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Originally posted by edsinger
Originally posted by goose
Most people overseas who live in countries that have universal health coverage only pays slightly higher taxes than we already do in the states.
Horse PUCKY - You had better check that one, we have the lowest taxes of the major industrialized countries (Oil emirates excluded of course). Our tax rate is far less and the Rich are now paying more of that burden.
Originally posted by goose
Personally I would rather pay a few dollars more in taxes than to know because of my greed a baby is sick and dying and can't get treatment because it was unfortuanate enough to be born poor. I'd rather pay a few dollars more to know a child or an elderly person is not starving in America.
Move to California where health care is free, unless you are a citizen, then you have to pay.
Try and get in an emergency room out there (I KNOW THIS ONE PERSONALLY), 4-5 hour wait because those illegals and those without insurance use it as a doctors office because they can not be turned away. The first sign of nationalized health care,
Second, go to Canada and ask them how great their system is. How many Canadians are driving south of the border to get quality health care here while passing US Seniors going north to buy drugs?
Move to France - Its nice there...
dneiwert.blogspot.com...
As a health-care-card-carrying Canadian resident and uninsured American citizen who regularly sees doctors on both sides of the border, I'm in a unique position to address the pros and cons of both systems first-hand. If the health-care debates are going to begin again in the US -- and it's way past high time they should -- then let's please start with actual facts, instead of ideological posturing, wishful thinking, hearsay, and random guessing about how things get done up here. Here are a few things y'all need to have the straight goods on before this goes any further.
Originally posted by dawnstar
he's paid taxes that helped others get that degree...now that they have it, well, he couldn't afford to provide healthcare simply bacause he was lazy and didn't plan........ungratefull idiots!!
Originally posted by edsinger
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Oh well, it amazes me the people that love the idea of "redistribution of wealth' without understanding that it kills incentive and rewards those that don't have initiative. That being said, I still want a safety net, I just think the Church's could handle it better than the super efficient government we have.
Originally posted by dawnstar
Soraia,
the problem isn't with our education, the problem lies in our value systems...our society wants the cashier, file clerks, the burger flippers, ect...but they fail to see their contribution to society as worthy of a living
wage...the people who do those jobs as worthy of life....
Originally posted by SoraiaI think that if you (or rather youth, especially from poor backgrounds) learned how banks work, how "money works", how mortgages and investments work, how stocks work, small business basics, leadership skills, and not just in University, where many young people miss out, but in steady sessions from their childhood up - then they would have a better chance of not being "suckered". And these kids that open up their own business, hopefully value their workers more...and the workers understand their value more, and refuse to work for that wage (way easier said than done, but you get my drift.)
Originally posted by edsinger
I can not disagree with what you wrote, we have serious problems. The point I try to make is government will NOT solve them, they have other interests. Take a look at what happened during the depression, the government helped by providing jobs, the feeding of the jobless was handled through other means.
You say there is a myth of the working poor, but yet confess to having to sell your truck to pay a hospital bill?
Your reasoning seems to be that you don't want to support the lazy no goods of the world, who also would benefit from this universal healthcare but, you forget that you, and your own children and grandchildren will also benefit from this, so in other words you would condemn your children and grandchildren to paying the ever increasing cost of healthcare, perhaps even do without needed healthcare due to the cost, than to see someone whom you consider lesser than you receiving the same benefits.
Originally posted by edsinger
Your reasoning seems to be that you don't want to support the lazy no goods of the world, who also would benefit from this universal healthcare but, you forget that you, and your own children and grandchildren will also benefit from this, so in other words you would condemn your children and grandchildren to paying the ever increasing cost of healthcare, perhaps even do without needed healthcare due to the cost, than to see someone whom you consider lesser than you receiving the same benefits.
All I am saying is universal health care will not work, it hasn't and it won't no matter what you liberals claim. How about for starters, we give some health care to US citizens instead of non-citizens. How about give it to those that follow the law rather than to those who don't.
If one is getting handouts from the taxpayer, then at least they should walk the streets collecting trash or something, sure there are cases that this would not work, but in most cases it would. Once they do this for a while I bet they would find a job.
Originally posted by dawnstarand there's one thing I am pretty sure of....the problem will never be addressed adequately as long as the problem is never seen for what it is!
Originally posted by goose
Have you ever lived in a country that has universal health care? It works in 24 of the 25 industrialized countries and we are the lone one that does not have it. Living in the USA without universal health care means your life span is shorter than it would be if you lived in a country with universal health care.
Originally posted by gooseBTW are you going to see the movie SICKO? I dare you to go and see it, though I seriously doubt you will, you are probably like every conservative out there who screams how much you do not feel universal health care will work, but refuse to go and see anything that is not put out by a conservative think tank on the subject.
Originally posted by gooseFor your families sake I hope you go see it and I also hope you realize that someday someone you love might be very affected by the lack of access to care in this country, not only are the 47 million people who have no insurance suffering, but some of the ones who have insurance are suffering by lack of access through being denied care because it is too costly to their insurance company.
www.msnbc.msn.com...
WASHINGTON - Even the military's best friends in Congress dressed down Army leaders over conditions at Walter Reed.
"It was a failure in the most basic tenets of command responsibility — to take care of our troops," said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., at Tuesday's hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Critics say part of the problem may be an Army decision last year to contract out maintenance and support at Walter Reed to a private company, even though government workers argued they could do it better, and for less.
Originally posted by gooseAs to the child left in your care, who got medical care through a state program similar to universal health care you complained about the wait because there was a waiting list of people in front of him, were these people less important or their health care issues less important than this child's because they got in line first?
Originally posted by gooseDo they complain about co-pays and high premiums? Do they complain about not having money to purchase their meds or the high cost of meds? Do they complain about not having health care coverage between jobs and waiting periods for coverage for certain things or not being able to leave their jobs due to not having coverage for pre-existing illnesses? Do they complain about not having access to health care coverage when they are laid off or lose their jobs?
Originally posted by edsinger
As for drugs, the US Government doesn't subsidize the industry like other nations. See AIRBUS
www.ahrp.org...
Who do you think are the major corporate benficiaries?
Why the "cash rich" pharmaceutical companies who shelter their foreign profits to avoid taxes: Merck has $15 billion in sheltered profits; Johnson & Johnson, $11 billion; Shering-Plough, $9.4 billion; Eli Lilly, $8 billion.... It is estimated that by the end of 2005 between $100 billion and $500 billion will be "repatriated."
The company's gain is the US Treasury's loss. This giveaway will allow companies to spend the money to buy other companies - resulting, no doubt, in job layoffs, as corporate acquisitions usually do. It will also provide even larger legal defense funds for drug companies whose unconscionable marketing practices - such as concealing hazardous drug effects while advertising the drugs' safety--have resulted in preventable deaths. What possible justification can there be for the government to reward - and thereby to encourage--corporate crimes?
Originally posted by goose
Well you forgot to say if you could have afforded to pay out of pocket for the child's care yourself, you just complained because it took too long, maybe it did take an unreasonable amount of time but at least his health care needs were eventually met.
Originally posted by gooseThat is better than my friend's mother who had cancer, she was denied a procedure by her insurance company that might have saved her life. She died.
Originally posted by goose
While you complain about the poor getting your tax dollars, and hear a lot about those neer do wells that take advantage of the system, you never hear success stories about how how much your tax dollars have helped the poor, in the mainstream media, you also very seldom hear about corporate welfare in the mainstream media. How fair and balanced is that?
Originally posted by goose
You don't think the government gives to the rich pharmaceutical industries? Over there in the countries that subsidizes the phamaceutical industry at least their tax payers gets cheap drugs, over here all we get is $0 for our tax dollars they get.