Destroying the ego

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by mysticnoon

 

I don't see it like that - I see him inviting people to glimpse the state of no mind.

Yes, that is what he is doing, but what is the implied context? If there is no greater context, then the "state of no mind" is being promoted as the ultimate end in itself, and this is a very definite philosophy or spiritual teaching.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by mysticnoon

 

I don't see it like that - I see him inviting people to glimpse the state of no mind.

Yes, that is what he is doing, but what is the implied context? If there is no greater context, then the "state of no mind" is being promoted as the ultimate end in itself, and this is a very definite philosophy or spiritual teaching.

It is an experiential thing. When experienced it is no longer a philosophy or spiritual practice.
Mind is an appearance that can disappear - when it stops there is something there underneath, it is rarely noticed.
The mind is content but what contains it?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It is an experiential thing. When experienced it is no longer a philosophy or spiritual practice.

Well, regardless of whether you experience this "no mind" state or not, there is still someone who shows/invites/demonstrates how this may be achieved.

I am not saying that having a teacher is a negative thing, in fact I am of the belief that a teacher is essential in matters of a spiritual nature.

What I am curious about is the context in which this "no mind" is being taught. Is there a sign on the door which says, "enter all ye who wish to experience no-mind"? Or, what?

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It is an experiential thing. When experienced it is no longer a philosophy or spiritual practice.

Well, regardless of whether you experience this "no mind" state or not, there is still someone who shows/invites/demonstrates how this may be achieved.

I am not saying that having a teacher is a negative thing, in fact I am of the belief that a teacher is essential in matters of a spiritual nature.

What I am curious about is the context in which this "no mind" is being taught. Is there a sign on the door which says, "enter all ye who wish to experience no-mind"? Or, what?

Who knows what makes them go to these meetings? I have no idea what they think they are looking for. It happened here without any prior teaching quite unexpectedly so I don't know if it can be learned - although I have seen many who spread the message show people the 'place' - I see the look and know they see it - however it is only a glimpse for them and maybe that is why they go - it is addictive. Once tasted it becomes what they seek.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
What I am curious about is the context in which this "no mind" is being taught. Is there a sign on the door which says, "enter all ye who wish to experience no-mind"? Or, what?

I just want to add that no one can have 'no mind'. The speaking mind will speak when it does.
There are many who are tortured by their mind - when laying down to go to sleep - it keeps them awake. Many people commit suicide because they cannot live with themselves. Maybe this is why they want to still the incessant chatter.
Once the mind is seen for what it is, it will not have the power it once had.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Thanks, itsnowagain, your last two posts have helped clarify much of this for me. I'll try and lay off the interrogation, for now. :

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Thanks, itsnowagain, your last two posts have helped clarify much of this for me. I'll try an lay off the interrogation, for now. :

You are welcome and I welcome all questions.
All is welcome.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It is an experiential thing. When experienced it is no longer a philosophy or spiritual practice.

Well, regardless of whether you experience this "no mind" state or not, there is still someone who shows/invites/demonstrates how this may be achieved.

The 'no mind' state is what I am so I cannot experience it - it is what experiences. It experiences mind along with other appearances. What appears and disappears is not what I am. I am aware of all that comes and goes - including thoughts, sensations - anything that is moving or changing is not what I essentially am.
It is all about knowing thyself - with nothing extra added.

reply to post by mysticnoon


Teacher or not, you have got to do it all by yourself. And within yourself lies the way to it. You are your own guide. A teacher of that subject can only relate to the experiences and can tell what to mind, But yourself is the guide to it. And I think, a teacher is still on the path, so then you are as much of a teacher too. Guidance, guidance, guidance. Follow the within. One allready has got it.

The road can be weird sometimes. It would be good if others notice what you need and offer it to you. Conflicts on the road which seem to have been silly when one reaches the essence of it. Live and let live. Observe, forgive, go on.

But hell things can get bad.. like getting stuck for weeks. I don't know..

This is Bluesma. Since I am not at home, I am having to use an older account.

The state of no mind is, as far as I experience. My years of spiritual searching, from childhood on up came to that experience at the core- a cosmic bely laugh realization- you become aware of this different levels of self until one day you get to the point when you realize that there is No Thing. There is only the endless potential of everything in nothing.

This was not taught to me by anyone, though I think it was in meditation that I came upon it .
I also think that it is good no one told me this, because it would have been almost incomprehensible to me (it is not communicable in linear language- for language requires useage of thought form and separation),
and because the journey getting to that point was necessary for me. It would have encouraged me to stop my searching.

In that process lay important discoveries, that I would have missed if I had skipped it.

At that point it is like your energy changes direction....as if it was going uphill, or within for years, then you get to the top, and there is just back down to go- having FUN with it. Having fun creating self, creating experience.
Because there just is nothing else to do. You can't stop being aware of those other levels of 'self which isn't', so it is not a danger to delve down into the world of matter and separation.

It is in that process getting there though that I learned a lot about the different levels of existence and process of creating, to use then!

Like in the question of a particular teaching, and how to choose one- the criteria for me is- what kind of experience does it generate? -for that, I look at the ones already using that structure/tool.

It is not about finding 'truth'- the biggest truth is that there is nothing. It is about choosing tools which are appropriate and efficient for your intended next experience.

I look at people who have that belief and what kinds of reactions, subconscious associations, behaviors and emotions they experience regularly.

But the creating is not done to flee matter, separation, emotions- nor violence hostility war......... anyone here have experience in theater? Some of the best parts to have are the character parts- the villains, the nut cases, the antagonists! And while you are on the stage, you ARE in that universe, you are that character- your automatic reflexes will even spring from that personality (even off stage). That character becomes a part of you later, it is integrated into the whole of self..... as another facet become self aware.
But it is for fun in creating experience.

How popular are video games with NO bad guys, NO danger, no challenges???? I think that is a clue that the soul, as it forms itself, searches all types of experience with no preference.

As far as role playing as tool in creating experience (using the aid of another) it can be very useful for some types of experience. I do not say anyone HAS to do so, I only said you can if you want, and you don't have to if you don't want to! You have choice. It is not a serious dramatic question with thrilling music in the background (Attack of The Mind Eaters) , it is just a friendly reminder- you can choose your next role.

If you want to learn a particular art or skill, for example, the role playing of master/student can be useful.
But even that is a relation that requires a high level of trust and respect on eqch persons part, because things like obedience and interdependence enter into it, one starts from a position of CHOOSING that relationship.

The experience of being a passive, submissive, receptical, inferior, student is temporary, and the persons power is returned to them after- they re-integrate the power they projected onto the other like a loan. They become the dominant the master, of themselves again, but in the style that the other person was.


Like in the example of someone who had an abusive authority figure when young- later that same figure exists within them, they reintegrated it. It can either continue to abuse them inside, or it can be projected upon another ( getting into abusive relationships) or the passive side projected on another (you being the abuser powerful).

In a role play of master/student with a different person, who has a different style of power, less abusive, one can integrate a different form of power expression.

Without the role play or relations it is possible up to a point- but the body will usually not be as receptive to the imaginary example. Physical movement and conditioning play an important part in character development.

(this probably has tons of typos, I apologize. The american key board, I am no longer used to!)

Originally posted by Itisnowagain


I am sorry - I have never seen you reference Eric Berne or his work (so no I was not joking) - maybe you could link me to one of those posts so I can read your assessment on his work and findings.
'Transactional Analysis' is a tool that therapists use in their work- I don't see it as a 'theory'.

And I had not heard the word 'Dianetics' until I read your post. I have looked it up and it is something to do with scientology - it has no connection to what I am pointing at.

edit on 4-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I can't have access to my account, which would give me access to all the posts I have written in which I brought the subject of Berne and transactional analysis. It must be a coincidence then- I thought it might be one of those cases in which someone uses sarcasm, and I don't get it because of the lack of voice and body language here.


It most certainly IS a theory (not in the say that word is used in hard sciences- as a verifiably proven fact, but theory as applied in soft sciences such as Philosophy and Psychoanalysis).

-And as I have explained repeatedly, a theory IS a tool. I even use the two terms interchangeably when it comes to metaphysical subjects. Your theory you choose to hold about existence, about self/other, about awareness, relation, will profoundly shape your experience of these things.

I only mention Dianetics (which was a theory about the mind, the way it associates thought and emotion to sensual events, particularly hearing words) was just to illustrate that I do not place Bern alone as a mind who got "carried away' after saying 'Here is the structure of what is.......' went on into "Here is what one should do about it......"

There are many many examples of that sort (for each psychoanalyst forms not only their structure theory but the hypothesis on what would be the ideal way to interact within that structure). I only chose the example because so many people have already heard of Scientology, and the extent to which it eventually went haywire is highly publicized.

Maybe if I'd refered to Freud or Sartre that would have been more easily recognized?

I have been highly instilled with a structure of psychoanalysis which has the particularity of using philosophy as a base, and self determinism as part of the therapeutic base (dad is most well known for his particular style on that)
so I will gladly concede that I tend to gravitate strongly towards ideas which encourage that.

Quoting Bluesma:

"The state of no mind is, as far as I experience. My years of spiritual searching, from childhood on up came to that experience at the core- a cosmic bely laugh realization- you become aware of this different levels of self until one day you get to the point when you realize that there is No Thing. There is only the endless potential of everything in nothing.

This was not taught to me by anyone, though I think it was in meditation that I came upon it .
I also think that it is good no one told me this, because it would have been almost incomprehensible to me (it is not communicable in linear language- for language requires useage of thought form and separation), and because the journey getting to that point was necessary for me. It would have encouraged me to stop my searching. "

I, too, spent years searching all the facets of my 'self'; psychological, reasoning out different ways of labelling self, or finding old self, new self, etc. But, that was the intellect searching, once I started deep meditation then, too, like you, I found the 'no mind' the 'nothingness', then everything became clear to me. I own my life's journey, I am the Captain of my own ship, so to coin a phrase.

Still, I cannot explain completely this realization of the truth, my truth, what really is. But, you, Bluesma, have done an excellent job at explaining reaching the top, having that belly laugh, then returning to enrich your 'self' with all the experiences that you will allow.