Nazi Style Raids. Boston Bombing. Video Going Viral.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by PutAQuarterIn
Off topic post:
I wonder what the dog was getting a hit on. Police dogs don't yap for no reason. Seemed to be on the last person out of the house. Could be sniffing drugs, which if the case would beg another question...Why have drug sniffing dogs (if that's what it is) I understand bomb sniffing being there, but I get the feeling that was a drug dog.

When dogs find something they find it, and sit. Its not Lassie or K-9 the movie.

And the barking dog was a resident morons. Watch the video again.

Definition of Jack Booted Thugs

reply to post by ZombieWoof


hey I just answered the guy - dont shoot the messenger

I can't wait to see what other Boston residents have on video from the lockdown. Every new photo and video I see outrages me more than the last. For anyone who thinks having police, military, etc. BANG on your door, YELL at you to put YOUR (innocent) HANDS UP, then have them GRAB your arm to direct you where to wait, all the while surrounded by uniformed men with really BIG GUNS (some POINTED AT YOU) is O K ?!?!!!!! I would like to see how YOU would handle that. Something tells me you wouldn't be saying "Why thank you officers! I was just NOT really sure if there was a terrorist hiding in my underwear drawer."

This whole thing makes my stomach turn. So many people say "I wouldn't let them in, they won't do that in my town, not at my house" bla bla bla... But I don't honestly think that I would be brave enough to say "No. You are violating my rights." I think if that was my house, all those guys with those guns, I'd be terrified. And I bet most of the people in lockdown town probably felt exactly that way. I'm sure THEY knew no one was hiding in their homes. But still they opened their doors and complied. Now the authorities can be sure, they CAN DO THIS AGAIN....

reply to post by Hopechest


Do you really believe that if the Jewish people hadn't opened their doors it would have stopped anything?

Jackbooted thugs are jackbooted thugs, and I doubt that refusal would be met with 'OK M'am/Sir, sorry to have bothered you', particularly in Germany/Occupied Europe at that time

Originally posted by BriGuyTM90
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

To be honest with you. I would have put a Note/sign on my front door saying that no LEOs have permission to be on my property and there is no constant for unwarranted searches of my premises. If they still did it I would get an attorney. I understand that a lot of people probably didn't realize what was going on, but that's why you need to stay informed and be aware of your rights. As soon as those people opened their door and a officer put their foot in it they gave up their rights.

Excellent idea. I like it. My biggest, hugest, most makes my teeth grit problem with this video was how each and every one of those people were treated like suspects and not what they actually were--residents. Once upon a time, I was staying up at my dad's home and was there alone with my little then 5 year old daughter. Big home out in the country, very nice neighborhood, lots of big glass windows. My daughter was munching on a peanut butter sandwich in the kitchen and I was upstairs when I started hearing vicious pounding on the door. Crept downstairs and peeked out to see a couple of men who immediately started screaming at me to come out and that they saw me. I did what any woman does when they live out in the middle of the country and have a couple guys trying to beat down the front door. I ran to my daughter in the kitchen. They gave chase and came to the back door where I was holding my now extremely terrified and crying daughter, only to start screaming some more. Then they saw her and realized that they didn't have their badges out. They were still stuck in their polos. Yep, plain clothed police officers, no apparent badges, screaming and yelling at me through the windows without identifying themselves at all. I signaled to them to meet at the front door where I proceeded to rip them both new orifices. I chewed them out and laid out how we perceived them, making sure to drill home that we were just a mother and a 5 year old at home, ALONE. The kicker, the grievous crime that had been committed that apparently warranted such an approach? The kid that my dad paid to take our garbage to the dump decided to pocket the cash and dumped the garbage onto somebody else's property illegally. Yep, investigating illegal dumping. Nice, eh?

I can understand that police officers are having to work a whole lot of shifts these days due to budget cuts. I can also understand that they do have pretty scary jobs. I can also see how the combination of the two can make an almost toxic combination to make them a little more ruthless, edgy--whatever. However, when I see a video like this, seen the pictures of them rolling out their police parade with all of their shiny toys in Watertown, and have experienced the above because of illegal dumping (lol...), I think of one thing--the Stanford Prison Experiment. At some point, one can get very sick with power and feeling like you control the world. That's a big, big problem when a police officer in a position of power--or an entire force-- starts seeing everybody as a hostile suspect.

"Just following orders"

Giving consent, or under duress?

The video says house-to-house raids but that one house seems to have been singled out. Were they known to be friends of the suspects, or was the whole neighborhood searched in this manner? It appears they had an interest in this one particular home for some reason.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice

Originally posted by BriGuyTM90
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

To be honest with you. I would have put a Note/sign on my front door saying that no LEOs have permission to be on my property and there is no constant for unwarranted searches of my premises. If they still did it I would get an attorney. I understand that a lot of people probably didn't realize what was going on, but that's why you need to stay informed and be aware of your rights. As soon as those people opened their door and a officer put their foot in it they gave up their rights.

Excellent idea. I like it. My biggest, hugest, most makes my teeth grit problem with this video was how each and every one of those people were treated like suspects and not what they actually were--residents. .

Yes, the way those people were treated was appalling and I would never wan't to be treated the same way. That's why I would never allow military or police into my house and would tell them to leave immediately if they came on my property. I'm not saying its these peoples fault they were treated like that but that's what I would have done. I'm sorry to hear about you and your daughter, it sounds horrifying. I personally would have filed a complaint against them so maybe they would think twice about similar situations.

Yeah, I'm sorry about our experience, too. Took several years to teach my daughter, despite the sticker, that the police were not something to be afraid of after and I actually cited the fact that I had made a point of teaching my daughter to have some appreciation for the jobs they do, right to their faces. I have a really, almost perverse knack of verbally destroying people when I see fit. Was definitely outside of my normal experience. Only citation I've ever had has been for jaywalking (and that got thrown out lol). _javascript:external()My SO studied criminal justice and remarked that there have been studies done that highlighted the bias that officers show between middle to upper middle class women v. lower class women and how they treated the former better than the latter--so definite issues with equality in terms of economics. Considering I was in a multimillion dollar home, I guess they opted to correct that by treating everybody like hostile suspects to some heinous crime. At least it's equal now, right?


First couple minutes of this was really interesting to watch, including the news anchor's description of it. What really stuck out to me was his "rescuing people....at the end of a muzzle". Been skimming through the op-ed pieces discussing this subject and most of them, no great surprise, attempt to validate the incident--including the cost to the city. I recall the estimate of the cost of Oakland bringing out all of their shiny toys against protestors as being over $1 million. Similarly, that was probably the economic cost of what went down in Boston as well--all for a 19 year old kid. These articles excuse the exorbitant cost. Whereas I can see the helicopters as being very pertinent to a manhunt, what baffled me was seeing their cute little tanks topped off with a SWAT officer sitting up top with a big gun. That was significant overkill. I can find rational reason for using those.

One of the things that the articles cite is that schools are frequently placed on lock down as a validation for what occurred in Boston and this is true--schools do get placed on lockdown when there is a perceived threat to the children and staff within. That's been a scenario that has happened since the string of school shootings in the 90's. However, in a city setting, we have shootings (ie drive by) that occur all the time and our cities don't get locked down. Whereas I get the difference between a drive by gang related shooting having a specific target and the awareness that Dzhokhar could target anyone, I don't recall this occurring when Timothy McVeigh was on the loose after the OKC bombing, which killed 168 people and injured 800. Comparing it to a school lockdown is so wrong on many counts. For one thing, kids don't have heavily armored police officers ordering them to hold their hands up at the end of a muzzle and they sure as hell don't have tanks driving through the school halls either. Not the same but hey, it "validates" it, right?

I think that the biggest problem is that we do have a serious problem with our police forces becoming a. too militarized and b. deciding that we're all potential hostiles. When I went to the USSR, a girl I met there had had her apartment burgled and she told me that she didn't call the police. I was so shocked to hear that and she explained that, even though she does nothing wrong, she was afraid that the police would decide that they didn't like her or something in her home and that she would disappear. Basically, the police had so much power and authority that they could do anything. So, we're not quite at communist USSR or Nazi Germany levels but I really don't like the progression things seem to be taking as it does feel like it's heading in that direction. It's not good. Police are supposed to take an oath to protect and serve the public. Not bully and terrify.

Originally posted by BriGuyTM90
Did anyone refuse their house being search? Did the cops make a forceful entry if they did? If all of this was voluntary then the people chose to give up their rights. But like I said if they couldn't and they still did then I would have a problem. That's the thing with cops as soon as you give them permission to come into your house they can and will do as they please.

edit on 22-4-2013 by BriGuyTM90 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-4-2013 by BriGuyTM90 because: (no reason given)

given the situation, even if those people would have denied to have their homes entered...they would have had their doors kicked in anyway...

it is hilarious how they agree to have their homes invaded, with the false illusion that they could say "no" if they really wanted to..

there is no saying no to the gestapo

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hopechest
I see nothing illegal there.

Apparently the people consented to a search, which is their right.

Consent:

Voluntarily acquiescing or complying with a request, by someone of sufficient mental capacity; a decision made in the absence of coercion or duress. Whether or not a party has given voluntary consent is determined by the totality of the circumstances.ht. I didn't see anyone breaking down any doors.

Oh you see nothing wrong?

I'm ex military... as a civilian I see a LOT OF WRONG with having an armored vehicle with gun turret, military patrolling the streets going door to door with that kind of gear, and going through the neighbourhood with a loudspeaker telling citizens to keep inside and to shut their windows, while 2 guys are camping the roof of an outhouse with their rifles pointed at the entrance while the rest of their team goes into a civilian's house. What is this?

To be honest... my thoughts? As a civilian - I thought... silenced scoped rifle, while whole team goes in, pick one of the outhouse. If possible - take second. Lay low - if possible underground - logistics and supplies would be required of course, and since many american civilians have that sort of equipment and infrastructures as private, it would be easily achieved. Team comes back out - what? Thats actually what they deserve - I think if they do that one more time the american people should do something - Not a revolution, but a "lesson", an "example" so to speak. As military - I would actually refuse to be a part of an operation like that - court martial - sure. Me against my own? Thats not my oath, I'm sorry. I would never turn against my people, it would be easier for me to turn against my government, since they come and go, and to which I dont owe anything, and that screw us over and over again... I rather protect my people from the government.

What are you, crazy? Give yourself in for a concentration camp, but not others. Only your life is yours, not anybody else's. Keep that rhetoric to yourself or you may actually convince others to think like you - that way of thinking is dangerous because it tends to be contagious and later it ends up with people denouncing their own neighbours, friends and even family.

Accepting that sort of behaviour isnt even natural by ANY means or reasons - I dont care if Freddy Krueger, Jason Vorhees and Michael Myers are all having a killing spree in the same city at the same time.

wow, beautifully said..too bad that there aren't many people who think like you..otherwise there would have been a revolution a long time ago..but im glad to see some people still with the spirit of freedom and courage around...

my new motto is


"when freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will be free"...

Holy hell. Do I really have to point out the blatant difference in the OP? Nazis raided to find undesirable people to be sent to death camps. Police conduct raids to find terrorist who are known to be armed and dabble with explosives so they can be taken into court of justice.
This kind of comparison is blatant insult to anyone who was touched by the ww2 atrocities.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by BriGuyTM90
Did anyone refuse their house being search? Did the cops make a forceful entry if they did? If all of this was voluntary then the people chose to give up their rights. But like I said if they couldn't and they still did then I would have a problem. That's the thing with cops as soon as you give them permission to come into your house they can and will do as they please.

edit on 22-4-2013 by BriGuyTM90 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-4-2013 by BriGuyTM90 because: (no reason given)

Pretty much.

Its interesting that this is being compared to a Nazi raid, imagine if all the Jews simply didn't open their doors. The holocaust never would have happened.

Ummm, no the holocaust surely still would have happened. A door isn't reliable at all to save your life. If you didn't open the door, then they would find a way to open it themselves. And if they had to come in on their own terms, their going to search the house top to bottom before they left. The nazi's would go into jewish temples and take the lists of the jews that go there. On top of that, all jews were ordered to wear gold stars. Basically all jews made no effort to conceal their identities, becuase they had no idea the nazi's would start rounding them up and ship them to work camps/death camps. The only way for the holocaust to have never happened, is if EVERY jew somehow knew in advance the holocaust would happen, not a door...

Should've never opened that door. Looks like they give up their rights out of fear of a gun pointed at them. I'm pretty sure one of these homeowners will sue the city at least for a public apology and financial compensation. All I hear is cha-ching when I see this video from a litigious perspective. People need to read their Constitution.

Lol, HopeChest would be the one to say the homeowners consented to the search.

reply to post by S3rvoV3ritas


It might just be that the video footage does not tell the full story here, ( As is often discovered, as events unravel.)

Also, too much emotive language used to generate what may turn out to be misplaced anger at the security agency involved here ?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Holy hell. Do I really have to point out the blatant difference in the OP? Nazis raided to find undesirable people to be sent to death camps. Police conduct raids to find terrorist who are known to be armed and dabble with explosives so they can be taken into court of justice.
This kind of comparison is blatant insult to anyone who was touched by the ww2 atrocities.

I don't think that the OP was quite making that comparison but was comparing it to the Nazis raiding homes, heavily armed, and doing searches of the premises without warrants (actually if you think about it, the raid and search depicted in Inglorious Bastards at the beginning was done with infinitely more politeness ). Yeah, they were look for an undesirable--a suspect of a pretty nasty bombing and shoot out--but it still doesn't take away the fact that what you see in the video is basically a bunch of heavily armed men ordering homeowners out of their homes at gun point like they are somehow hardened criminals. Without a doubt, WW2 is associated with terrible atrocities. I was good friends with a Rabbi and concentration camp survivor and without a doubt, "Nazi" is a term that is generally bandied about, overused, and improperly used in appalling ways. Having been in East Germany where you still had gestapo like activities, I don't think it's such a bad comparison this time. E. German guards were pretty touchy and had very big guns, too.

with all the news about cops shooting innocent people it must be shocking for some around here to not see anything like that happen in Boston.

and c'mon people.. nazi searches really..

they couldn't do this across the USA in 1 day, if it happens city by city start to worry. they only searched a small area of watertown and MA is a very small place. if i was 'testing' it would be a horrible test since not all communities will react the same

Originally posted by Hopechest
I see nothing illegal there.

Apparently the people consented to a search, which is their right.

Consent:

Voluntarily acquiescing or complying with a request, by someone of sufficient mental capacity; a decision made in the absence of coercion or duress. Whether or not a party has given voluntary consent is determined by the totality of the circumstances.ht. I didn't see anyone breaking down any doors.

You see nothing wrong? Are you delusional?

First of all this is not consent at all. Consent is having a police officer knock at your door and ASK if he can have a look around, if you say yes then that is consent. However, if you say no, the officer CANNOT go into your home, unless he has a warrant.

You really think a handful of SWAT/Military geared up cops got a hold of a lightly armored vehicle, along with body armor, and assault rifles to simply walk around the neighborhood to ask people nicely to come in? Not a chance in hell. Using this equipment is saying that their going to force their way in, and expect that their may be conflict.

Yes nothing wrong here!!
This particular family called the cops to their house because they heard and saw suspicious things. So this does not show or proof that this was done to every single home. As for the manor in which they are taken out of their homes all I see is professionals being cautious because they dont know if any of them could be a suspect or wrapped with explosives.

This is clearly not a house to house search. This is a focus on this home alone. No idea if it was in Boston or had anything to do with the bombing. So commenting on the video is pointless.

What do we know about the house to house searches? That people who have talked say they gave permission. Nobody has come foward yet to say they denied permission and their house was searched anyway. The ACLU so far has found no 4th amendment violations but, are asking people to report any. Until some one comes forward and complains we really have nothing to go on. Also the Nazi reference in the title is just pathetic.