'Free Jahar:' Boston bomb suspect's cult following

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth

 

Will these people still stand behind this man if he's proven guilty? (In my mind, I've no doubt he's guilty).

regardless he still did it. Let's say the anti-government, anti-american extremists have it right. That the CIA or FBI convinced him to do the act. How does that make him any less culpable for his actions anyways? Fact is - it doesn't. He's still responsible for his own actions - whether it was following his brother, a terrorist cell, or even our government's orders.

Wow, I am amazed by your comment. You are more concerned about making a man answer for his role in murdering people with a pressure cooker - than making our government accountable for its role in murdering those people by using We-The-People's military that is equipped with drones, armored vehicles and crooked secret service agencies?

IMO, you are buying into the paranoia generated by the media that the greatest threat to our lifes is, being killed by a terrorist.

edit on 23-4-2013 by ThinkingHuman because: (no reason given)

About 3 days ago I had the same conversation with a friend, it went no-where ..

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth

 

I already stated the answer to you questions.

Not to my satisfaction though, sorry. And I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are.

By contacting your elected representation and making your stance known. If that doesn't work, then get a large, large group of people who agree with you that this is a false flag and march.

You believe that marching would work? To accomplish what? That the government will appoint an independent investigation?

Do you not see the self-contradiction? How can it be independent if it is government appointed?

So go ahead, continue fighting wars and have your kids fight wars that were started as a result of a false flag. Continue giving away your civil liberties according to the laws that they pass nowadays (such as CISPA).

Young people are not any worse than the previous generation. Don't blame it on them.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Well then, what is your suggestion?

Violence to make the change you want?

I'm a law-abiding citizen. The only thing I have to make my voice know, is that which was set out before me to make it know. Free speech and the right to peaceful protestation. I'm proud of my country and my constitution - and yes - I know there are problems in government. Greed and corruption - but that is NOT our soldiers, police officers, or average government worker. They are fellow Americans, just like me, with the same hopes of a bright and full future.

We've had several protests in my state. Right here in the city I live. If I agree with their stance, I join them. I'm not joining you all on this one. This was two men - with extremist religious views - willing to do violence on innocent people. You stand behind that if you wish - but I will not.

ETA - Oh and it's not all of our youth - but all of our youth is exposed to propaganda from both sides. Not just our government - but extremist/terrorist propaganda to. If you stand with extremist views - you will always be the minority and the majority will always stand against you. In my opinion. Majority rules. That's always been the law of the land, since we began.

Cirque

Originally posted by buddhasystem

 

I can tell you why I am paranoid. I think that knowledge is a valuable part of human culture, and I hold it in high respect. I also see that some of the visitors coming here to this site may not have a lot of pre-existing knowledge or info and they mine ATS for that. For those people whose critical thinking skills are not the best, it then becomes a dreadful source of disinfo.

You are paranoid because some visitors may not have a lot of pre-existing knowledge? I am not a doctor but maybe you should stop reading ATS after all because this is unlikely to change.

Especially, if you consider ATS becoming "a dreadful source of disinfo".

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


Sadly I think you don't comprehend the scope of the deception. You take things superficially without digging enough. It is ok, I guess we all have our bias, but I try very hard NOT to let that get in the way as often as possible.

Someone tells me there is a ufo outside, I will go look. You would probably say "yeah right". It is called conditioning. Saying the government is corrupt is generic and could mean anything like "obama is not an american citizen(which is needed to become potus) OR it could mean "masons, big business, aliens control the government indirectly".

There is A WORLD of difference to what some are willing to believe. Ron Paul is not much more "hope and change" than Obama is. Just a mild improvement. Heck I don't expect miracles though like voting libertarian or constitution or green party anytime soon.

Be careful or the may arrest them all. You see, the ATF is tying to have sweeping powers to look at all of your social media legally. If you are a 'friend' with a known 'suspect' you can then be suspected also. See how this works....This started to come about after Sandy Hook.

You all remember him tweeting/updating Facebook. Get ready for an attack on internet rights and lo and behold, we have one...

Internet Tax, Yeah, just like Obamacare was for medical reasons. Every time I go back to NY I argue with the 9/11 # bags that protest in the street. This was NOT a false flag people. People are dead. A college
resource officer was shot in cold blood. They used IED's in the streets of the US during a gun battle. In fear, he ran over his brotherr to escape. If he did not o anything, he should have given up and not tried to take off his own head in a botched suicide attempt. Did we all miss this???

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by buddhasystem

 

I can tell you why I am paranoid. I think that knowledge is a valuable part of human culture, and I hold it in high respect. I also see that some of the visitors coming here to this site may not have a lot of pre-existing knowledge or info and they mine ATS for that. For those people whose critical thinking skills are not the best, it then becomes a dreadful source of disinfo.

You are paranoid because some visitors may not have a lot of pre-existing knowledge?

I believe you failed to make the necessary logical connection in what I posted.

Especially, if you consider ATS becoming "a dreadful source of disinfo".

Are you saying that the Moon has breathable air, and that the government is hard at work trying to poison the skies with chemtrails?

Originally posted by esdad71
Be careful or the may arrest them all. You see, the ATF is tying to have sweeping powers to look at all of your social media legally. If you are a 'friend' with a known 'suspect' you can then be suspected also. See how this works....This started to come about after Sandy Hook.

You all remember him tweeting/updating Facebook. Get ready for an attack on internet rights and lo and behold, we have one...

Internet Tax, Yeah, just like Obamacare was for medical reasons. Every time I go back to NY I argue with the 9/11 # bags that protest in the street. This was NOT a false flag people. People are dead. A college
resource officer was shot in cold blood. They used IED's in the streets of the US during a gun battle. In fear, he ran over his brotherr to escape. If he did not o anything, he should have given up and not tried to take off his own head in a botched suicide attempt. Did we all miss this???

edit on 23-4-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)

If you were setup, then what would you do? I am not convinced 100% if it was inside or outside job. All I know is that inside job holds more water over outside job in the big picture. Taking everything into account, not just the chase itself.

Closing down the entire city for days, for two suspects, is enormous red flag that everyone should agree to, regardless of anything else. This alone almost entirely convinces me of inside job.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth

 

Well then, what is your suggestion?

Violence to make the change you want?

I'm a law-abiding citizen. The only thing I have to make my voice know, is that which was set out before me to make it know. Free speech and the right to peaceful protestation. I'm proud of my country and my constitution - and yes - I know there are problems in government. Greed and corruption - but that is NOT our soldiers, police officers, or average government worker. They are fellow Americans, just like me, with the same hopes of a bright and full future.

Why is it so difficult to have a discussion with you? You can ask me another 16 times, my answer will still be that I am not advocating violence.

You amaze me again. Now you say that you are "proud of my country and my constitution". Why, if you reckon that they participated in instigating the Boston bombing, would you be proud of them - and not be disgusted as much as we both are with the two individuals?

Our police officers, FBI to be precise, are the ones who provided the explosives for the 1993 World Trade Center New York bombs. Court records prove that. Do you believe only the muslim terrorists should be held accountable for the event, not the ones in the FBI?

If you served in Vietnam and you reckon that the Gulf of Tonkin event never happened, and the people you treated and buried for a big fat lie, you still are proud?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Thank you for your well thought out post EarthCitizen.

As to knowing how deep the deception goes - I'm aware our government does things that are down right sadistic. They knew that plane was off course and going to hit the towers. So what could they do? Shoot the plane down from the sky? Imagine the reaction that would have caused? I'm still not going to pick up a gun and shoot anyone who doesn't agree with my stance or because they work for government. I'm worried - because I watched them try the rally a cry of war - seconds after this happened. Moments. Already - before knowing any facts - this was a false flag. That says a LOT in my opinion.

Now I'm aware, many of the rally cries didn't even start in American - they started from people who don't even live here in America. Using the internet as their tool. I think they thought they'd achieve it. And I have to laugh - that they really thought THAT many people were on their side. They were started by people in other countries - who would find pleasure in seeing America dissolve into anarchy and innocent people dying. They hate us. I get it. I'm just making my stance known. I don't buy into the extremist propaganda, and those in America with dreams of starting a civil war - I won't stand with you either. If it happens, I'll bunker down and hold out - or go to my people and nurse the wounded - from BOTH sides.

Cirque

Originally posted by Moshpet
Likely, it's the same sort of people that think PFC Manning didn't break the laws either.
The level of denial and insanity of those sorts escapes me.
M.

Ah, I would be one of those who believes this young man is guilty, but that Manning shouldn't be facing the charges he is.

Both instances offer me the chance to point out why - personal responsibility.

Whether the suspect was persuaded into it or not, he is seemingly responsible for those deaths and injuries. He has no defence, because he had free will and was able to not act in such a violent way.

In a similar manner, no serving military person can disown their own responsibility. If a commander orders you to shoot an unarmed child in the head, you can claim you were ordered to do it, but you still had free will and you still made the choice to follow an order you knew to be wrong.

That's kind of the deal with Manning, he knew there was evidence of wrongdoing, and he signed up to serve HIS COUNTRY, not cover the asses of a corrupt leadership.

You should be damn lucky you have people like him serving in the military, ready to blow the whistle on the corruption and criminality of your armed forces. Without people like that willing to risk themselves to get the truth out there, you wouldn't know anything about the torture US serving marines were guilty of.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

 

Closing down the entire city for days, for two suspects, is enormous red flag that everyone should agree to, regardless of anything else. This alone almost entirely convinces me of inside job.

Next time it may be a terror group of 6 individuals and the DHS may have to declare martial law for the whole country. And nobody can go back to work until all 6 have been apprehended. the new normal.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


There is video footage from fox news, early on and then never played again, that two cargo/military remote controlled planes hit the twin towers early in the morning and that a missle hit the pentagon later on. The officials themselves slipped up a couple of times in saying "missile" rather than plane, and later corrected themselves. Plus we have the chief of american intelligence hinting at inside job as well.

The arabs don't hate us for the sake of hating us. They didn't hate us before 9-11 either, well maybe the ones who hate israel do and because we support them, but they are a minority. We have established bases on their soil just like the british and french colonials did before us. I think they have REASON to dislike/hate us. Does the media talk about that though? NO!

As for the make believe patriots "the black helicopter crowd" I wish they knew what the hell they stand for, other than guns and more guns. Fake patriots are pathetic!

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Hun, it's because I'm still angry. I'm still upset. This bombing hit me a little harder than some. I've my experiences. Personal ones. So my emotions are very high. Come this time in a few weeks, once I've worked through some of the personal issues it's raised - I'll be able to settle and have a better debate.

As to - what our government does. I was taught long ago - that our government does the same things we THINK only other countries do. I know that. I agree their are questions that our leaders need to be held accountable for - but I'm not going to encourage or condone violence to get to the bottom of it! I don't know how to fix the government. But I agree that the questions you raised in the post I'm responding to - need to be answered. How to get to those answers and hold people accountable. I don't know. But I won't entertain any form of violence - as a potential way.

Cirque

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

 

Closing down the entire city for days, for two suspects, is enormous red flag that everyone should agree to, regardless of anything else. This alone almost entirely convinces me of inside job.

Next time it may be a terror group of 6 individuals and the DHS may have to declare martial law for the whole country. And nobody can go back to work until all 6 have been apprehended. the new normal.

The government can use a plethora of threats such as imminent north korean attack, imminent muslim attack, biological and chemical attacks, aliens enmasse are expected, yellowstone errupting, the west coast experiencing large earthquakes, etc.

OR as you said 6 make-belive terrorists. If an actual threat does not exist, I think we can count on them creating it.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by buddhasystem

 

I can tell you why I am paranoid... some of the visitors coming here to this site may not have a lot of pre-existing knowledge

You are paranoid because some visitors may not have a lot of pre-existing knowledge?

I believe you failed to make the necessary logical connection in what I posted.

I quoted YOUR words. And you can't understand them yourself?

Especially, if you consider ATS becoming "a dreadful source of disinfo".

Are you saying that the Moon has breathable air, and that the government is hard at work trying to poison the skies with chemtrails?

So you start talking about the moon and breathable and chemtrails? If you have a point about those topics, then link me that thread is because this is not the correct one.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


If I was set up I would walk in. I would leave some evidence before I did. I would not engage LEO's with IED's.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Moshpet
Likely, it's the same sort of people that think PFC Manning didn't break the laws either.
The level of denial and insanity of those sorts escapes me.

Sadly, yes.

Some people are cold dead stupid. Many of them are also on ATS. After you read that Moon in fact has a breathable atmosphere and this fact is concealed by the government, or that HAARP caused an earthquake, and of course the evil chemtrails in the skies produced by the evil government... Jokhar's innocence does not seem like a big stretch, never mind he was in a fire fight with the cops... It was a holographic projection, perhaps...

I bet you never listen to aljazera or russia today either. You are using strawman arguemnts to discredit the boston bombings which I consider low class. As for the level of deception you would never know that aliens exist at area 51 or dulce considering your *I know everything* pseudo-egotistical attitude.

You are not even a new member here for me to give slack to. Why do you torture yourself so much on this site? Or maybe you get a kick out of trolling? Or what?

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

If I was set up I would walk in. I would leave some evidence before I did. I would not engage LEO's with IED's.

edit on 23-4-2013 by esdad71 because: sp

No offense but you sound naive as hell.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I agree we need to come home and pull out of the middle east. I never supported the idea they fed to the public, that we were going over their to stop terrorism. We were going over their because of money. We wanted more control over the oil. They wanted to remove regime's that weren't playing ball and replace them with ones that would. They needed a reason for the public to support their move.

I get it.

But what the common man doesn't get - is we don't play on their field. We really are the pawns to their whimsy's and desires. But it's not just in America. It's like that in every single country in the entire world. These are the elite - and they can do as please because they have been - for millennium. They don't follow our rules. We think they should have to - us common people, but they don't. They never will and they will nuke us all to a few million to keep their seat. That's just the way it is. It's always been that way. I don't how to change that.

Cirque