Boston Conspiracy Theorists - Please Answer

We get it, you believe the official story, no matter what people bring forth will not be good enough for you to believe. You seem to be taking the story at face value, and don't want to believe the inconsistencies that are present at this time. Note: We are still lacking evidence to believe the official story.

If you want to believe the official story that's fine, but no need to be condescending to others who share an alternative view.

reply to post by Rocker2013



I am not sure of this either way to be honest. I will start by prefacing that. however I will say that their are a good bit of evidence and questions that need clarified and as per many of them will not be answered. I also believe in conspiracies I will admit that. However I will say as I have in many threads before that The problem with most conspiracy theorists is that they do not want there to be a conspiracy unless it adheres exactly with their mo. in every wy shape or fom. This is a problem that has been with me forever and has given "truthers" a bad rap as it is easy for the msm or other opposition of theirs to latch onto those people and give us all a bad nam. ie the 9/11 no planers etc.

That said op I will try to give some answers to the best of my ability and while I may not chang your mind perhaps I can give you insight into why some of us (myself included) feel that something is rotten in the great city of Boston.

1. If they were totally innocent, then I can see especially as being foreigners the fear of being persecuted and assumed guilty as just to much to handle. Why go to the authorities when in this day and age it has been ingrained into the heads of our country that most terrorists are the perfect description of you. Just a simple answer however I will go on record as saying that I do feel that they are complicit to this in some degree. However I feel that more than the two brothers were involved.

2.It seems that you are using the same tactic here as the it must fit my theory theorists I stated above are using. Yes I am weary of the craft security firm people that were there. I also find it strange that they were seen conducting drills, yes lets not forget that there was drills being ran. same as on 9/11, in Newton, Aurora, Madrid, London and even Columbine at the exact same time. Not just everyday drills but exercises which to the t mimicked the event that took place. It wa tweeted about and it was talked about initially yet as with ever other time has been buried by other points. Back on topic though. I have seen the pics of them roaming around with geiger counters. I have seen the pictures of them roaming around in pairs and I have seen most importantly the photos of them standing around doing nothing while police, emts, firemen and normal people aided victims amid the carnage. Now why this does not prove anything for or against them i do find it strange that these trained ex military and I would imagine former seals, rangers and the creme de la creme would drop all that they were doing to assist their fellow countrymen who they spent their lives and at one time took an oath to protect instead of doing nill. However I have not as you stated seen a fake timeline with pictures nor have I seen a timeline confirming what you have stated either. I would if possible like to have links to them if anyone could post them.

3. In this case I must say that I did not watch enough msm that day (barely any) to get a feel for the actors scenario. There is cases proven, of them being used in other situations 9/11 being the most prominent for reasons that I do not know or can explain, however n this case I believe from the small amount of tele I did see that all interviewed were genuine.

4. This is a good question and one that makes me think that more than anything this was a cell. If they were controlled or patsies it seems to me that they would've been sent home or away or steps would've been taken to apprehend them quicker. But maybe something went awry, maybe they were given orders or the script was changed and they were not informed. Maybe they were used and set up after or during the fact to meet a different fate other than the one that they were under the assumption was going to happen.

5. This is the most perplexing part of this whole thing to me. I asked in another thread the 360+ page Boston MIt events this question..... " Why in the hell did they go to MIT anyway?" Is this where other members of their cell were? A safe house of sorts? were they instructed to go their by their handlers? Also who ran over the first suspect? All through the night many ppl heard talk of a stolen police SUV this was confirmed to be false, then true then false again. Police also were heard stating they are throwing grenades and sticks of dynamite at us!!! not pressure cookers, pipe bombs etc. Dynamite and grenades. Also what ws taking place a UMASS that following day. Gunships, Swat and other forms of enforcement were there. Was there other groups there as well. It just seems odd to me that they were headed to MIT and then the next day their is a massive yet never talked about event at another prominent college in the area.

Reading back on this I doubt that I have swayed you or anyone else in the matter. I am more inclined myself to think that this is much bigger than these two .......

reply to post by TrowaBarton


However I do think that there is still many, many unanswered questions most of which can be found here on the 2nd post of the page here

One more thing that I would like to point out that came to mind in correlation to #1. Media power, you are pointed out in the media as being a POI to a heinous event and now a days to most of the us populace that is good enough to be considered guilty. Remember of 19 of the 9/11 hijackers that were identified 11 of them (if memory serves me right) were found to be alive and well and living peacefully around the world after the fact. Go discuss this with your average joe and even most on this site. They don't know that. Even more so throw it in google and see what it tells you. The same 19 we have been told about from that day .................. just a thought


That is all

Trowa

Originally posted by eXia7
Lets be honest here... Even if it's not a "false flag" like others are claiming, it's still an event that will be used to force more government control.

This was Obama's 9/11, and it's his time to shine. You seem a little bit upset that people would consider this to be a conspiracy considering governments in the past are guilty of being liars, and killing millions.. So can you really blame people for questioning the official story, considering they've been burned over the years?

Talk about a bad analogy: Appearing on television recently, former Hillary Clinton campaign adviser and current public relations executive Mark Penn suggested that President Obama needs a moment “similar” to the tragic terrorist attack on the Oklahoma City federal building, in order to “reconnect” with voters

Now clearly he's not trying to woo voters, but his approval ratings have tanked, and he needed something to uphold his image.

My thoughts, false flag or not, it's just another nail in the coffin of freedom.. if you don't believe government will use this like they have used every other tragedy, then you're clearly hiding under a rock.

OK, first off - Obama did not want this to happen, despite what some second-rate political analyst who was likely taken out of context said. Nor is he glad that it happened because it will get him more votes. First and foremost, the job of the president is to protect the American people - when something like this happens, unfortunately measures have to be taken to prevent something similar from happening again. We always learn something new from events like these and we have to react accordingly. You can debate the merits of how the gov't reacts to these events, be it 9/11, the Boston bombings, or OK city. But know this - these are not false flags, the gov't didn't plan them, and no one is glad they happened. Sometimes, no make that most times, things just happen without the aid of a conspiracy. These were terrorists who committed a heinous act, and there's potential for it to happen again. It just is what it is.

Originally posted by eXia7
We get it, you believe the official story, no matter what people bring forth will not be good enough for you to believe. You seem to be taking the story at face value, and don't want to believe the inconsistencies that are present at this time. Note: We are still lacking evidence to believe the official story.

No, I want evidence for what people believe!
I have already agreed that there is no concrete evidence that these guys did it, but there is EVEN LESS evidence that they didn't!

Give me the evidence to believe an alternative story, and if you cannot give me that evidence, I will believe the evidence we seem to have - which suggests that the "official story" (or sometimes actually known as "the truth") is actually what happened.

I need to believe some story to explain this, just like everyone else. The difference is that I don't immediately ASSUME that something is a false flag, even when all the available evidence is telling me it isn't and when no one can offer me any evidence that it was!

Originally posted by eXia7
If you want to believe the official story that's fine, but no need to be condescending to others who share an alternative view.

edit on 4/22/2013 by eXia7 because: (no reason given)

I asked for the debate and I asked for people to prove to me, to offer me evidence, that this was a false flag. And although there are a lot of people in other threads repeating each others BS, very few have come here to debate their case with evidence and logic. What does that tell me? It tells me they know there is no evidence for what they believe, theuy just REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to believe it and would rather stick to their friends who will support any and all nonsense they come up with - no facts or evidence needed.

You might think it's condescending, I just call it the truth. I think a lot of people like to make accusations about others when they fail in their debate, so I fully expect to be called a disinfo agent, a government shill, rude, insulting, condescending... it's water off a ducks back.

I agree with much of what you've said, especially in your opening comments. I too believe there are always going to be unanswered questions, but we are only a week from when this happened, and there are still a lot of false suggestions out there that were initially started by the media and retracted. A lot of the unanswered questions I have seen have already been answered.

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
If they were totally innocent, then I can see especially as being foreigners the fear of being persecuted and assumed guilty as just to much to handle.

I have thought about this, but I still don't think this is likely. The younger brother had been in the USA from the age of 9 if I'm correct? I don't think he can be classed as a "scared foreigner". That also doesn't explain the shoot out, and his actions after the death of his brother.

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
I also find it strange that they were seen conducting drills, yes lets not forget that there was drills being ran. same as on 9/11, in Newton, Aurora, Madrid, London and even Columbine at the exact same time. Not just everyday drills but exercises which to the t mimicked the event that took place.

I have seen this suggested too, but no evidence of it. I know of the drills at the same time as 7/7, but there has been no evidence of drills running at the same time as this event.
I do know for a fact - as was reported by marathon runners - that they were being stopped on the route after the explosion and were told that there was a scare taking place.

I would say that it's much more likely these runners were confused and being told that there was a scare, thinking this was a drill.

I am open minded about this though, if you can offer me evidence that there was a drill taking place at the same time, I would be interested in seeing it. There would be a paper trail, and members of the emergency services would have been involved in said drill, so is there any evidence of it? Any statements from the BPD or race officials about this drill?

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
However I have not as you stated seen a fake timeline with pictures nor have I seen a timeline confirming what you have stated either. I would if possible like to have links to them if anyone could post them.

This is what I'm talking about, one of the most prominent images to appear all over ATS...



Both are seen in the crowd, and then both were seen with their bags, immediately after the explosion, in the street. But since then, this has all changed, and people are now claiming that the image of them with their bags i the street was BEFORE the blast, with another image of one without his bag was AFTER the blast. This is CLEAR evidence of people manipulating the facts to suit their conspiracy.

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
Reading back on this I doubt that I have swayed you or anyone else in the matter. I am more inclined myself to think that this is much bigger than these two

Nope, I haven't been swayed at all yet. Everything I have seen from people suggesting a false flag of one kind or another I have been able to pretty much debunk in one way or another, and I'm still looking for evidence of any of it. But I do agree with you that I don't believe they were alone in this. I think the fact that the search was so extensive shows that there was more to this than just those two. I find it unlikely that these two students radicalised themselves, or that they managed to get all the materials and knowledge themselves either.

I guess we'll find out more as the investigation continues.

Thanks for your response, it is far more logic and reasonable than the vast majority of posters supporting the conspiracies, and you obviously have a more independent mindset and can accept that sometimes things just don't make sense. I think the same way about much of the 9/11 evidence. I don't feel the need to subscribe to a theory presented in a nice little package and tied off with fantasy

Here are a few answers that i would like to offer,

1. I didnt see any pictures of the brothers until they had supposedly robbed the shop, maybe i just missed them, but not everybody pays that much attention. Especially as there were that many reports flying around that suspects had been arrested.

2. The pictures of craft guys (or whoever they are), seem a bit odd to me as there are pictures of them before with their backs to the wall, then a picture of one of them running immediatley after the blast without a backpack, then the picture of the 2 of them standing together where he has his backpack on again... very strange. Did he put it down for a few minutes? If so, why the hell would you do that when there are potentially loads of possible suspect packages going to be lying around. Seems odd for a trained military/security/law enforcement officer.

3. I dont believe the people hurt were actors. That does seem too far fetched.

4. It seems to me that with the shootouts they tried there very best to kill him, and now with the news stories the day after him being captured saying things like "we may never be able to question him"... surely its too early to make statements like that, other than to make people accept that if this guy has answers, the public are not likely to hear them.

5. The shootouts, car jacking and explosives in the street. This also seems odd to me because the media were all over it, people living in the areas where it was happening would have been looking through windows to try and catch a glimpse of what was going on, yet there has been no footage of anybody other than the police actually firing weapons. Also the radio call in where the lady said she had not seen the older brother with a weapon when he was killed by the police.
Then the robbery and car jacking. Why would they make a statement to a person they had stolen a car from, saying they were the boston bombers? Surely to steal a car would mean they wanted to escape capture, so why not just kill the driver? After all, they had supposedly just killed 3 and wounded nearly 200 people so they obviously had no regard for peoples lives, and to rob a store? why? If they had PLANNED to escape, surely money and a vehicle would be the first things you would arrange. That and somewhere safe to go, not back to your home which is in the middle of the area that the police are all over.

These are just a few of the things that seem odd to me, not only that but it just doesnt seem like the usual muslim suicide bomber scenario that I am used to seeing/hearing about.

It could just be that these two were just not very well organised and rushed into it, but again, that seems unlikely to me, as even for somebody with a very low iq, they would have put more planning into it, and these two were educated men.

Originally posted by 2012king
1. I didnt see any pictures of the brothers until they had supposedly robbed the shop, maybe i just missed them, but not everybody pays that much attention. Especially as there were that many reports flying around that suspects had been arrested.

I find this very unlikely to be honest. They released video of the two walking past the storefront on the day, and every news channel repeated it over and over and over again.
Whatever the case, I think it's plausible that they would have known that they had been filmed.

Originally posted by 2012king
2. The pictures of craft guys (or whoever they are), seem a bit odd to me as there are pictures of them before with their backs to the wall, then a picture of one of them running immediatley after the blast without a backpack, then the picture of the 2 of them standing together where he has his backpack on again... very strange.

Nope, again, the timing of this has been changed to suit the fictional story. The photo of the two in the road is IMMEDIATELY after the explosions, as you can see from the others in the road with them who are clearly not marathon runners. The only people who would have been on that road during the marathon are staff, stewards and runners. Those two in uniform would NOT BE on that road unless the bomb had already gone off.

The first image with their backs to the wall was taken before the blast. The second one with them in the road was immediately after the blast, and BOTH have their bags. The photo with one of them running was after the blast while they were responding to the emergency.

Originally posted by 2012king
3. I dont believe the people hurt were actors. That does seem too far fetched.

Indeed, it would require thousands of actors in the street, in the BPD, EMT's, Nurses, race staff, stewards, doctors, surgeons and journalists. It's simply not possible.

Originally posted by 2012king
4. It seems to me that with the shootouts they tried there very best to kill him, and now with the news stories the day after him being captured saying things like "we may never be able to question him"... surely its too early to make statements like that, other than to make people accept that if this guy has answers, the public are not likely to hear them.

I haven't seen anyone say they might never be able to question him, not since the initial reports of him being killed, or him being seriously injured. They might have said that when he was first captured, but he is now stable and there seems to be no reason why he cannot be interviewed.

Still, if they wanted to kill him to silence him, why not do it in the following days? He wasn't in hiding. He could have been hit by a car at any point...

Originally posted by 2012king
5. The shootouts, car jacking and explosives in the street. This also seems odd to me because the media were all over it, people living in the areas where it was happening would have been looking through windows to try and catch a glimpse of what was going on, yet there has been no footage of anybody other than the police actually firing weapons. Also the radio call in where the lady said she had not seen the older brother with a weapon when he was killed by the police.

I'm confused, are you saying the police were shooting at no one? And then saying there was a witness you believe who saw the older brother? Which is it?

Originally posted by 2012king
Why would they make a statement to a person they had stolen a car from, saying they were the boston bombers?

Gloating?
Who knows?
Why did they kill people to start with?

Originally posted by 2012king
If they had PLANNED to escape, surely money and a vehicle would be the first things you would arrange. That and somewhere safe to go, not back to your home which is in the middle of the area that the police are all over.

By this point their images were out there. They couldn't use cards, they couldn't go home... they needed cash and the only option left is robbery. This makes sense to me.

Originally posted by 2012king
It could just be that these two were just not very well organised and rushed into it, but again, that seems unlikely to me, as even for somebody with a very low iq, they would have put more planning into it, and these two were educated men.

I agree, there are always going to be things that just don't make sense. I hope a lot of this is cleared up in the future and we can get a better understanding of what they were thinking. I agree that it seems, based on the guys and what people have said about them, there were other influences involved, at least for the younger brother.

reply to post by Rocker2013


thank you for your well articulated response. I have heard accounts of twitter and interviews of ppl claiming that they were announcing over the loudspeakers near the finish line that they were conducting drills at the time and that there was nothing to worry about. Another thing which interested me heavily is an interview and report on a cbs affiliate that I watched of the convenience store clerk who was robbed by the brothers........... Well i know right, it is now being reported that they were not the robbers of the store and were just in the area and perhaps shopped there right beforehand. i am trying to dig this up too as well.

Hopefully I will be able to find this information ad post it here for everyone. As for the yellers and screamers on here take note. The rapport Rocker and I had on here is how we all in this community should conduct ourselves. Open minds and unity is the key to finding out the truth, not how we want it to be or how we think it should be but the truth plain and simple.

That is all

Trowa

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
I have heard accounts of twitter and interviews of ppl claiming that they were announcing over the loudspeakers near the finish line that they were conducting drills at the time and that there was nothing to worry about.

I haven't seen any of this at all, and I've been paying a lot of attention to what witnesses have been reporting. I know that people watching the race further away from the finish line who didn't know about the explosions saw the authorities searching and some of them assumed it was a drill or a scare, and I know that runners were being stopped and told that there was a bomb scare rather than being told that there had actually been explosions.

I think this is a simple matter of misinformation, and elaboration of the facts. I haven't seen any of the journalists who would have been at the finish line reporting any drills or scares before the explosions.

I also think it's incredibly unlikely that random members of the public, right there, would have been privy to that information either. People not involved in a "drill" are not generally told there is a drill taking place. It makes no sense at all for there to be any drills being conducted while the event is going on.

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
Another thing which interested me heavily is an interview and report on a cbs affiliate that I watched of the convenience store clerk who was robbed by the brothers........... Well i know right, it is now being reported that they were not the robbers of the store and were just in the area and perhaps shopped there right beforehand. i am trying to dig this up too as well.

I saw it stated the following day that the robbery was not actually connected to the brothers, and they they had simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I haven't looked into this though.

It seems neither here nor there whether they robbed the place or not to be perfectly honest.

Originally posted by TrowaBarton
Hopefully I will be able to find this information ad post it here for everyone. As for the yellers and screamers on here take note. The rapport Rocker and I had on here is how we all in this community should conduct ourselves. Open minds and unity is the key to finding out the truth, not how we want it to be or how we think it should be but the truth plain and simple.

I agree.
I have been a little bit guilty of being quite blunt and forceful in my posts before, but this is usually in response to the same from others who insist on adding nonsense without any facts. People making claims with no logic and no evidence and believing the most implausible things annoys me. I don't understand that kind of wilful ignorance in people.

Thank you for the interesting points raised. I would definitely love to see any evidence pointing to a drill taking place if you have it

Here is one video that I found interesting, probably nothing you have not seen.

That is all

Trowa

Originally posted by TrowaBarton

Here is one video that I found interesting, probably nothing you have not seen.

That is all

Trowa

That is indeed interesting, and I hadn't seen that one before either

I am inclined to think the same as him, that there must have been some kind of suspicion before hand. Perhaps someone knew something was possible, or the FBI had some reason to suspect that something could be wrong.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on how that develops and looking for more about that though.

post removed faulty intel Sorry

would suggest that going on the run when you're are a prime suspect in a terrorist attack is the dumbest move either of them could have made had they actually been innocent.

Secondly only to turning yourself in as the dumbest thing to do when one is a patsy. Turning yourself in to the same authorities that have ensured you will get the blame for a horrific crime you didn't commit? Clearly only one fate in store.

Why didn't Oswald turn himself in? Why didn't the London "bombers" turn themselves in, deciding to run and eventually get shot by police marksman near Canary Wharf, instead of turning themselves in to the very same authorities, once news of their "drill" explosions reached them?

lol at the 'terrorists they allowed to run around the city' comment. yep, clearly they weren't doing anything to try and catch them. that explains the shootouts, car chases, lock down, etc. it was the most poorly conducted experiment in the history of mankind, just to see how a city would react to putting martial law into place. except apparently it was just something that people are calling martial law, because there was no imposition of actual military law, and the military wasn't used to enforce it. and oh, yea, all the cops just sat around doing nothing while terrorists roamed the city at will. clearly the only viable answer is they wanted to see how martial law would work.

Who here could present evidence suggesting either of these two men are guilty of this alleged crime? Media reports do not qualify as evidence.

7-Eleven robbery not related to Boston bombing suspects

From reading all of the numerous posts on ATS concerning this subject, I am of the opinion that "something does not ring true" with the official explanations. I am leaning towards the idea that the brothers may have somehow been made to believe they were part of "dress rehearesal bomb drill". probable convinced they were playing the part of some "double agent" espionage plot.

They were then supplied with guns, bombs, materials etc to add realism and only found out, much too late...they were part of something more synical......methinks...

Originally posted by redtic

Originally posted by eXia7
Lets be honest here... Even if it's not a "false flag" like others are claiming, it's still an event that will be used to force more government control.

This was Obama's 9/11, and it's his time to shine. You seem a little bit upset that people would consider this to be a conspiracy considering governments in the past are guilty of being liars, and killing millions.. So can you really blame people for questioning the official story, considering they've been burned over the years?

Talk about a bad analogy: Appearing on television recently, former Hillary Clinton campaign adviser and current public relations executive Mark Penn suggested that President Obama needs a moment “similar” to the tragic terrorist attack on the Oklahoma City federal building, in order to “reconnect” with voters

Now clearly he's not trying to woo voters, but his approval ratings have tanked, and he needed something to uphold his image.

My thoughts, false flag or not, it's just another nail in the coffin of freedom.. if you don't believe government will use this like they have used every other tragedy, then you're clearly hiding under a rock.

OK, first off - Obama did not want this to happen, despite what some second-rate political analyst who was likely taken out of context said. Nor is he glad that it happened because it will get him more votes. First and foremost, the job of the president is to protect the American people - when something like this happens, unfortunately measures have to be taken to prevent something similar from happening again. We always learn something new from events like these and we have to react accordingly. You can debate the merits of how the gov't reacts to these events, be it 9/11, the Boston bombings, or OK city. But know this - these are not false flags, the gov't didn't plan them, and no one is glad they happened. Sometimes, no make that most times, things just happen without the aid of a conspiracy. These were terrorists who committed a heinous act, and there's potential for it to happen again. It just is what it is.

Because people can't lie to your face right? Even IF Obama didn't want this, and it isn't a false flag, it's possible OTHER criminal elements within government set this up. You can't assume every single being in government cares about life like maybe you and I might. You can also bet there were people in government chomping at the bit to get new control measures implemented, and this event has granted their wishes... even if they pretend to care.

We won't know for another month or two what they plan on doing, but with congressmen and senators calling for more cameras, and drones over cities, how can I not expect this to just equal more methods of control?

reply to post by Rocker2013
I don't know about the rest of your questions but I'm sure many "theories" both logical and illogical abound but I can honestly answer the first one:

1. If the brothers were innocent, why didn't they do what others identified in images by guys on 4chan and hand themselves in the moment their images were seen on TV? An innocent person would have seen that and immediately attended the local police station ready to clear their name. So, please explain that to me. If you believe the brothers were duped into it in some way, this still applies, why didn't they surrender and why did they seemingly then go on the run armed with guns and bombs?

If the FBI puts my picture all over the media accusing me of some kind of domestic terrorism even though innocent the LAST thing I'm going to do is turn myself in! By the time they have plastered your pic all over the media they have committed to assuming your guilt, and even if by some miracle of God you are exonerated your life and reputation are ruined FOREVER! Just ask the guy first accused of the Atlanta Olympic bombing (life ruined) or the first guy arrested in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping (died of stress induced heart attack in jail). They would find me in a non-extradition country making statements via attorney. True innocence doesn't mean you won't spend the rest of your life in jail or shunned by the community.

For me, it's enough to know that "false flag" is the most likely scenario in this case, which is a good thing because it's very unlikely anything contrary to the official MSM story will ever be proven.
Trying to find the truth behind these false flag events is the most difficult thing. Be aware that if the US Government is going to take the time to plot these disgusting maneuvers, they're certainly not going to throw up their hands and say defeatedly "Aw, damn...you got us!" when someone shouts, "FALSE FLAG!"

I'd like to offer my opinion on the most likely points of the Boston thing. First, real bombs, real bombers, real victims. NO ACTORS! When you are an unconscionable government, you have no qualms about murdering innocent citizens in a conspiracy. You also limit the perpetrators' knowledge of their involvement. I see two possibilities. One: The brothers weren't really involved at all and were chosen to take the rap, or Two: they were involved, but were unwittingly guided through a series of choices they believed were their own. And as far as it goes, at this point, there's no way to know what's true about this guy's custody. His brother is already dead, rather "conveniently."

So many things they have yet to reveal through the MSM. We're still in the "problem" phase of the "problem-reaction-solution" formula. Up next will be the MSM reporting what the general public wants the government to do to fix the mess.