The Religion of Theism, Atheism and Agnosticism.

page: 2
17
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 05:42 PM
link   
reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I love how you disagree. You shed an unbiased view on the whole debate.



When I say they are 'neutral' I'm referring to the concepts and not to the assertive varieties of atheists who regard it as a cause and sometimes a movement. For instance, Northern Europeans represent a large population of atheists and agnostics who express their understandings by rarely even speaking about religion. By that I mean we don't tend to care much about the subject of religion and have no incentive to 'convert' others to that way of thinking.

Religion is mostly irrelevant to our thoughts and the activities of militant atheism are seen as similarly irrelevant.


This is what I am getting at and what I myself would like to see: a complete dropping of the issue entirely, simply because it is no longer relevant. To be fair, Europe did have to go through its movements (the reformation, the enlightenment, the renaissance) to get to where it is today. But the methods used to further the movement was not dogmatic expression of convictions, but art, literature and reason.




posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 05:43 PM
link   
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


If you care about people... youll care about what they believe and why.

If their beliefs are harmful to society then you would seek to change them. Often through discussion and presentation of evidence

This whole thread stinks to high heaven because all of this is so obvious.

If god manifests in reality then there is evidence by which to prove his existence.

If god does not manifest in reality, then a reality in which he does not exist is indistinguishable from the one we currently inhabit.

edit on 21-4-2013 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 06:20 PM
link   
Religion is to have faith in someone else's experience. In one way or another everyone puts their trust/faith in someone else's experience, work or study.

We all put our trust differently. Some argue that the bible is man made, but than again what isn't man made?

Can we trust man to tell us the truth and nothing but the truth. This is what people argue when it comes to scientists. They put their trust in that a group of scientists are more truthful than one.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 07:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
How long can we argue about what the theist cannot prove, what the atheist cannot disprove, and what the agnostic cannot know? How long can we argue about what amounts to nothing?


I'm in negotiations on rollout strategies and profit break points, but I think were finally seeing daylight. I'll let you know when all this horsesh*t will be settled. You can blame the lawyers. Friggin' idiots, all of them.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 07:22 PM
link   
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 



How long can we argue about what the theist cannot prove, what the atheist cannot disprove, and what the agnostic cannot know? How long can we argue about what amounts to nothing?


The arguing amounts to nothing? So if there isn't an answer - is this a problem?

Is it just that you hate arguing? :-)

You seem to want some kind of solution, resolution or explanation - or a confession maybe?

Are you religious?



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 08:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by jiggerj
 



The question of whether or not this is a subject worth arguing over becomes a matter of what some people do with their belief that a deity exists. When their belief is used to kill, hurt, oppress, dominate, scare, or hate others, only then does it become (MUST become) an issue worthy of discussion.


I wholeheartedly agree.

Would not then the conviction in a mere concept—either God, no God, or we cannot know—and the striving to see it realized be the cause of this destruction? Isn't this religious motivation? I have to wonder why the atheist and agnostic contribute to this division by taking part in it, getting his hands just as dirty so to speak.

edit on 21-4-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)


Somebody has to speak out against it. If we say nothing, religion will just keep on spreading the word. It's a disease that spreads, and 'reason' is the only cure (if there is such a thing as a cure).



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 09:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



religion |riˈlijən|
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods: ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
• a particular system of faith and worship: the world's great religions.
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance: consumerism is the new religion.


So you are claiming that lack of belief and worship, aka religion, is religion?

I'm confused, are you trolling or oblivious to this contradiction?

Atheism is to deny the existence of a higher power. There is no official atheist doctrine, no official church, no official organization. There are no atheist equivalents to priests or imams; there simply is no structure in atheism. Lack of structure sets atheism and agnosticism apart from common faiths.

Atheism and agnosticism are more or less personal, whereas common religions are absolute and universal.
edit on 21-4-2013 by DestroyDestroyDestroy because: formatting



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 10:14 PM
link   
If I choose not to believe in myths (aka god) and I don't care to debate it with anyone else. How does that put me in a religion? If anything its one religious view that god doesn't exist.

"Religion" being defined by man I want to point out.

So That initial ONE religious view is me saying "Haha I dont agree"

Why is it debated forever? In the beginning you could die over your religious views. I believe now its a way to reassert your view by discussing it with others.

Go back to the first number about you dont have religious views until Deitys are introduced. Yeah thats me, my mind set is that "child" that never heard about them. Thats the type of views I hold.

However I'm a spiritual person, relating to the mind/body and its balance and respect for the world, nothing more.
edit on 21-4-2013 by NotAConsumer because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-4-2013 by NotAConsumer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 10:23 PM
link   
Number six. Not true. I am agnostic. If I was to decide definitively that I believe in god, it would not be dogmatic or associated with any known religion. It would be scientific.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:20 AM
link   
reply to post by Wertdagf
 




If you care about people... youll care about what they believe and why.

If their beliefs are harmful to society then you would seek to change them. Often through discussion and presentation of evidence

This whole thread stinks to high heaven because all of this is so obvious.

If god manifests in reality then there is evidence by which to prove his existence.

If god does not manifest in reality, then a reality in which he does not exist is indistinguishable from the one we currently inhabit.


I know many who believe in God that would prove you wrong. It is not what they believe, but how ideological about their beliefs they are. Your argument stinks.

You can argue a non-argument until the cows come home, but it doesn't change anything. You're proving nothing but your position on deities and your beliefs their regards—mere opinions—not that you're of higher morals because of it, or that you in any way hold less religious conviction in your chosen ideology.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:23 AM
link   
reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy
 



Atheism and agnosticism are more or less personal, whereas common religions are absolute and universal.


Then why take the label if its so personal? Do we need to remind ourselves of our position on something we cannot find to exist? No, it's a display of affiliation, and the mark of an advocate to an ideology.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:42 AM
link   
reply to post by NotAConsumer
 




If I choose not to believe in myths (aka god) and I don't care to debate it with anyone else. How does that put me in a religion? If anything its one religious view that god doesn't exist.

"Religion" being defined by man I want to point out.

So That initial ONE religious view is me saying "Haha I dont agree"

Why is it debated forever? In the beginning you could die over your religious views. I believe now its a way to reassert your view by discussing it with others.

Go back to the first number about you dont have religious views until Deitys are introduced. Yeah thats me, my mind set is that "child" that never heard about them. Thats the type of views I hold.

However I'm a spiritual person, relating to the mind/body and its balance and respect for the world, nothing more.


If you call yourself an atheist, yet you don't advocate for atheism, I would say you are mislabelling yourself. Saying one doesn't believe in Gods doesn't require a label or dogma to do so.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:44 AM
link   
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Here ill give you a label. Your an Aunicornist! This is what religion does to people who don't believe in its idiotic agruments. Create a label for people who aren't gullible enough to believe you.

How about you stop labeling yourself. Hypocrite! Aunicornist who wastes his time not worshiping the great unicorn.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:46 AM
link   
reply to post by NorEaster
 



I'm in negotiations on rollout strategies and profit break points, but I think were finally seeing daylight. I'll let you know when all this horsesh*t will be settled. You can blame the lawyers. Friggin' idiots, all of them.

Very nice. I truly cannot wait. It's time to redefine, and to barricade these ceaseless dead ends we spend so much intellectual energy on. One argument to crumble them all.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Wertdagf
 



Here ill give you a label. Your an Aunicornist! This is what religion does to people who don't believe in its idiotic agruments. Create a label for people who aren't gullible enough to believe you.

How about you stop labeling yourself. Hypocrite! Aunicornist who wastes his time not worshiping the great unicorn.


Label me how you see fit. The religious minded are prone to doing so. And c'mon, in what reality do we use unicorns to further our arguments? Oh yes, only within religious discussions. It must be tiresome to have to break out that old unicorn argument time and time again. Multiplying zeros by zeros, arguing over nothing with nothings, that's all we're doing here.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:52 AM
link   
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


you are playing a word game on this thread i think.

"It is not our vocation to be theists, atheists or agnostics. It is a choice. It is not our vocation to be of a certain religion. It is a choice. No one is born of a fundamental belief; it is acquired."

Lets say i choose not to acquire a religious or anti religious fundamental belief. And Im not being agnostic saying that we cannot know. I am being myself, my soul and saying hello nature, i love you.



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 12:59 AM
link   
Atheism is simply the definition of someone who lacks a belief
in god OR someone who chooses to not believe in god, it
simply means someone DOES NOT have the belief, the
way they went about getting to not having the belief makes no
difference, yes everyone is born without a belief in a god and
because they do not know he even exists they
would very well be atheists, there are on the other hand
atheists who choose later to not believe but they are simply
going back to being an atheist, its just a definition not a religion.......

I do not understand why so many have to add to the definition,
if you add your own opinion to it then its your choice to see
them as something different, it is just a word created to define
a segment of the population, theism must be chosen atheism on
the other hand does not require an active choice simply the lack
of something, IE the lack of belief in a god. you do not have to
choose to lack something, you can lack it from the beginning......

This gets so darn old, arguing over what a word means because
folks have some vested interest in making both stances seem
as though they are equal in footing, one does not make a claim,
the other does, one simply means you have no knowledge of god OR
you choose to not believe in god the other means you choose to
believe in god, there is no 2nd definition for theist, you see? atheism
can mean a choice but its also simply not knowing you have a choice
either way you lack the belief in god.....



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 01:00 AM
link   
reply to post by bloodreviara
 


i know what you're saying, i was trying to point it out to OP that hes playing a word game, im new to ats :3



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 01:23 AM
link   



posted on Apr, 22 2013 @ 01:48 AM
link   
This is a wonderful thread. One of the better ones I have seen lately anyway.

Maintaining a position in the argument just acts to perpetuate this argument endlessly.
Realizing the irrelevance of the debate, and it's inherent futility seems to be the only way to reach a reasonable conclusion.

I have come to not have a vested interest the subject.
And surprise surprise, I find that I no longer get into debates about it.
Weird how that works.





new topics
top topics
 
17
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join