A Disturbing Essay on Islamic Scientific Development

reply to post by charles1952

I haven't seen anything to persuade me that Islam supports science as much as any other religion or nation, or that it has had the worst luck in the world with outside events.

maybe the fact that science flourished when Islam was practiced and for other religions it only flourished when religion was discarded will persuade you.
Literacy is encouraged very much by the Prophet, he let go POWs if they could teach few muslims to read and write.
All muslim kids get some education in reading arabic but they don't have much access to education especially in developing countries. Its a socio-economic problem as kids of other religions at those place are equally suffering.
You cannot compare progress made by developed countries with developing countries and then wrongly assume that it must be due to their religion.
If you want to compare effect of religion on literacy/education then take a specific country(preferably developed) and then find the level of education among different religious group.
You cannot discard a person's achievements when the person is muslim but lives in a developed country.
If your parameters of investigation are faulty and observations and conclusions over simplified then even if you have the best intentions, you may not really grow in your understanding.

reply to post by logical7

Dear logical7,

Thank you very much for sticking with this thread. I truly would miss you if you left, thanks for checking me every step of the way. I really don't want to accept false thoughts and errors, I already have enough which I'm trying to get rid of.

maybe the fact that science flourished when Islam was practiced and for other religions it only flourished when religion was discarded will persuade you.

There's a lot in that sentence, and I may be missing some of it. Are you saying that Islam is not being practiced now, which is why Science is not flourishing? Or are you saying that religion is what determines Scientific progress? I'm not sure if, or when, Religion in the West was "discarded," but are you saying that Science didn't begin flourishing in the West until, say, 1950?

Its a socio-economic problem as kids of other religions at those place are equally suffering.
You cannot compare progress made by developed countries with developing countries and then wrongly assume that it must be due to their religion.

Again, you pack a lot into a few words. I admire that because I'm not able to do it myself.

I agree that the Middle-East and Africa do not contain developed countries, with the exception of Israel. Qatar, and the UAE come closest. I'm surprised at Israel, they're not even 70 years old. But you seem to imply that religion doesn't matter, it's socio-economic. I'm confused, I thought your position was that Islam when followed, caused Science to flourish, and the giving up of Christianity caused Science to flourish in the West.

And if the main factor is socio-economic, why is the Middle-East undeveloped? Did Islam play a part in that? After all, Israel is flourishing, and they are the country which isn't Islamic.

If you want to compare effect of religion on literacy/education then take a specific country(preferably developed) and then find the level of education among different religious group.

Ok, you've got it. A study was conducted in the US about the effects of education on religion. Here's what it found:

• More education does not decrease the odds that an American will believe in God or the afterlife.
• More education "positively affects" religious participation and the role of religion (including devotional activities) in daily life.
• More education seems to increase the odds that one will switch religious affiliations (especially to a mainline Protestant denomination), but does not correlate with disaffiliation with religious faiths.

The research goes beyond statements that would be easy for respondents to affirm without thinking about their actual life activities. For instance, the survey found modest increases in the odds, with more education, of regularly engaging in prayer and in reading the Bible. And the survey found that the more education one has, the more likely one is to have attended a religious service in the previous seven days -- and it reveals an even larger increase in the odds of having done volunteer work for a religious group.

More Education Doesn't Mean Loss of Faith

If your parameters of investigation are faulty and observations and conclusions over simplified then even if you have the best intentions, you may not really grow in your understanding.

You're right. But where have I gone wrong? And, have you, possibly, gone wrong?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

Are you saying that Islam is not being practiced now, which is why Science is not flourishing? Or are you saying that religion is what determines Scientific progress?

Islam is being practiced more individually, Islam is not a religion like christianity, it is also a social structure that ensures social harmony and liberates people to dedicate more time to pursuit of knowledge.
The muslims are right now in two boats, neither having a complete islamic structure nor a complete secular one.
Islam has the principle of seeking knowledge inbuilt in it, Christianity on the other hand crushed scientific investigation till the Church was powerful to do it. Now the Church follows/obeys desires of people rather than being a guide towards godliness.
Islam has nothing in it that discourages scientific investigation as you think.

But you seem to imply that religion doesn't matter, it's socio-economic. I'm
confused, I thought your position was
that Islam when followed, caused
Science to flourish,

Yes both are true, you don't have to be confused.
Scientific development requires a basic platform to get launched, fulfilment of basic needs of people and basic education. This is the socio-economic factors that are independent of religion.
Islam was able to provide it during the golden age, secularism can provide it, even communism can.

The other part is, Islam encourages seeking knowledge.

Both parts came together during golden age, now the 2nd part is still there and wherever muslims have access to education and opportunities, they seek them and do progress. People from mùslim countries coming to Western Universities is proof enough that muslims are seeking knowledge as our religion encourages even demands.

And if the main factor is socio-
economic, why is the Middle-East
undeveloped? Did Islam play a part in
that? After all, Israel is flourishing, and
they are the country which isn't
Islamic.

maybe it has something to do with west backed dictatorial regimes and colonisers before them.
Israel has borrowed freely in technology and money from America and they established a secular state that provides the basic platform without trouble.

In short its the muslims at fault, not Islam.

Ok, you've got it. A study was
conducted in the US about the effects
of education on religion.

not this kind of study, i meant study of level of education among various religious groups.

The 2007 Pew survey found that
Muslim Americans generally mirror
the U.S. public in education and
income levels, with immigrant
Muslims slightly more affluent and
better educated than native-born Muslims. Twenty-four percent of all
Muslims and 29 percent of
immigrant Muslims have college
degrees, compared to 25 percent for
the U.S. general population. Forty-
one percent of all Muslim Americans and 45 percent of immigrant
Muslims report annual household
income levels of $50,000 or higher.
This compares to the national
average of 44 percent. Immigrant
Muslims are well represented among higher-income earners, with 19
percent claiming annual household
incomes of $100,000 or higher
(compared to 16 percent for the
Muslim population as a whole and
17 percent for the U.S. average). This is likely due to the strong
concentration of Muslims in
professional, managerial, and
technical fields, especially in
information technology, education,
medicine, law, and the corporate world.

But where have I gone
wrong? And, have you, possibly, gone
wrong?

i have tried to point it. I'l be glad if my errors are pointed out.