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See, I told you it would be controversial. If you're angry already please consider going to another thread.
Contrary to what has been told us, Islam may be the most sterile philosophy to have captured the mind of man. No other philosophy so thoroughly destroys whatever people it has gotten a grip on. Once Islam is firmly in control, the society not only halts in its progress, but actively devolves.
However, 'it is now known that his work is based on older Indian or Greek sources.' In fact, it is not clear if he was even a Muslim. He may have been a Zoroastrian.
Another epithet given to him by al-Tabari, "al-Majusi," would seem to indicate that he was an adherent of the old Zoroastrian religion. This would still have been possible at that time for a man of Iranian origin... en.wikipedia.org...
The inventor of algebra may not have been a Muslim after all. Even if he was, he was reared in a society so recently invaded by Islam that it still retained a spark of its pre-Islamic genius. That light would perish soon enough.
Muslim architecture was actually taken from the Christian Byzantine Greeks.
The most famous medical mind during that time was arguably Moses Ben Maimonides, a Jew who had to flee Spain because of Muslim excesses under Almohad rule: 12th century puritan Islamicists.
Is there really stupefaction of the intellect? The author asks what Mecca has produced in the last 1400 years then points to London, Paris, Madrid, Rome, and Berlin, other centers of empires. There have only been two Muslims who have been awarded the Nobel Prize in any of the sciences. One earned his as part of a team working in California and the other was declared to be a non-Muslim by government officials who erased the word "Muslim" from his tombstone. And today?
This is a constant pattern of Islam. It invades a society where, for a century or two, there is enough remaining pre-Islamic genius to echo on for a while. Over time, coerced conversions increase with the accruing stupefaction of national intellect. As the light dims and goes out, the Muslims, now thoroughly in charge, take the credit for the former flame lit by others.
The author believes that it is not a question of being Arab. As he notes:
Even in the Muslim world, it is recognized that the Christians are arguably the most dynamic part of their societies, as Al-Jadid, a Los Angeles-based Arab journal hints at:
The continuing exodus of Christians from the Middle East is... in fact potentially quite dangerous, and this is true not just for Christians but for Arabs in general. The Middle East may not be able to sustain the amputation of one of its most integral and dynamic components. www.aljadid.com...
Most embarrassing is the success of those Arabs who have left the Islamic world. Ecuador has had three Arab presidents. Colombia has had one Arab president. El Salvador, one. Honduras, one. Argentina, one. The Dominican Republic, two. I won't even list the vice-presidents. Even non-Latin Jamaica had a Lebanese President, Edward Seaga.
The Arabs are wealthy, elite, and vastly overrepresented in all halls of power and the arts in Latin America. In Chile, Palestinian Christians are 10% of the Senate, though only 3% of the population. In Colombia, Lebanese are 10% of the Sentate, though less than 2% of the population.
What is ignored is that almost all these Western Arabs are Christian; or, at least, raised in a Christian culture. This undoubtedly explains their success, but no one dares admit it.
This is a constant pattern of Islam. It invades a society where, for a century or two, there is enough remaining pre-Islamic genius to echo on for a while. Over time, coerced conversions increase with the accruing stupefaction of national intellect. As the light dims and goes out, the Muslims, now thoroughly in charge, take the credit for the former flame lit by others.
The question must be broached. 'Is Islam holding the Arabs back?'
Arabs who have left the Islamic world. Ecuador has had three Arab presidents. Colombia has had one Arab president. El Salvador, one. Honduras, one. Argentina, one. The Dominican Republic, two. I won't even list the vice-presidents. Even non-Latin Jamaica had a Lebanese President, Edward Seaga.
The Arabs are wealthy, elite, and vastly overrepresented in all halls of power and the arts in Latin America. In Chile, Palestinian Christians are 10% of the Senate, though only 3% of the population. In Colombia, Lebanese are 10% of the Sentate, though less than 2% of the population.
We might use different words, but I agree that everything in the Universe can be traced back to the Creator. He has given us our minds and allowed us to do with them as we choose.
Personal Disclosure: Islam is secondary! Allah is primary! Islam can claim nothing that Allah has not granted.
Most embarrassing is the success of those Arabs who have left the Islamic world. Ecuador has had three Arab presidents. Colombia has had one Arab president. El Salvador, one. Honduras, one. Argentina, one. The Dominican Republic, two. I won't even list the vice-presidents. Even non-Latin Jamaica had a Lebanese President, Edward Seaga.
Keeping Plato is a wonderful thing. I'd like some help though, I thought the texts were preserved in monasteries by the Church. Please, fill me in on my history.
Personally, I am grateful to elements of Muslim cultures from throughout history. I am lately especially grateful that they held on to the Plato long enough for the Western dark age to pass.
You are absolutely right! Brilliant!
I also think that it has to do with where a culture places its emphasis, and the things that are often emphasized in Islam of Muslim culture are shockingly not what we emphasize.
Fine with me. Would they then stay out of everyone else's hair?
I wish that we would get out of their hair and just let them 'make business' and express themselves any way that they please, but, "if wishes were fishes", and all.
Hate to say it, but I'm baffled. What list?
So, what's with the list, Charles?
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Bybyots
May I admit that I find this confusing? How are areas of study such as physics, or chemistry handled? Are they religious? Is philosophy the only thing that needs to be studied now? I'm not trying to fight, I just don't understand it.
He says " all the knowledge is religious. And the only science which can think about this is philosophy."
Thank you, I didn't know how to consider it. Do you suppose that Westerners, or those with a tradition of liberty, would find Islam to be too restrictive or controlling?
Islam is neither a culture . neither a lifestyle. It is a comprehensive religion that has instructions for human beings since they are born to the moment they are buried.
Again, you might be right about the bigotry, I don't know. Don't we need to consider the ideas presented and the evidence he supplies? While it is possible, I don't think this is government propaganda.
The twisted minds with some personal agenda + bigotry is covering the eyes to interpret the truth like this article does.
Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by freedomSlave
May I suggest that the essay was pointing out that, in his opinion, the acceptance of Islam has slowed scientific and creative progress where it is accepted?
And we don't really have a control groupto compare with, do we? Where is the good society that was religion free?
Originally posted by mideast
I truly doubt that this isn't a bashing Islam thread.
Perhaps, but I haven't seen the hostility to science that you have. Israel, a pretty Jewish country, has been turning out scientists and Nobel Prize winners far more frequently than their small population would indicate.
Christians and Catholics and Judaism still fight tooth and nail with the scientific communities and on it's progress . If any of these groups had full reign on a country in the west I don't think it would be any different from the countries run by Islamic fundamentals.
May I admit that I find this confusing? How are areas of study such as physics, or chemistry handled?
I wonder what you envision when you hope for a "fruitful relationship between Islam and west?" I am afraid that those who describe the US as "The Great Satan" may not wish for a fruitful relationship.
“Following Islamic logic, the Islamic Republic of Iran opposes any blast or the killing of innocents be it in Boston in the US or Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria and condemns it,” Ayatollah Khamenei said on Wednesday.
“The US is waging terrorist warfare against people all over the world and then when something like this happens in Boston, the media generates a huge outcry, whipping people up into a kind of a xenophobic frenzy blaming it on some others,” Barrett added.
Isn't there another, more worldly, level where people are judged based on their accomplishments?
Girih tiles are a set of five tiles that were used in the creation of tiling patterns for decoration of buildings in Islamic architecture. They are known to have been used since about the year 1200 and their arrangements found significant improvement starting with the Darb-i Imam shrine in Isfahan in Iran built in 1453.
The five shapes of the tiles are:
a regular decagon with ten interior angles of 144°;
an elongated (irregular convex) hexagon with interior angles of 72°, 144°, 144°, 72°, 144°, 144°;
a bow tie (non-convex hexagon) with interior angles of 72°, 72°, 216°, 72°, 72°, 216°;
a rhombus with interior angles of 72°, 108°, 72°, 108°; and
a regular pentagon with five interior angles of 108°.
All sides of these figures have the same length; and all their angles are multiples of 36° (π/5). All of them, except the pentagon, have bilateral (reflection) symmetry through two perpendicular lines. Some have additional symmetries. Specifically, the decagon has tenfold rotational symmetry (rotation by 36°); and the pentagon has fivefold rotational symmetry (rotation by 72°).
Girih are lines (strapwork) which decorate the tiles. The tiles are used to form girih patterns, from the Persian word گره, meaning "knot". In most cases, only the girih (and other minor decorations like flowers) are visible rather than the boundaries of the tiles themselves. The girih are piece-wise straight lines which cross the boundaries of the tiles at the center of an edge at 54° (3π/10) to the edge. Two intersecting girih cross each edge of a tile. Most tiles have a unique pattern of girih inside the tile which are continuous and follow the symmetry of the tile. However, the decagon has two possible girih patterns one of which has only fivefold rather than tenfold rotational symmetry.
In 2007, Peter J. Lu of Harvard University and Professor Paul J. Steinhardt of Princeton University published a paper in the journal Science suggesting that girih tilings possessed properties consistent with self-similar fractal quasicrystalline tilings such as Penrose tilings (presentation 1974, predecessor works starting in about 1964) predating them by five centuries.