Why does Boston celebrate Martial Law with chants of ‘USA, USA’?

reply to post by Boston


In case you didn't click the links....

This wasn't martial law.
Martial law is a suspension of law by the military.
Most of the guys in this event that appeared military were in fact tactical police, some were national guard. National Guard is not military, its controlled by the state, given orders by the governor, and is authorized to be used as a police force.

It does not apply to the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The U.S. Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is also not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act, primarily because the Coast Guard has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.

You have to have a suspension of Posse Comitatus to have true martial law.

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos

Originally posted by Boston
There was not even national guard, just law enforcement.

Ahem... National guard in Boston Manhunt

National guard in Boston Manhunt

National guard in Boston Manhunt

Ya, but that’s nit picking a bit. For one not a problem, state controlled not fed, very American and acceptable. And - they sure were not visible all that much (sure you can go find a pic…) they were not in charge – the cops overwhelmingly were.

I have seen National guard very visible in blizzards. This was all flashing blue lights. Even the armored cars were Boston PD swat, not “homeland security.”

I’m very vocal about constitutional rights. I ranted on a local pd website over drunk driving check points which I find barely legal and told them to watch out for lawyers with video cameras who just might be checking up on their training – lol

but this just was not done wrong. Over the top… maybe… but no one in Boston thinks so – if the cops did not do it we would have. They bombed patriots day the (&%*%$)*. They were going down.

Im just saying PR wise, we are shooting our selves in the foot with a shotgun complaining about local PD protecting their town.

National Guard is basically what we used to call the local “militia”, its not the “regulars”.
The real military is controlled by the Federal Government, the militia is controlled by each state.

Originally posted by neo96

Last night in Boston, following the apprehension of a 19 year old student suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, crowds poured on to the streets of Watertown and surrounding boroughs, celebrating what they believe was an end of their terrible ordeal which began on Monday.

In what looked more like an post-game celebration following a Boston Celtics NBA championship, or a Red Sox World Series victory - major media reported the communal outpouring of national pride where resident could be seen with painted faces, brandishing American flags, and heard shouting “USA, USA

www.dailypaul.com...

I get the relief ot the manhunt ending, but what I don't get chanting USA,USA.

Given the fact no one knows if they have the right guy, they arrested a suspect,

They have no clue about the motivation behind the bombings.

In fact most people don't know anything, but that sure doesn't stop them chanting USA,USA!

What am I missing?

edit on 20-4-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

they're rednecks, they're rednecks
they don't know their ass from a whole in the ground...sings randy newman.

can't argue with that.

Okay, so now the national guard isn't military? I give up.

The actions in this city yesterday were one step shy of martial law. Disagree if you like, I'm no longer going to try to convince you.

Simply astounding....

***EDIT*** For the record, I was in the national guard; I guess I should no longer consider myself as having served my country.

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, with respect, you've been warning of Police state and Martial Law since I've been on ATS and that is coming up to a decade.

Still waiting....

Originally posted by squidboy
I could think of two for sure.

4th Ammendment

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I am not sure that applies when dealing with a suspect on the run, otherwise anyone who is being pursued by Police could just leap into someones garden and lo, they are safe until the Police get a warrant, by which time all the criminal has to do is leap over the next fence into someone else's garden and they have to get another warrant - wash rinse repeat.

The key words in that amendment are "probable cause". The Police had "probable cause" to carry out warrantless searches, the same as they would have probable cause to force entry to your house without a warrant if they had a reasonable suspicion that a crime was being committed.

Originally posted by squidboy
Possible violations of the Posse Comitatus Act (dependant upon which brances of Military were used, ie Seals).

Posse Comitatus Act

"Its intent (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) was to limit the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce the State laws."

Again, the key word here seems to be "enfforcing State Laws". This would, technically, be a Federal investigation into breaches of Federal Law. Does the PCA apply then?

reply to post by stumason


We are a police state already my friend is just that is been sold as for the good of the nation, for national security and for the common good.

Originally posted by neo96
I posted this on the bottom of page 2 still waiting on an answer

I don't fault anyone calling it martial law if someone has another term for when the government, and police forces, armed with "assault" weapons out numbered the civilian unarmed population on the streets feel free to enlighten me

9,000 Officers and Agents involved in the search..

Over 600,000 people live in Boston..

What was your question about again?

Originally posted by ProfessorChaos
Okay, so now the national guard isn't military? I give up.

National Guard is not federal military. They can be called into military service at the request of the president, but it is run by the state governor.

National Guard members are a subset of the Militia as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 311.

The state National Guard is organized into units stationed in each of the 50 states and US territories, and operates under their respective state governor or territorial adjutant general.[8] The National Guard may be called up for active duty by state governors or territorial adjutant general to help respond to domestic emergencies and disasters, such as hurricanes, floods, and earthquakes.[8]

Originally posted by stumason
Again, the key word here seems to be "enfforcing State Laws". This would, technically, be a Federal investigation into breaches of Federal Law. Does the PCA apply then?

They can act as state law enforcment as the request of the governor. That means they have the same authority as a local police officer to deal with a federal crime. There were FBI there who actually did the arresting and took him into custody.

If the police state would use the same effort and manpower that they used to go after one suspect in boston to go after every single criminal in the nation we will be a nation without crime.

Every day is a criminal in the run in any given state and town, but you don't see the same effort to go after them

I guess that is not part of the agenda.

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, with respect, you have no idea what a Police State is..

I have said this to you a few times over the years, if memory serves.

For a real Police state, look at the old East Germany, or North Korea. When you've done that, come back and explain how the current USA is in any way similiar.

reply to post by stumason


That is the problem my friend I will call it a police state regardless of what we have been spoon-fed to believe what one is.

You know me, I will stand behind my wording because I believe on my own reasoning behind it.

Plain and simple, no debate here. don't worry about using the word respect stumason I know you are a very respectful person even if you do not agree with my views of what has gone down in the US yesterday regarding the show of force in Boston, America is edging littler by littler to losing our free and open society in the name of security.

reply to post by FlyersFan


This is it exactly. No Marital Law was implemented (silly, come on now - look up ML for cry eye!). Perp was apprehended alive without any additional bloodshed. I'd have been out there cheering, too. I wouldn't be chanting "USA! USA!" but I would have been applauding all law officials.

I sure as sh*t wouldn't want their jobs in this loony tune new era of Amerika.

Cheers

reply to post by defcon5


I'm aware of how it works and I know who/what I swore oaths to, The Constitution, Bill Weld, and Bill Clinton. I will have to remember to tell my N.G. friends who happen to be in Afghanistan at this very moment that they're there for Massachusetts and not the United States.

Just as an aside, which branch do you think would be called on first to enforce martial law? I won't bother providing the answer since it should be obvious being as how Governors generally make that call.

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, you're comparing apples and oranges. A "normal" criminal tries to go about his business without even attracting attention and certainly doesn't usually kill innocents with explosive devices..

This chap had the potential, if left to escape, to make more bombs and cause more death.

A much more analogous example would be Police hunting someone who has gone a shooting rampage. They certainly do put the manpower in during those examples.

reply to post by marg6043


That's just a ludicrous way of looking at things and your "refusal" to debate it simply shows you cannot defend your position.

A real Police state is a world away from the current USA. You're not sent to work camps for political dissent, you're not prevented from travelling, you're not prevented from gathering, you're not prevented from free access to the internet or other media, you don't have your baby forceably aborted because your husband defected or otherwise went against the State... I could go on...

reply to post by stumason

What was your question about again?

Really?

Miss the quoted material about chanting USA,USA ?

reply to post by stumason


We already have debated the way in this thread how the show of force used yesterday was unprecedented for one lonely run away criminal.

So, I know already you don't agree with my stance and I will not debate the reason right now, I already posted what I have to say.

Thanks for giving me some of your time anyway.