How about a big " Well done " to all the Police and security forces involved in Boston ?

reply to post by beezzer


I'm sure you are right, beezzer, there will be more events like this.

But don't you think that the rights and freedoms we in the West enjoy, have a price ?

In that occasionally, these rights and freedoms have to be suspended, hopefully for a bona fide reason, and we aren't used to it, and naturally some will rebel, which is to be expected.

This says a lot to me about the level of rights and freedoms we enjoy, when they are suspended

reply to post by MrJohnSmith
How do you know there will be more events like this??

Its almost like you wish we relinquish every right we have just to prove a point with your posts.

The FBI questioned the older brother last year. How does that not raise a flag?? It surely raises my flag.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by beezzer

 

Okay beezzer, what is the alternative ? The suspension of rights and freedoms was only temporary, after all.

I don't see this event as the beginning of the state clamping down on rights and freedoms, generally, the measures were deemed necessary by someone to get the job done, hopefully without any members of the public getting hurt or killed in the process...

I know this wasn't addressed to me but wanted to explain my position at least.

"The measures deemed necessary" would inherently vary from person to person. There are a lot of things I won't allow my daughter to do for safety reasons that other mothers seem to have absolutely no problem with. Her being underage gives me the 100% right to judge what measures I deem necessary to keep her safe, healthy, and hopefully happy and well adjusted until she ventures out on her own. My measures may seem way overboard to some and not enough to others.

The same thing goes for the government when it comes to judging what "measures are deemed necessary" for your and my safety. As adults WE should be in control of that as long as we are not endangering others. As much as I hate the slippery slope analogy that is where this leads us IMO.

When we have a pandemic and you feel it is wiser for your family to travel across country to safety and your government quarantines you when you are perfectly healthy instead because it feels those "measures are deemed necessary" is that something you will be o.k. with? You are not allowed to make decisions on your family's safety because the government feels they are a better judge. Who loves your family more than you? Who has more invested in keeping them safe and protected? An alphabet agency who did not see your children's first steps or your husband/wife's smile on your wedding day or you?

I know that scenario sounds extreme, but logically if this bombing would have been on an even slightly larger scale spanning another state or two, imagine the "measures deemed necessary" for that.

I understand where you are coming from and sometimes I hate that I look at the "slippery slope" side of things but it is not impossible that the above could happen. I think those of us upset by it are looking into the future and how scary it "might" be if things get out of control on a grand scale.

Sorry I butted in.... I will butt out now. I just thought maybe explaining it from more than one point of view might be helpful. You never know.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'm sure you are right, beezzer, there will be more events like this.

But don't you think that the rights and freedoms we in the West enjoy, have a price ?

In that occasionally, these rights and freedoms have to be suspended, hopefully for a bona fide reason, and we aren't used to it, and naturally some will rebel, which is to be expected.

This says a lot to me about the level of rights and freedoms we enjoy, when they are suspended

A thread-worthy question all by itself.

What would merit a suspension of rights and freedoms?

A man-hunt for a bomber?
A lone gunman shooting people?
Rumours of a shooter?
Hints of another bombing?

Right now, the American people have shown that it was okay to inhibit rights and freedoms for something like this.

reply to post by hoochymama


It has happened here. Not to the extent of this lockdown. But come on. There wasn't "martial law". They were doing a sweep, quadrant by quadrant. They were trying to find the guy. That is what LE would do in ANY situation whether it be a whole city or a residential block. You are just trippin.

These people got a day off from work and school. They were probably scared to death. Let's ask the residents how they felt about being immobilized for 18 hours.

Really, a bunch to do about nothing.

reply to post by GrantedBail
Your the one with experience with the whole "Night Stalker" ordeal. You tell me.

I dont live in Boston nor do I live in LA. I will say this, I wont stay in my house if a cop tells me to no matter what.

What went down in Boston today was Martial Law without anyone actually declaring it.

reply to post by beezzer


Such garbage. You are seriously over-reacting. There was a manhunt and a lockdown.

Martial law would be all about restricting your movements over a period of time. Having house to house searches looking for infidels. Dragging you to some area to question your affiliations. Your kids and wife pissing their pants. You would be scared to death of the authority and would try to comply because you didn't want your family to be hurt.

Dude! Martial law would be so so much different than what you just saw on the tee vee.

It is a complete exaggeration.

Definitely well done and thanks to everyone involved. What a ridiculously stressful and taxing day, some of those officers were working 18 hour shifts, jumping at shadows for the best part of a day (for good reason).
People complained that the suspect got away after the initial gunfight and how useless the forces are for that reason, but they apprehended him alive, which is more than many people expected.

reply to post by hoochymama


Respectfully, I would like to think there won't be any more terrorist attacks in America, or anywhere else, for that matter, but I like to think I am realistic. I can' t imagine what it would be like being in the middle of such an event, and would not wish anything like this on anyone.

I aren't looking for stars and flags, or popularity, ( I'm certainly not popular on A.T.S. ) and I will go against the concensus of opinion, If I think I am right.

reply to post by GrantedBail
In all do respect, they did restrict anyone from going outside for the period just minutes before they actually caught the suspect.

reply to post by Lulzaroonie
Exactly, what a waste of tax payer money when the FBI knew about the older Brother a year ago.

reply to post by GrantedBail

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by beezzer

 

Such garbage. You are seriously over-reacting. There was a manhunt and a lockdown.

Martial law would be all about restricting your movements over a period of time. Having house to house searches looking for infidels. Dragging you to some area to question your affiliations. Your kids and wife pissing their pants. You would be scared to death of the authority and would try to comply because you didn't want your family to be hurt.

Dude! Martial law would be so so much different than what you just saw on the tee vee.

It is a complete exaggeration.

I would simply refer back to my TSA analogy. How many here are disgusted by the heavy-handed approach seen at airports?

Yet it is accepted now by the populace.

We're giving ground, inch by inch. And we're saying, "Thank you" while we are doing it.

reply to post by hoochymama


OK brave guy.

Just kind of a silly argument.

Some guy is randomly shooting up your neighborhood. Cops ask all citizens to stay indoors as to not endanger themselves. They have your block cordoned off.

You go ahead and exercise your rights to be free.

reply to post by beezzer


I will give you that Beezer. You are so right. All that TSA bs is all about people getting used to a police state. I am so down with your analogy. I get that. This situation, however, is different.

reply to post by GrantedBail


I think the point is that an adult should have the right to walk into a 1,000 rounds from various sniper's rifles if they so chose. We wouldn't CHOOSE to do that (if we are sane) but we should have the right to do it. That's all it boils down to. It's as simple as that. We grow up with parents telling us when we can leave the house and when we need to be home. Most of us like to leave that behind when we grow up.

reply to post by GrantedBail
There have been many manhunts before this event and not once have they shut a City Down. Never!! I, with kids and as a man (dont worry about my screen name its an inside joke, if you know rap music you should get it pretty quickly) I woulndnt be scared of a 160lb wrestler running around the city. He got caught only becuz a Women noticed some bloody clothing leading to her boat.

If this City would of been "allowed" to function normally he would of been found much sooner than 18hrs after he excaped alot of officers.

reply to post by GrantedBail
you know i have been following this sense last night when it first broke , and very few know what happened even if they heard it, and or watched it,so to them that have there own thoughts, or see it as they see it, i say: let them be. there is no changing them. As to the op and a hundred more to the LEO's involved, a 1000 more good job, well done!!!!!

reply to post by GrantedBail
They didnt shut down a block they shut down the "whole city".

reply to post by GrantedBail

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by beezzer

 

I will give you that Beezer. You are so right. All that TSA bs is all about people getting used to a police state. I am so down with your analogy. I get that. This situation, however, is different.

I see more similarities than I do differences.

After all, it's all about your safety, isn't it?

The authorities are simply doing their job to make you safer.

Be it in an airport line or a man-hunt that shuts down a city like Boston or Waterford, it is simply for your safety.

Originally posted by beezzer

"I worry that we ceded our freedoms too readily for the illusion of safety."

We're giving ground, inch by inch. And we're saying, "Thank you" while we are doing it.

Coming in late on this topic (apologies), but I must side with beezzer, who has articulated my main concern of this whole operation from the beginning.

This exercise, successful as it was, will not be marked in history by it's end result of the suspect's capture, but more for the complete compliance of every citizen of that city to temporarily surrender their freedoms in the wake of some convoluted justice that came of it.

Don't think for one second that some have not taken note of the success of this, the first true test of Executive Order 16303. Move on, nothing to see here...