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Taking back America - where to go from here

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posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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Whether it comes out or not, after further review, that voting irregularities did play a part in this amazing Bush win, it changes nothing. There already have been numerous comments along these lines:


By the way, I voted for Bush senior in 1992. When Clinton was elected I was disappointed, but put aside my differences and supported him as President. Though I disagreed with many of his policies, I never attacked the man or the office for the eight years he was in power. I would hope the liberal members here at ATS can find it in themselves to do the same for the current President.


If only this president would stop the attack against the half of the country that does not endorse him & govern from the center, instead of the extreme Right? It is senseless to try and shame a populace into civility while their exisitence is under attack. Also, a Team Rove Administration is many things, but it will never be graceful, and it will always exact a blood lust of political revenge against all who opposed them. Just a look at the tactics employed against Bush Administration officials who spoke up will be testament enough to that.

A second term does not start with a clean slate; our historic deficit does not get put back to being a surplus. Our Towers & those souls don't get resurrected. Stand down orders don't get retracted and preventative actions taken.

So, what to do? Mourn the day, for sure, because the zeal & idealism brought to fore has to dissapate somehow. But, each day will bring new information. Each day will also bring more ammunition; Team Rove has proven itself prone to a hubris fueled sloppyness that leaves their flanks exposed. Each day will also motivate those who were single issue supporters to be forced to look at the big picture.....it will not be pretty.

The end result of this term, if it reaches it's completion without impeachment, will be a country so vigorously opposed to the Bush base, that no Rove Republican will stand a chance of being elected in our life times again.

Third party supporters have to form some sort of amalgam with the Democrats & disenfranchised Republicans. A fight is upon us & every "tribe" needs to understand better what they refused to understand now: the rules have changed because the referees wear the colors of the opposition. Overwhelming force ( and I do not mean violence ) is necessary to beat them or force them to reveal the scam....either way gets them removed.

So vent, post strategy or whatever you like, as with many I know, I'm comfortable that I left it all on the field & will be back to finish the job.




posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:27 PM
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take back america?I thought that was what we did last night.hopefully there will be no govern from the center,thats for people that lost an election.acording to all reports I have seen,bush won



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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I'm not an American but I think that the first thing to do is neutralize The Diebold Factor

If you can't have confidence in the process then everything else may be for naught.

Oh and it's best to keep confronting the Bush supporters and gloaters with the facts. They have not gone anywhere and I'm sure there will be plenty more lying to go around.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:40 PM
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Bout Time,

Until the democratic party learns that the way to persuade America is with reason rather than forcing it down there throats via court decisions.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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Dude, if you are going to quote me give me credit.

I would respond to your post but there is no point. Your dislike of the Bush Administration and Carl Rove in particular blinds you to any type of debate.

The President could create world peace, cure Aids, develop cold fusion and coach the Dolphins to a Superbowl and you could still find nothing good to say.

You claim to be a centerist but your posts make RANT look like a Baptist minister. And yes, I am still pi$$ed about the whole pedophile thing.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:46 PM
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that voting irregularities did play a part in this amazing Bush win,


I hope that you are aware of the fact that many people who tried to vote Bush had problems because Kerrys name kept popping up instead. Based on our experiences in California and what we heard from someone who worked the polls in California, if voting irregularities occurred, it was more widespread that it worked in Kerrys favor in the State of California.

Jemison



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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I'm all for competition Bout Time and I think that's where it starts. The dems lost Daschle. I think we need to see a good Dem prevail as a strong leader to counter the GOP controlled government. Reagan had Tip and Clinton had Newt. Someone needs to step up.

Secondly, they need to take note of the election and issues - the dems need a good moderate. They gave us the most liberal senator to challenge Bush and now they're wondering why they losts when states are stiking down gay marriage left and right, get a clue guys. BT, you're talking about force and fight, wrong approach, imho. I'd like to hear some ideas from the Dems, good ideas. Good policy and good understanding of the issues.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Seth Bullock
Dude, if you are going to quote me give me credit.



I did not want to make it about you and me owning your candy azz in debate of the facts!
, Seriously though, I took it as a quote being emblematic of the wrong perception on too many Americans parts: there are those ( who happen to be white/professional/straight/drug free ) who are severely disenfranchised, so the old post-election-make-like-nothing-bad-was-said-tact in not applicable.
In watching all the C-Span that made my eyes bleed, one quote jumped out at me as to where I want to get America "back" to: they where talking about a 1960's presidential campaign ( forget the candidates) and how they were going to split a plane charter to get to the state! The civility, which only comes after Diebold crony contract destruction & State Sec.s not throwing out Ohio registrations because they're on the wrong weight paper, would be a beutiful thing to get back to.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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as mentioned by Bout Time
Taking back America - where to go from here


Try moderation of pride, hatred, and anger and reach out a hand?
Aggressive to combative attitude will not succeed and will amount to being a fruitless venture.

It will take both sides working together to achieve a real victory for the people.

As has been previously mentioned, reason should be the preferred, and frankly, is the true course of action...not anger, not hatred, and definately not a combative attitude.



seekerof



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by Bob88
I'd like to hear some ideas from the Dems, good ideas. Good policy and good understanding of the issues.


It was there & it was ther in spades, it just did not effect radical ears. Pride yourself for being a Republican & Moderate, but that's not what put Bush in the White House ( on the surface, anyway!).
You said it yourself: Gay Marriage. It tipped the scales. One candidate was the true moderate & endorsed states rights. One candidate endorsed a Constitutional Amendment - the first one to be [b] for discrimination of rights. He's the one in the White House. The Moderates took the right angle & lost to the Radicals.

I am all for reason; reason, however, lost in this election. Reason and vetting of plans to move our country forward were reviewed & dissected by every editorial board of every major newspaper who has Pulitzer Prize winning SME's on many of the same subjects ( war/economy/social issues). They overwhelmingly chose Kerry's vision.

So where do we go from here? We'll never get the Democrats to endorse discrimination, so gay marriage will be just as hot in 2008.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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C'mon guys and gals. You knew it would happen, didn't you?

The winning candidate gets a majority of the popular vote and wins the electoral college. Therefore the only way they 'could possibly' have won is by cheating at the polls. God forbid the American people actually make a choice.

Many of the provisional ballots in Ohio, by the way, when counted will actually increase the margin of victory. Many Republicans were turned away, had their voter registration boggled (as in my case), and were simply never turned in, therefore they had to vote provisionally.

In my case, I actually made the mistake of claiming the Republican prty on my form rather than calling myself neutral. As a result, my registration, even though my wife and I registered at the same time and from the same place (she claimed no affiliation, had no problem) was registered officially in the wrong precinct. They tried to make ME vote provisionally, and I had a fit. I made them call the clerk's office and verify that I was indeed registered, and since I made such a fuss, I was eventually allowed to vote regularly.

Voter disenfranchisement did occur in this election. By far, though, the evidence suggests it favored the opposition by a large margin. I bet Bush would have won by more than 4% of the popular if all the provisional and questioned ballots nationwide were counted.

The Democrats tried to steal this one, but the American people triumphed.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 06:29 PM
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America has a long and hard history of not accepting what is right. There was a time when half of America didn't want blacks drinking from the same water fountains, or half of America thought it was ok to exclude Jews from neighborhoods. We just have to keep on fighting the good fight for civil rights and liberty, and eventually the ignorant will become educated. America may of stumbled, but we are a strong country and we're not down yet!



Keep hope alive!



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 07:22 PM
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None have discussed the main topic on voters' minds - sense of morals.

Why does Bush get the nod over Kerry here? Hmmm....

What's done is done people. Crying about it and being combative only serve to continue to divide us all. Let's figure out a way to make it all work.

You have four more years - live with it, and decide to be UNITED Americans or DIVIDED Americans.

Just my opinion...



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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BT, a consitutional amendment would be perfect for this issue when you think about it, the states are very, very much involved in the process. It's getting to the point that states may be able to go their own path with a constitutional convention on this issue.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by natas
None have discussed the main topic on voters' minds - sense of morals.

Why does Bush get the nod over Kerry here? Hmmm....

What's done is done people. Crying about it and being combative only serve to continue to divide us all. Let's figure out a way to make it all work.

You have four more years - live with it, and decide to be UNITED Americans or DIVIDED Americans.

Just my opinion...


Want to know who spends their time by helping to deliberately divide Americans?...That's right. It's Bush and his cronies. So don't try and preach this America united BS onto anyone...



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 07:50 PM
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You sure do your part to be divisive, don't you?

Give me some examples - I'll give you some examples of where liberals do that sort of thing. There was this post right above mine - by some person namd Thorfinn...oh! That was you.

Stepping over that mudslinging puddle, let me reiterate - we have to find a way to become UNITED - not separated.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:07 PM
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This is our Goldwater. This is our time to firm out our true strategy and recover from the wounds of 2000 onwards, to set out a vision for the democratic party.

For those unaware of a "goldwater"...here...

In 1964, the Lyndon Johnson beat Barry Goldwater by 23 points. Goldwater managed to carry just 6 states and Johnson won the electoral college 486-52. But the conservatives didn't give up. They didn't spend a lot of time wringing their hands. They regrouped and fought back. By 1968, Nixon crushed Humphrey in the electoral college 301-191 and won the popular vote by a million votes. If you oppose Bush, now isn't the time to feel sorry for yourself. Now is the time to get to work.

DailyKOS

But, if you want to get creative/vindictive... Shut off the welfare.

"I also have a substantive recommendation to the Blue states: Do all that you can to shut off the spigots. Completely. Shut it down. All of it. No more sucking on the government's teat for the Red states. Transform the rhetoric of your Republican brothers into practice: Slash federal spending (is that still a Republican position?). Wipe out the farm subsidies. Eradicate all block grants to the states. End the transfer of thirteen cents out of every Blue State Tax Dollar to the Red states (call it "Real Welfare Reform".) Replace every dollar of reduced federal spending with a dollar of in-state spending."



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 09:20 AM
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We will look to 2008 as the new American renissance in this country. It will be a non-Republican run of likely 16 years.
I'm all for seeing the solutions to our current situations - but since nothing was ever offered, except more of the same as the solution, I'm dumbfounded as to how it will be pulled off?



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