**Civil War Watch**

If we cant get Bush impeached, then I say we have a civil war to oust his a55 out of the office. As far as a plan to fill the void that would be left, we could always go back to the constitution in its original form and begin to actually follow it and let everyone have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of land ownership. Thats right, the constitution used to say pursuit of land ownership instead of pursuit of happyness. Look it up. The fact is, America is divided right down the middle. The last time it was this divided was about 140 years ago. Now go take a look at what happened then and tell me a civil war is not possible. Not only is it possible, but its highly probable.

Nobody knows if we will see a civil war here or not. However the probability of a civil war in the near term just lifted somewhat. I don't kow the exact forumula to a civil war but it seems there are some volatile components that have just been thrown into the mix:

1) Bush now has the numbers to pass his agenda in the lower and upper house and the supreme court. At least half the population will be opposed to his agenda and we will almost certainly see protests in the streets the next 4 years. As we all know these start off peaceful and end up more and more violent.

2) From what I have been hearing Kerry supporters feel betrayed that Kerry gave up too quickly and are not prone to listen to his call for unity.

3) The divide between the haves and have nots is growing at a rapid pace.

This is what we have right now. I don't feel these alone would spark a civil war. However the igniting force may come from:

4) Massive civilian and US casulaties in Iraq.

5) Dow Jones dropping below 8000. From what I have been hearing this is no longer just an outside chance as money is pouring out of the country.

6) Oil at $70 per barrel.....thats around $2.70/80 for a gallon of gas for you and me.

These three elements are far from certain but if occur and are added to the first three existing elements may combine to form a ignitable combination.

Some highly unlikely but very combustable elements that may crop up are:

7) New evidence comes to light proving Bush and his team falsified reports to sway the US to come together to invade Iraq.

8) Evidence of electoral fraud is exposed.

These last 2 are remote at best but would do the most damage.

Lets keep an eye out if items 4-6 do in fact occur and we all need to be alarmed if 7-8 come to fruition.

mrdependable:

I think that if the following is confirmed:

8) Evidence of electoral fraud is exposed

via the diebold machines and:

* Bush refuses to leave

then it will be an interesting situation.

Amen, to that Kidfinger.

Harmonious one, the void left, will initially be filled by a crude from of community government. That is not for us to decide, the freedom fighers, are only there to fight for their freedom and rights; their rights to their privacy, their pursuit of happiness and land, and security, and once they get that, then the rest will follow too.

Yes, I am well aware, everything happening here, is being monitored, and I am well aware that if either of us step over the mark, we are at great risk. Do you want to live under fear? How can we grow positively when the environment we live in is negative? I do not respond well to absolute power and control. I believe in my spiritual rights, the right of free will, the right of happiness, the rights of truth and the right of self. I will never compromise these rights for all the wealth or all the power in the world, then I certainly would not compromise them for fear.

I just saw someone say Kerry in his speech, said something about civil unrest developing in US, and the possibility of a civil war, in another thread. Can someone validate this?

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Whats funny is that I think most people are looking at the wrong precpective when they are thinking "civil war" in that the majority of the people will be attempting to overthrow/replace the current govermental system.

There is currently an active Anti-Bush/ Anti-War campaign going on in California. These people are going to start to piss off the average citizen whos children are fighting in Iraq currently BY Choice. They choose to be part of the armed services knowing they could go to war. In fact a HUGE enlistment roll occured after 9/11 by these very same men and women who wanted to do something, who wanted to fight for our Country, who wanted to fight for YOU. And now the people that they have put their lives on the line for are going to turn their backs and say Anti-War Anti-Bush WAR is WRONG and try and detere our Goverment from spending the needed funds to ensure our troops can win in Iraq. This is where the "civil war" will start. The common people whos kids are in the war and want to see it resolved as well as ensure that "WE" as Americans can remain safe from rouge terrorists threats. Vs these stupid morrons that are calling for our troops to be pulled out of Iraq before the situation is controlled over there, These same people want to impeach Bush, that voted for Kerry who would have sold us out to the world in exchange for vows of co-operation from weak, spinless coutnries like France.

Your civil war is going to happen (just like in the 1800's) between those people that support the current administration and the values that this Country was built on, and the spinless, weak and cowardly people that would rather be oppressed then to stand up for their freedoms. Whos only motives are to cause the Goverment pain and anguish. These people would be the ones to torch the goverment buildings, fight with police, march and riot in the town squares and deface goverment property, they will be meet by Pro-Goverment supports and fights will break out and then bigger and bigger counter attacks until the Country is divided and embroiled in a political civil war.

Yes, I agree with what your perspective on the civil war too, robertfenix. I think it is going to be a combination of civil war between the people, as well as between the government. It will be a mess that is assurred.

We can see, there are some mindless drones, that support this government on an emotional level, some are even looking on Bush as their messiah. I am sure they will feel it their right, to fight against any resistance he faces. This is when a bloody civil war will develop. However. once everyone in US realises, who their common enemy is, then I feel the people will combine and revolt against the oppressive government. How much blood shed between the people, before they realize this, probably long enough.

Do you know who those people are likely to be that will accept oppression and even fight for it? The same people that could not careless for the patriot act, WACO, Miami, Seattle, Oregon, Portland, war on Iraq, 9/11
These are the kind of ignorant folk, that only view the world as big as what their eyes can see, and what benefits it has for them, even if it comes at the expense of others. These are the kind of people that allow these draconian governments to flourish.

To quote John Titor, irrespective of if he was a genuine or not: "People hate you in the future" I can actually see people of the future looking back on this time, and having nothing but utter disgust for us.


[edit on 4-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

My understanding is, one state voted to secede if Bush were re-elected. Three other states have secession on the debate table.

Texas never formally re-entered the Union after the first Civil War; but I can see and feel--here in the Coyboy Capital of the world--the complacency is SOOO thick, you can "cut it with a naff."

It's not idle speculation when the behavior of the Leader of the US and his spoken words are so profoundly out of sync, that the rest of the world is actually shuddering in fear and trembling; and genocide--no, "omnicide"--is the modus operandi in place.

Horrifying, to say the least.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Even though many here seem to be proponents for such an 'event', I predict that such an 'event' is highly unlikely and will NOT take place any time soon.

then nothing will change. we will fall further and further into the abyss of coorperate comodity and our power will whither away.

Were you sleeping the other night? Our power didn't just wither away, it seems to have been taken in one fell swoop, by a GOP controlled company named Diebold, just a cog in the wheel of what many call the NWO...

Well the above is an idea at any rate...one that I sincerely hope isn't correct. But I'm surrounded by people, many of whom are republicans, who did not vote for Bush, and yet he carried the county. At my polling station, almost everyone was wearing Kerry stickers, buttons, etc., at least with 10-1 representation....so yes, I'm a little perplexed.

*pulls up his jack boots and practices his goose-stepping...*
"Ok, zee gays go in dis side, unt zee arabs go in dis vun...Start ze showers!"

I guess I am lucky that I am a German/Christian then. I abhore the genocide that was perputrated on defenseless people. And I would hope that the rest of the "peace loving" muslim and islamic world will soon realize that radical's that hope to see the "western" world dead and replaced with islam are only drawing the anger of a VERY powerful group of people that once pushed will not accept anything other then total victory even at the maximum expense of innocent life.

The United States was "pushed" into the war with Axis in WWII and in a dramatic and deadly choice obliterated thousands of innocent lives to end a global conflict. That ideology still remains even to this day with the Bush administration. Do not anger the American people to the point where there is no return. The safety of "arab/muslim" people would no longer be guaranteed in America once that line has been crossed. They will be viewed as "inflitrators and Infidels" just as I am sure US Forces are seen in their Countries. The only difference is that US Forces are clearly and openly identified as such and the perputrators of violence and deceit (terrorists) veil themselves like the cowards they really are, leaving us no choice but to drop all this PC correctness and to round up any and all suspected or otherwise affiliated "threats" to the American general public.

IS THIS WHAT THEY REALLY WANT? DO THEY REALLY WANT TO ENRAGE the American public which will only encourgage the radical "red neck" mentality to join the armed services so that they can go KICK SOME BUTT and avenge (what they think) is a massive slap in the face but a cowardly enemy? Are they truely prepared to accept the consequences that they will have brought upon their beloved religion. You can capture some defenseless civilians and cut of their heads but can you really withstand a systematic destruction and annihlation of your "cause" to the point that when your operators are "discovered" they will be hunted down and beaten to the point that you will no longer be able to convince poor uneducated and unwise children to join your radical movements.

robertfenix,

Do you know how politicans work? It's not changed much over the course of history, as it works everytime, it's perfect:

1. Divide and rule
2. Incite revolution
3. Propaganda

Do you know how they do it? Under a veil of mist.

What is happening here?

We are being divided as a human race, into arabs and westerns, creating the "us" and "them" attitude.

A revolution is being incited, between both of us, with an event, that widens the gap further between our peoples, breeding hate and alienation.

Our emotions are being played upon, by feeding us propaganda, exploiting our psychological weaknesses, entraining us on to a single thought and emotion and galvanizing us into war.

The puppeters of this drama remain behind-the-scenes, watching us fight with each other, while they co-operate, have a cup of tea, and then later intervene to stop it just in time for the next show.

You sound like an intelligent person to me, but, why are you falling for the oldest political tricks in the book? This is not about about the arabs, or the Islamic terrorists, or Osama Bin Laden, it's about us, and it always has been.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by mrdependable
2) From what I have been hearing Kerry supporters feel betrayed that Kerry gave up too quickly and are not prone to listen to his call for unity.

Kerry gave up because that's what his party wanted him to do. The only way for the Democrats to run Hillary in 2008 was for Kerry to NOT be in office.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
My understanding is, one state voted to secede if Bush were re-elected. Three other states have secession on the debate table.

If this were true, wouldn't a Google News Search turn up something? Certainly, it wouldn't be kept a secret by the liberally-biased media.

[edit on 11/4/2004 by Midnight Watchman]

I've supplied this before and I'll supply it again:

URL: dictionary.reference.com...

civil war
n.

1. A war between factions or regions of the same country.
2. A state of hostility or conflict between elements within an organization: �The broadcaster is in the midst of a civil war that has brought it to the brink of a complete management overhaul� (Bill Powell).
3. Civil War The war in the United States between the Union and the Confederacy from 1861 to 1865. Also called War Between the States.
4. Civil War The war in England between the Parliamentarians and the Royalists from 1642 to 1648.

URL: dictionary.reference.com...

Revolutionary War
n.
The American Revolution.

American Revolution
n.
The war between the American colonies and Great Britain (1775-1783), leading to the formation of the independent United States.

Is anybody really ready to accept the consequences of a revolutionary war? That is what you'd need if you think the current system of government needs to be replaced. Are you ready for the economic fallout that arises when your the strongholds of your opponent (factories, offices, government buildings) are destroyed? That's what you do in a war -- you attack your enemy's bastions of strength. If anyone thinks they can overthrow the government without doing so they are sadly mistaken.

There are those who say that the Pentagon hates Bush/Rumsfield because they micromanaged the Iraq war and didn't let the generals do their jobs. If those managers (that's what they are, the leaders are in the field inspiring their troops to do their jobs despite the risks) rise up and take control of the government, do you think it will be any better? So people are unhappy with our re-elected President, it's nice to have that choice, to have the freedom to say that without fear of persection or prosecution. Do they think a military coup to place a leader from another party will suddenly change everyone's way of life? McDonald's workers would now make $25.00 per hour? That's great until McDonald's shuts down due to extreme labor costs. Or do you want to pay $15.00 for a BigMac?

I think a lot of the arguments from people who talk about spreading the wealth and this and that don't understand capitalism. It's not a political system -- it's an economic system. It's a system that allowed us to become the greatest nation on earth. Along with that come the problems that you would expect -- greed, abnormal distributions of wealth, etc.. Well, another fact people forget is that in most cases the workers don't contribute their own capital to start a business. The profits are shared amongst the workers -- it's called a pay check. If there were no profits there'd be no paychecks. If all these workers want to strike it rich then do it the way most, not all, people do it -- hard work, determination, sound business strategies, etc.

Anyone who wants to live in a socialist country can move to France.

If I were the Left, I wouldn't be pushing quite so hard for a civil war.


Think about it... both the military and the gun nuts are going to be on the Right's side, whereas the Left will have environmentalists, artists, and college professors.

You don't fight a war with an army made of pacifists. The Right would open up an economy-size jug of whoop-ass on you guys.




(p.s. flame away; if there's a war I'm not fighting for any of you crazy bastards )

Look how fast militias formed after Waco and Ruby Ridge and look how fast the Feds backed off from making those scenarios again. If the government gets carried away they'll find their ass in a sling right quick.

those who call for civil war have not studied the last one fought here. i am from Gettysburg, my avatar indicates such. at Gettysburg there was one 3 day battle, estimated to be around a hundred fifty thousand troops engaged. that was 1863. Gettysburg still has one of the largest vulture populations on the east coast. You tough guys figure it out

Other: Perhaps one of the most mysterious bird stories surrounds the Black Vultures of Gettysburg. For over 100 years more than 900 Black and Turkey Vultures have gathered amongst the canyons of the Gettysburg National Military Park in Pennsylvania. It is said that the first birds appeared on the 1st July, 1863. This was the final day in a battle which saw 50,000 men and thousands of horses die. The men were buried, but the corpses of the horses were left lying on the battlefield. The vultures dined in style, they may even have stayed the winter and scavenged on the frozen carcasses. Twelve months later the vultures returned, something they do to this very day.....

www.lairweb.org.nz...

That was a stupid, foolish and ignorant post. People here are too patriotic to create civil unrest, we live side by side each other and it would be just wrong and not prudent to create a war just over a foolish presidential victory.

Is a civil war a wise thing to do, as in a war instigated by the public? I am not sure, I personally wouldn't advise it, but regardless of what happens, civil war is inevitable, wether it's after US attacks Iran/Syria, or reinstates the draft and issues national ID cards or suspends the constitution in the event of a terrorist attack. Whichever we look at it, we get a civil war anyway. So which is better, for the people to start it, or the government to? You decide.

It would TAKE alot for a civil war to abrupt in the US. First off the registered voters in this country did speak, the majority of registered voters wanted Bush, I wanted Kerry but sometimes we dont get our way. There was one post i was reading where someone claim the majority of the American people didnt want Bush, that person was probably right, but they didn't care enough to vote, ergo they shouldn't be complaining. I just dont see a civil war happening in America unless our rights are infringed upon on a huge scale, and if America isnt a democracy anymore than you'll see a civil war, and if it does come I doubt it will come for a very very very long time.

You mean, civil war is inevitable if any one of your melodramatic, sensationalist worst-case scenarios pan out?

Just like the dozens of others in the Predictions and Prophecies forum, that hundreds of people have posted over the years?

You know, the ones that have a correctness rate of about one in six thousand?




This has been your reality check. And when I give you one of those, you know for damn sure that you're out there.