Originally posted by SkyFox2
The United States is a great and powerful nation. The people are nationalist, they will fight for their land. I cannot see America actually being over-taken by a stronger foe, or foes. The cost of war is signifigant, look at how much money needs to be spent rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. To defeat America would mean the countries who attacked would have to support it. America is large, heavily populated and heading towards economic failure. Not even the mighty European Union would wish to fight the propoganda blooded Americans. The end would not justify the means, economically.

I do not expect the United States to continue down the path in which it travels today for more than another fifty years, but I don't think the USA will be consumed by an enemy force. The US, instead, will be consumed by its own force, by its own debt.

Inside the US, prices are going up, interest rates are low, and allegedly (contradictory to price increases) inflation is low and holding steady. Inflation is debatable at the moment, many say the statistics Washington is showing the world in regard to inflation is incorrect. If this is so, America may not even have another 50 years.

We will just have to see how exactly the politcal watchdog, the global police, the warriors without a cause fall and I tell you now, that I believe the cause will be entirely internal, not external. It will most likely be an economic crisis which is the cause, but what exactly will be done to cause the end of the USA is we know it is a wonder.

I suppose it is possible that when the stock markets crash, GNP falls to an 1800s low, citizens no longer can afford McDonalds as their income is sliced in half, but inflation is still "not applicable" a civil war could very well take place. We might even get to see The Republic of America become America The Communism. How ironic that would be.

The people are not nationalist had they realized what were becoming. As long as the US Citizens are blind little sheeple, they will continue to follow the US govt, and will continue to put their money invested into them.

The way to truly, make the United States Government fall at their knees, is by taking all of your money out of the banks. Had everyone done this, Banks would close, the Federal Reserve would be going up in all arms, and the President would have hell on his front porch.

As for the Civil War. It is only a coming attraction, the next terrorist attack will be the final one, because they will have complete control over the United States, Canada, Mexico and a few other Carribbean Islands. That is many countries, able to provide revenue for the United States' onslaught.

Plus, if the European Nation, isn't careful they could wind up on the World Police's places to take over. So sooner or later, they will have to step up to the plate and challenge the USA.

The only one with a fighting chance against us, is China. Russia is backing the NWO completely, China just has the balls, to pull something risky.

Though, I do love how the USA is trying to "help" Ukranians in their elections...

Helping the ukranians win their election my ass, america is just getting involved because they dont want a russian backed president in their, it just another way america takes control without actually invading

That is what I was implying. And Plus, we cannot hold our own elections without fraud being involved. "Free Country"...Right

Originally posted by SkyFox2
The United States is a great and powerful nation. The people are nationalist, they will fight for their land. I cannot see America actually being over-taken by a stronger foe, or foes. The cost of war is signifigant, look at how much money needs to be spent rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan. To defeat America would mean the countries who attacked would have to support it. America is large, heavily populated and heading towards economic failure. Not even the mighty European Union would wish to fight the propoganda blooded Americans. The end would not justify the means, economically.

I do not expect the United States to continue down the path in which it travels today for more than another fifty years, but I don't think the USA will be consumed by an enemy force. The US, instead, will be consumed by its own force, by its own debt.

Inside the US, prices are going up, interest rates are low, and allegedly (contradictory to price increases) inflation is low and holding steady. Inflation is debatable at the moment, many say the statistics Washington is showing the world in regard to inflation is incorrect. If this is so, America may not even have another 50 years.

We will just have to see how exactly the politcal watchdog, the global police, the warriors without a cause fall and I tell you now, that I believe the cause will be entirely internal, not external. It will most likely be an economic crisis which is the cause, but what exactly will be done to cause the end of the USA is we know it is a wonder.

I suppose it is possible that when the stock markets crash, GNP falls to an 1800s low, citizens no longer can afford McDonalds as their income is sliced in half, but inflation is still "not applicable" a civil war could very well take place. We might even get to see The Republic of America become America The Communism. How ironic that would be.

Americans need to understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism. A patriot loves his land and his people. A nationalist loves his government. The patriot voluntarily does what is necessary to protect his land and his people. A nationalist blindly obeys his government.
-- Charley Reese

Charles Reese sounds like an intelligent individual. His words are correct, and his meaning is sheds light on the US Citizens' propoganda-ism. The people cannot remain ignorant for all time, though. Eventually a change must occur. Eventually, the people must stand strong in order to save themselves, and their prized way of life.

Responsibility is not normally just assumed. In most cases, it is thrust upon the newly responsible. The American people have always been responsible as they have allowed these things to come to them. They have relinquished their rights in order to have a more powerful, prosperous nation. Exactly what the framers of the constitution warned them against. They refused any responsibilty, but it will be shown to be reality, and to them, thrust upon them.

Nothing comes easy in life, and for the people of the USA, things are too easy. For the moment, ingorance is bliss, but as time continues on ignorace becomes intelligence. Once that level of intelligence is ahieved, the world will have to adapt, the world will have to reinvent itself in order to sustain truth.

There is no logic in assuming no radical change will occur in most of out lifetimes. The change will happen, the evolution from slaves to aware beings will take place. The occupation of the Americas (and other territories held by the USA) will be discontinued as the tyranny and corruption is destroyed.

I believe this to be fact, comfort will cease and at that point, the people will become restless and question its leaders, develop a sense of self. Does anyone disagree that such a thing is inevitable?

Its kind of ironic how things have turned out between the USA and britain. We founded you so in theory we should be protecting you correct and in most cases we need your help to finish the job as much as I hate to say it

I am in full agreement with your thoughts. The French philosopher said it very well:

"a society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves"
-- Bertrand de Jouvenal

Denying this only further stimulates the postulate, bringing about the proof of its truthfulness closer.



Sincerly

Cade

Civil War in the 1860 sense entailed two well-financed sides shooting lots of bullets into each other's bodies. There will be little financing for the so-called "Civil War: Part Deux" unless some nation is able to secret ammo into the US and give it to Johnnie Reb.

If anything, what you will have will be a massive (though on CNN it'll look small) rebellion. The side that controls the media megaphone will label these as "McVeigh-type Folks". Just plain white Americans who went nuts and grabbed for their guns. People who get their news from the mass-media will not need labels for the non-white rebels, I expect.

In the end, none of us escapes death. We can, however, choose whose arms we die in, and what sort of person dies in ours.

sp

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Civil War in the 1860 sense entailed two well-financed sides shooting lots of bullets into each other's bodies. There will be little financing for the so-called "Civil War: Part Deux" unless some nation is able to secret ammo into the US and give it to Johnnie Reb.

If anything, what you will have will be a massive (though on CNN it'll look small) rebellion. The side that controls the media megaphone will label these as "McVeigh-type Folks". Just plain white Americans who went nuts and grabbed for their guns. People who get their news from the mass-media will not need labels for the non-white rebels, I expect.

In the end, none of us escapes death. We can, however, choose whose arms we die in, and what sort of person dies in ours.

sp

Ha, as if minorities will revolt. Why do they come here? To live a better life, not overthrow the government. Besides, at this rate, whites will be a minority by mid-century, so they can just take over then.

Oh, and by the way, nations would get ammo into the U.S. After all, China helped finance Clinton's reelection campaign in exchange for nuclear secrets. So I think they'd have a stake in it, to ensure continuing dominance of the Chinese Empire (China, Manchuria, Sinkiang, Hong Kong, Inner Mongolia, Tibet) in the Far East.

I am more or less convinced now that there will be a US civil war this year as a direct result of the Iran war and possible draft. I predict that there will be a major rebellion by the people leading to several events of police brutality by the state.

If you really want to use weapons against the government, why not use real weapons? Look up the tesla howitzer, look up how to build a water-based engine on keely.net because you know they're going to ration gas. Look up how to purify water by splitting hydrogen and oxygen with a 9-volt battery. By exciting the same gases with an electrical charge, you could recombine them to make water, or you can use the energy release to power a car. If you need energy to power those weapons, look up the motionless electromagnetic generator. Blueprints are available online.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am more or less convinced now that there will be a US civil war this year as a direct result of the Iran war and possible draft. I predict that there will be a major rebellion by the people leading to several events of police brutality by the state.

Im not too sure about a civil war anymore.
i know America is split, but its kinda grey at the moment.

Originally posted by HarmoniusOne
To all of those who seem to be encouraging this type of action....3 things...

1. If you are serious about this, you had best have a solid plan for replacing the current system. If you are successful in destroying the one that exists, you will create a vacuum that will need to be filed immediately with a better system or what we will end up with is those seeking power and self interests...again. If you don't have a solid plan, we the American people will be worse off than we are right now.

2. How will you rebuild a war torn country who's money is no longer of value and who's infrastructure has been destroyed? Not to mention protect said country from opportunistic enemies who would love nothing more than for the citizens of the US to do their job for them.

After this country gets torn apart and money is worth nothing then the E.U. (european union) will come in and finish us off or ask us if we would like to join there currency and then prepare for the end of the world.

Originally posted by yuanshao101
Helping the ukranians win their election my ass, america is just getting involved because they dont want a russian backed president in their, it just another way america takes control without actually invading

I think we would have been better off if the russian backed canidate would have won because it will only make the european union stronger when they join.

Originally posted by nwo vs me
After this country gets torn apart and money is worth nothing then the E.U. (european union) will come in and finish us off or ask us if we would like to join there currency and then prepare for the end of the world.

How the hell would the EU finish off America? secondly how can you join the currency when your not even a European state?? really, enlighten me on this on....

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am more or less convinced now that there will be a US civil war this year as a direct result of the Iran war and possible draft. I predict that there will be a major rebellion by the people leading to several events of police brutality by the state.

That's just rioting, not civil war.

Everyone wants civil war but no one knows what a civil war is and no one knows who's fighting who.


So....
1. Who's fighting who in this "civil war" that you're convinced will happened?
2. Do you honestly believe regular Americans who are so against war will actually go to war?
3. Do you honestly think regular Americans who are so against war will actually go to war against the strongest army in the world?
4. How would they do that anyway?

Please pardon my butting in but I'd like to attempt address this last if I may Infinite.

While rioting does not qualify as a civil war it does not bode well for the health of any government. I for one do not want a civil war.

1. If there were a civil war the combatants would be Americans. It would likely be civilians and military forces against other civilians and military forces.

2. Very few people who oppose the current creeping tyranny are pacifists. Many pragmatic people oppose the current administration for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is the apparent abrogation of Constitutional, State, and civil rights. I do feel that it would take the equivalent of a land mine in the old lazy boy to motivate the average American to do much of anything much less take to the streets in armed insurrection.

Today’s youth may be a different story. Kids have much more energy than I do that’s for sure and isn't it “kids” that actually fight in wars? I may be incredibly old but I would still fight and die if need be to defend the Constitution just as generations of my forefathers have done.

A draft would really heat up dissent amongst fighting age youth and eventually insert dissenters into the ranks and a financial depression could change the social landscape dramatically.

3. & 4. Guerilla warfare has been shown to be very effective tactic against the United States military. It is really more a matter of resolve. The Viet Nam war stands as an example.
I believe that there are elements of the military that, if necessary, will assist in the restoration of the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights as the law of the land.

I also believe that if ordered to fire on the American people these same soldiers will turn and fire on the person that issued the order instead. That kind of thing happened in Viet Nam. In any case the Iraqi’s are giving us a go for our money and they don’t even have boots. We have SUV’s and there are millions of us.

We lost the tenth amendment a long time ago. Now we’ve lost the fourth, parts of the second, parts of the first and little bits and pieces of the rest of them. According to the current president, I, as a US citizen, can be detained indefinitely as an "enemy combatant" at his sole discretion. This is, according to him, not open to judicial review and he claims he does not have to obey a writ of habeas corpus. I could spend the rest of my life in a military prison without any judicial review, according to his statements.

My sincere hope is that we will be able to restore the Constitution as the law of the land through peaceful means but failing that I must defer to the Declaration of Independence:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right,

it is their duty,

to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

"Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached." Supreme Court Justice Scalia

Hello all! I think that civil war in the United States is extremely unlikely, and somewhat alarmist to suggest to begin with. The major divide in this country is the war in Iraq right now. That's clearly not enough of a catylist for civil war. If it were, it would have happened already. There haven't even been any protests about the war that amounted to much. Also, it's interesting to me that there were no war protests to speak of Before the war. Where were the tens of thousands of protesters that we whitnessed in the 60's? And let's not forget that as turbulant a time as the 60's were, there was no civil war. Let's suppose we invade Iran and restart the Draft. It's still an incredible strech of the imagination to predict civil war. Lots of people here disagree about where we are headed, but none of these disagrements so far have incited anything close to a revolutionary fervor.

[edit on 25-1-2005 by spike]

Without trying to incite revolutionary fervor let me state that I believe there are many deep divides in our country that have nothing to do with the war in Iraq and have been brewing for quite some time.

The steady abrogation of civil rights, the loss of a credible method of casting and counting votes, are two that come to mind immediately. I should also mention the two tiered justice system as well because when the courts are deemed to be inherently unjust it’s just a matter of time until the rulers loose their ability to rule. The rule of law must be respected or there is no law. Our government picks which laws it will deliberately break, which it will abide by, and which it will enforce (often selectively).

It is not required that one issue take primacy over all others but that the people perceive that they have lost all democratic and legal means for redress to grievances and have the will to throw off their oppressors.

There were plenty of protests before the Iraq war and there are plenty now. They don’t get covered in the mainstream media or they are down played perhaps this may be why it appears to you to be “nothing to speak of”.

One million women gathered to protest in Washington for women’s rights and it didn’t even get a mention in the mainstream media. One million protesting women was also considered “nothing to speak of”.

Perhaps it was an unintentional additional meaning to your choice of words but apt nonetheless.

Protests against the Viet Nam war incubated underground in the peace movement for years before taking on the gargantuan proportions of the anti-war demonstrations of the late sixties and seventies. I have not done a study but I suspect that we have had protests that rival the 60’s in numbers.

Yes civil war does seem like a somewhat remote possibility at this juncture but this thread is a watch and it seems to me that we are watching our country teeter on the brink of totalitarianism. I do not believe this is being “alarmist” so much as it is an acknowledgement of a terrifying reality.

"Yeah, I fought in the great Civil War of ought five. The war to end all wars they called it, or at least the war to end all civility. But your Big Man, you listen to him. The Big Man’s enlarged my mind. He's a poet-warrior in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he'll, uh, well, you'll say hello to him, right? And he’ll just walk right by you, and won't even notice you. And suddenly he'll grab you, and throw you in a corner, and say do you know that if is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you -- I mean I'm no, I can't -- I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's, he's a great Big Man. I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas -- I mean --"

WILLARD: "Stay with the boat."
Apocalypse Now (slightly changed for effect)

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am more or less convinced now that there will be a US civil war this year as a direct result of the Iran war and possible draft. I predict that there will be a major rebellion by the people leading to several events of police brutality by the state.

I disagree on the likelihood of a U.S. civil war and here's why:

The people generally opposed to the current administration don't own guns and are so afraid of them that they can't imagine ever owning a gun.

The people generally in favor of the current administration do own guns.