Where there is pleasure there must be suffering in a computer simulation

There is a thread that is doing the rounds in Recent posts at this present time titled

Physicists To Test If Universe Is A Computer Simulation

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That thread is looking at the scientific side of testing that hypothesis. My thread is to look at the philosophical implications of what it means to humanity if we are truely the creation of an advanced computer simulation.

The use of computers simulation relies on the use of complex mathematical agorithums which simulate the behavioural characteristics of the physical objects around us. Generally such simulations will model control systems, such as natural systems like the weather, or man made systems such as automation control in a factory process.

I highlighted these examples so to be able to make a point that control systems, have within them embedded sub control loops for ensuring the system doesnt become unstable.

Now hold that thought and look at the world around us and it is filled with many dualities, of which one of these is pleasure, Joy compared with suffering and saddness.

If life and reality is in actual fact really an advanced computer simulation sub-composed of control systems, then it wouldnt be surprising to find the algorithiums for stability; ensure that the amount of joy and suffering are always balanced.

If this is how the life simulation really works then this has drastic implication to our moral and religous code/beliefs doesnt it?

If the scientists do find strong proof we are in a computer simulation then how will you modify your moral conduct and religous belief?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Interesting.

But for me personally, it would be irrelevant. We are here, and that should be enough, continue on.
I'm sure there would be alot of denial and anger, and probably new religions springing up. I wouldn't be surprised if such a revelation led to a drastic increase in suicides as well.

But ultimately I think nothing would change, the world would continue as it is.

Do androids dream of electric sheep?

If I am a sim I guess the answer is yes to that question. I am sentient, self-aware and do indeed dream of things like myself.

First and foremost, if science came out and proved that we are a simulation I wouldn't believe it. Just because they can observe a program doesn't make it a computer simulation. It makes the universe designed, mathematically, by what must be assumed to be an intelligent designer.

Ermahgerd, I just realized the entire "we are a computer simulation!" hypothesis was created out of sheer desperation to keep denying the possibility of God!

What's really going on is that we found the fabric of existence, and it's organized with maths. Hmmmmm....

But I digress. I wouldn't change a thing. I might have to buy more guns to defend my family from all the crazies that would change their habits...

I would like to share a post I made a few years ago on another thread...I feel it fits much better within this one.. One thing that helped me to reconcile a lot of conflicting information, was when I began to realize that the karmic effect can be a very positive thing as well as negative. I am convinced that the law that says "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction " carries over into the energy of the conscious realm ( The energy created by our conscious experiences ). Once I began to realize this... I began to see that the positive energy potential in our next phase of existence will be determined by the height breadth and depth and randomness of the negative experiences in the present phase. As I contemplated the traumatic events that humanity has been subjected to I realized that it is the very intensity of these events that will fuel our positive experiences in the future. If this is the case we must ask ourselves ...how much would we want if it were up to us?? Answer.......As much as we can handle ( Otherwise we limit our pleasure in the next phase ). As I see it right now we have a tremendous amount of potential positive energy being kept in store for future use. As i believe that the experiences of this current life have been predominately negative. btw. The bible clearly supports this idea in a number of places.

Harry

Originally posted by blamethegreys
Ermahgerd, I just realized the entire "we are a computer simulation!" hypothesis was created out of sheer desperation to keep denying the possibility of God!

Except that the simulation hypothesis doesn't deny the possibility of god at all. As a matter of fact, it would strengthen it if anything. Whatever/whoever created the simulation would be god. It would be our creator.

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by blamethegreys
Ermahgerd, I just realized the entire "we are a computer simulation!" hypothesis was created out of sheer desperation to keep denying the possibility of God!

Except that the simulation hypothesis doesn't deny the possibility of god at all. As a matter of fact, it would strengthen it if anything. Whatever/whoever created the simulation would be god. It would be our creator.

edit on 19-4-2013 by Xaphan because: (no reason given)

I admit to not reading up on the Simulation Hypothesis before posting, and yes, your point crossed my mind before I clicked "reply".

I just couldn't stop myself from making that smart-ass point.

"Happiness" and "Unhappiness" is the same "feeling" from a different perspective.


"Fear" and "Excitement" is the same feeling in the body just looked at in different ways...


"Boredom" and "Peace" is the same feeling in the body just looked at in different ways . ..


If all of this is just "energy" and this is a "simulation" then we just need to control our own energy and the outside will change...

Stay with certain thoughts patterns and the emotions and actions will change.... meaning that WE affect the simulation!

In this case we need to do is keep focus on SELF how WE feel and the our responses and the "simulation" will change...

I have always known there was wisdom in the saying "smile now, cry later" or "laugh now, cry later" it gave me comfort during some hard times because I know it also works the other way, "cry now, smile later". Life for me, is kind of like a roller coaster, there are ups and downs, and if life seems depressing at times, don't worry, because before too long, you will be back on the "upward swing" of life again. But then, don't get too excited, because eventually- well you get the point XD

What you mean is not actually a 'simulation', it is an implementation. As a software developer would say, you have a set of interfaces (e.g. laws, rules), which you can implement differently. Basically, it does not make a big difference whether atoms are solid balls, or hollow spheres, or pure energy, or a set of bits in some expansive 3D memory modules. To us they are what they are, because even atoms are not the reality we deal with. We deal with sensory information, produced by our bodies, so atoms are a more 'low-level' implementation, which may have its own lower level implementation. Little changes because of that. Also, speaking about the positive/negative balance, you forgot one important thing: your negative experiences will not necessarily become your positive experiences, they may become the positive experiences of someone else. In the history of mankind many civilizations prospered at the expense of the others (e.g. Spartans and Messenians), and within those civilizations some people (the rich) drew their power and energy from other social classes. How would you know that you will be rewarded for your suffering in the afterlife, if energy can be transferred to others who will enjoy the good side of life, while you may continue to suffer in your next life? There are too many questions that arise if you simply believe in The Grand Zero (i.e. that the total sum of everything is always zero). I personally think there is more to it. Earth can be anything from an incubator or a sandbox to a battlefield or a place where energy is replenished (sorta how you pay for eternal life). But, in fact, this doesn't really change much in your life or how you handle it.

reply to post by mrkeen


To elaborate on my previous post I would like to say that I feel strongly that we are in what I would call the "seed/database creation" phase of our individual and more importantly corporate human experience. The seed that is being created is a database of information generated by our psycological and emotional experiences. Both on an individual as well as corporate level. That database is divided into both male and female experiences ( I believe that is what is made reference to in the book of Enoch regardding Leviathan and Behemoth). It may seem inconsequential that the data would be divided this way ...but I think we can safely say that it is the interaction between males and females in our present life that has generated some of the strongest and most intense human emotions.

What I believe will be done with this "seed/database" is that it will be utilized in an inverted mode under a new and expanded set of parameters ( The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a mustard seed which is the least of seeds but grows to be a great plant). I believe that our future lives will be as different from this life as much as a plant is different from the seed that it grows from. The reason that I say it will be utilized in an inverted mode is because the bible emphasizes in many places that the low places will be brought up the weak will be made strong and so forth. Imagine a baseline such as on an oscilliscope everthing below the baseline is considered a negative experience and everything above it is a positive one. I thing it would be the general consensus that the experiences of the current experience of humanity would be predominately negative or below the baseline. If it is inverted it is now predominately positive.

Having said all of this ... I just want to say that I do not believe that the next life will be an exact opposite of the current life only that the energy available for the creation ( By the creator ) of the next phase will be available because of the experiences individually and corporately of the current life. And that that energy can be utilized in an inverted state. I'm sure this theory needs much refining but that is the gist of what I believe.

Harry

reply to post by HarryJoy


Well, that's an interesting hypothesis. Even if there is no reincarnation, I believe, there should be some experience-sharing, or 'seeding' in your terminology, sorta when you are born you are given a combination of somebody else's experiences (spiritual level) as well as a combination of somebody else's genes (material level) and you try to live it through, test it, protect it and spread it via reproduction and information exchange. As for what comes next, after you are dead, I don't know. But this life is a very important phase and should be taken seriously. Though in many aspects it resembles a game.