How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)

reply to post by Mr Peter Dow


Thanks for the info. Sadly you can not win a war vs a idea or state of mind. It is like trying to defeat capitalism or communism. There is no defined enemy. You cannot defeat terrorism. That is a giant problem with your argument here. Secondly we will never renounce out strategic relationships with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. The value of the arrangement is outweighing the problems that they produce. The US is funding the Taliban right now as I type this... They did up till Sept 10th 2001 and do so currently. There is a new book out called Funding the Enemy discussing the current arrangement in Afghanistan. All you really need to do is look at poppy production since 9-11 to realize that there is a lot of money to be made. The US has a long History of playing both sides in many conflicts in our relatively short History.

The other point I will make is that our regime change has been a total disaster in both Iraq and Afghanistan. 11 years after the Taliban was defeated Afghanistan was named the most corrupt country on Earth at the end of 2012. It was number 6 on the current failed States list.

Frankly we have spent trillions of dollars and thousands of US service members have died as well as over million civilians in those two Country's. With current economic conditions we simply cannot afford any more wars that end up having a terrible impact on both them and the United States. You cannot force democracy on places that do not want it and whose very idea is alien to them.

Realistically your proposal has no chance of working. The regime change has been a unmitigated disaster. You cannot defeat an idea. What possibly makes you think that these people even want it? I could go on and on about why your 4 point plan would never work but am on my lunch break at work.

How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan (and win the war on terror)??

Air-drop laptops and smart phones all over the country.

Park a free internet satellite over the country.

Wait ten or fifteen years

Nice try

But we aren't "trying to win the war on terror"

It can't even remotely be won by the methods you describe. The USA is doing this far more subtly.

Take Pakistan for example, what would we do? antagonize them to a degree they use Nukes? Go right at them so China activates and fight them too?

No we have handled this well... Get on the ground, get the the locations and information as to where the bombs are, build an interdependence with China, let the terrorist continue, show proof, allow the situation to be unstable, have the cooperation of the great cultures locally China and India

And when the time comes.... we'll have the info and help we need to take them out preferably without them launching a single Nuke....we bide our time cooperate with the civilized nations get the defense systems in place, know what will be launched from where. Save a Billion lives.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Win the war on Terror? Here's a question for you.. How do we beat the terrorists we are openly funding and weaponising in Syria?

Well I would hope that all those we are funding and arming to help foster a reasonable outcome in the Syrian war are freedom fighters, not terrorists. But our Al Qaeda enemies seem to be taking a lead in the Syrian fighting against al-Assad because maybe our efforts to support the genuine freedom fighters are relatively modest compared to the support that Arab countries, such as Saudi Arabia, and maybe countries like Pakistan are giving to the Al Qaeda or other jihadi terrorists.

The issue that concerns me most about Syria is how the conflict there might backfire for our troops in Afghanistan with my concern being keeping our supply route options open and not getting our troops boxed in there and having to pay a very high price to supply them or get them out.

We can't really afford to fall out badly with both Pakistan and the countries to the North, including Russia, at the same time. We don't want all ground routes in and out of Afghanistan blocked or with extortionate pay-offs requiring to be paid. Yes we could do more with air supply but we don't yet have enough capacity to do it all that way.

I'd very much like to see a joint approach between the West and Russia for a post-al-Assad democratic Syria because I think that's the best way to bring peace in Syria.

Meanwhile Russia seems to want to back al-Assad to the bitter end which is really tragic for the people of Syria.

Holy wall of text Batman.

Has anyone found the end of the original post?

Who wants to be the one to tell the OP that he just wasted 35 hours of his life?

reply to post by Mr Peter Dow

I think the only solutions are :

1- stop government terrorism
2- stop supporting the radical islamists

then you win it. that is it !

Originally posted by drock905
This comes from friends who have served over there...

You have brave friends. Let us see how wise they are.

Originally posted by drock905
To win a "war" like this you don't need to drop more bombs you have to educate people.

Well what if you drop more bombs on those enemies who are stopping you from educating the people because the enemy is killing teachers and burning down schools?

Don't you remember what the Taliban did to Malala Yousafzai?

Originally posted by drock905
They said that the majority of people they meet in Iraq and Afghanistan were very decent people. They wanted the same things anyone wants. The problem they encountered was that decent people were being severely manipulated and corrupted by terror groups.

Your brave friends have wisdom too it seems.

We must defeat these terror groups. They are being sponsored by neighbouring states who are trying to burn down everything in Iraq or Afghanistan which does not answer to them.

This means we must confront the neighbouring states and either force them, kicking and screaming, to play a constructive role or regime-change them.

The neighbouring states have not been forced to do anything, they have been allowed to sew havoc and unleash their dogs of terrorist war and some neighbouring states such as Pakistan have been paid billions of US tax-payer dollars while backstabbing the US and its allies

Originally posted by drock905
Religious zealots would simply lie and brainwash people into be willing to kill themselves or convince their sons to for a cause they really didn't believe in.

They would, if we keep refusing to bomb their universities and colleges of zealotry. If we bomb their buildings down they will look much less convincing preaching from the top of a pile of rubble.

Originally posted by drock905
When your world is as small as these peoples are its easy to Be manipulated because you have no frame of reference.

And here is the weirdest thing of all. The most effective tool used by zealots to brainwash people to die for them is the satellite TV which we invented, built, launched, privatised, sold and gave to them to use against us.

The orbit of TV satellites is many times bigger than the world so actually their frame of reference is the earth as broadcast to from space, as big as it gets.

So it is the US and the West who is being manipulated, by Egypt and Pakistan, who we pay aid money to in the billions of dollars, which they use to run satellite TV stations to inspire terrorism against us.

Originally posted by drock905
It's not going to happen in 10 years it's going to take generations.

My plan is going to work as soon as it is put into practice.

Originally posted by drock905
Killing more peole and dropping bombs on families is just reinforcing what these terror groups are trying to achieve.

You are not describing my plan. If you want to criticise my plan you need to know what it is first.

I suggest that you read my plan first because you don't seem to know what I propose.

Then when you've read my plan maybe you'll understand that terror groups will be defeated by my plan, not in any way reinforced.

The one sure way to reinforce terrorists is to have peace talks with them as Panetta planned to (and maybe Hagel plans to also, though he's a new Defense Secretary so I'm not too sure yet if he's going the same way as Panetta, in which case, why the change of Defense Secretary?) so be reassured that it is no part of my plan to propose peace talks with the Taliban nor with any terrorist group.

Like thousands before you…

You’d be lucky if someone stand and make a prayer at your grave for the fun of it (most likely will be urinating on) if you are lucky to have one.

Dude.. stop this BS..please..lol

War on Terror? bunch of boogeyman BS, all those terrorist groups are white people, or trained by CIA ect...

Other countries might have problems, wait they didn't until the Russians and US invaded giving certain civilians weapons to fight their own people.

And educate them on what? were they stupid or something before the foreign armies arrived?

Listen, if these terrorist groups were such a big threat, America would be a battle ground already. America has problems also, you don't see Islamist coming to your country bombing the crap out of it telling you you got problems.

Your a bully OP just like the murderers you support.

Originally posted by amkia
12 years of slaughtering the innocents, dehumanizing the local populace, destructions of two ancient civilisations 15000 km away from your borders

You've just described what Saddam Hussein did to Iraq and the Taliban did to Afghanistan. It's also what terrorist groups supported by neighbouring countries are still doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We came to regime-change and rebuild but it is like trying to build a house while your neighbour is trying to burn your new house down as you are building it.

Look here's a Jordanian jihadi group brainwashing a young lad from their Sunni / Shiite community to go to Iraq and blow himself up as a suicide bomber and kill innocent civilians of the other Shiite / Sunni community



They are still doing that even since the US pulled its troops out, so it's got nothing to do with "resistance against the occupier". It's sectarian war, pure and simple, because it is sectarian regimes who are sponsoring the terrorist groups and sectarian war to achieve dictatorship of their sect is what they want.

We must stop the terrorists and insurgents wrecking peace and freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan, and that's what my plan if and when implemented would do.

Originally posted by amkia
and all you can come up with is these 2 pages of fictional diagrams and nonsenses..?

It's a plan and a good one.

Originally posted by amkia
Then damn and shame to all those generals and west point or military academies educated officers!

Well goodness knows what's being taught in those military academies these days, looking at how poorly the armies have been led, neglecting military essentials like securing supply routes.

Originally posted by amkia
I tell you what…

Move out in peace, before they move you in shame.

I like winning the peace better and moving at a time of our own choosing.

Originally posted by amkia
Never forget the Vietnam.

I won't. Don't you forget the success we made of WW2 in terms of post-war Germany and Japan, now both very successful economies.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by drock905

 

Religious zealots would simply lie and brainwash people into be willing to kill themselves or convince their sons to for a cause they really didn't believe in.

This cartoon is spot on...

edit on 19-4-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

No, that cartoon is wrong but this video is spot on.

reply to post by Mr Peter Dow


Not thanks to the U.S thought, Hitler gave Germans what they have today, and U.S committed the most horrible crime in history when they dropped an over kill bomb on civilians, and 2 of them!! just to test it out.

Cmon dude, this post is terrible, your basically saying the same thing that a "terror" group is probably saying about American, you are not different then they are. And if a man joins the military to shoot people, it's not so bad he gets shot and dies, it's pretty much what they are signing up for, shoot or be shot.

This whole WAR is for profits and that's it, so they invented some Terrorists to make an excuse to exploit someone else s land and freedom just they can make some Imaginary money.

Honestly stop man, you sound like a murderer.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
This BBC infographics video is also appropriate for this thread.

Might be slightly outdated, but you get the point.

It is a most useful video. Thank you very much for posting!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
US/NATOs success depends on their relations with Pakistan.

Pakistan is a mixed bag of our friends and enemies. The US & NATO's success depends on helping our friends in Pakistan and defeating our enemies in Pakistan. It's probably more important to us to defeat our enemies in Pakistan than help our friends but it should be possible to do both.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Drone bombing all those civilians

What "civilians"? My plan does not include deliberately bombing civilians!
We should take all reasonable steps to avoid civilian casualties.

For example, when bombing the University of Jihad, and other terrorist indoctrination camps, we could give a warning, long enough to evacuate the camp so we end up just bombing empty buildings, which sends a strong message that the Father of the Taliban and other Talban leaders are indeed all military targets and even if we can't get him from the air, our friends in Pakistan can get him from the ground with our encouragement.

If we have to bomb the Pakistani military intelligence ISI HQ, which runs the Taliban as a state proxy terrorist group, then that's a military target, not a civilian target.

Plus anyway, drones don't usually carry big enough bombs to level large building complexes. That will take heavy bombing, like that MOAB video I posted or many smaller bombs.

So I am talking about bigger bombs than drones can carry, but avoiding targeting civilians

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
and having them shut supply routes isn't exactly a bright plan.

Well they don't have to shut supply lines. No-one's forcing them to do so but actually we don't really need the Pakistani supply route if we keep other options open, such as

the Northern Distribution network -



and increasing air lift capacity.

In terms of supplying by air, that's a bit easier than evacuating by air because you can use parachute air drops for some cargoes, if you have enough all-terrain moving vehicles to pick up cargo loads from the dropping ground which could be a suitable flat area near the base needing the supplies.

Originally posted by ken10
Why are we in Afghanistan again

To get those terrorists who did 9/11 and committed other terrorist attacks in our homelands, killing many of our people.

According to the Bush Doctrine we treat regimes like the Taliban who host enemy terrorists as hostile regimes (meaning we may wage war on those hostile regimes, invade the country, regime-change the country and help rebuild a friendly regime which doesn't host enemy terrorists.)

Originally posted by poet1b

There is only one way to win such a war.

Actually I have just stated a plan to win such a war. There may be other ways but then there is more than one way, not only one way.

Originally posted by poet1b
Kill all the men who show any sign of aggression,

Well that sounds like the most aggressive policy imaginable. You are a very aggressive man!
What was it you suggest we should do to men as aggressive as you again?

Originally posted by poet1b
impregnate the women, and raise a new generation.

Make love not war, huh? Well while the conquerers are raising a new generation the women are poisoning them or stabbing them while they sleep.

Originally posted by poet1b
That's the way they did it way back then.

"Yes we Ghengis Khan?" I don't think so.

We are not lions, nor wolves nor savages nor Nazis!

We are civilised people and should behave like such.

Originally posted by luciddream
Wow i mean no offense to you warfare strategist mind, but sadly u have no idea of having a war on your home front and the casualties that come along with it. Untill you experience that, all you do is being ignorant about others lives.

That's like saying

• you can't be a fireman unless your house has burned down? (Em, no)
  
• you can't be an obstetrician unless you've had a baby? (Em, no)
  
• you can't be a judge unless you've been a victim of crime (Em, no)

Actually the people most involved in long wars have proven experience of not winning the war quickly. That's when you need to bring in someone with new ideas (or classical good ideas such as defending supply lines which have strangely been neglected) and a fresh perspective, out of the box thinking.

Originally posted by luciddream
Do you know the difference between a Pakistani and a Taliban? what about different between a Afghani and a Pakistani?

Yes.

Originally posted by luciddream
All i see is a recipe to get more oil

We are not in Afghanistan to get oil, because there is none there.

Actually if we had invaded Saudi Arabia and grabbed their oil for compensation for all the expense they have put us to in fighting the war on terror, that would have been a lot more successful in removing funding for terrorism, a lot of which comes out of Saudi Arabia.

Originally posted by luciddream
price of some people you don't care about.

The price is the terrorists and their masters and they need to pay the price for killing our people which we do care about.

reply to post by Mr Peter Dow


Why would any Western decision bring peace to Syria? It was the West who decimated what was a peaceful secular country in the first place..

How to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan / Pakistan:

Remove any and all foreign soldiers, dismantle any all military infrastructure including any and all alien corporate/industrial ventures operating in said region. Publicly admonish the way ward imperialistic expansions perused by previous regimes and begin immediately to construct hospitals, schools, public works and infrastructure that have been subsequently destroyed over a decade of criminal occupation. Hand over each and every single politician/CEO and businessman/arms dealers who have profiteered even a cent from the horrors America have wrought on these nations to the Taliban/Pakistan governments to do with as they please then write them a check for a trillion dollars and deliver another trillion in gold bullion.

And just hope that this might come close to alleviate the pain, torture and suffering western coalition forces have done these nations. It probably wont be enough though. Wouldnt be enough for me, so good luck with that.

reply to post by Mr Peter Dow


There is nothing civilized about war. War is hell. If you want to win a war, you have to kill a lot of people.

That is the way it is. If you want to defeat people who believe in an eye for an eye, you need to take both eyes.

Yeah, they would kill all who see the way to victory if they could.

reply to post by poet1b

That is the way it is. If you want to defeat people who believe in an eye for an eye, you need to take both eyes.

Well, that's pretty much what they have been doing so far. Not just with the resistance fighters, but with non-combatants, women, children etc.

And here you are calling for genocide and rape... because you believe it worked in the old days.