Originally posted by magestica I could not wait until the election came around to see Bush get voted out.

I prefer if this thread stayed focused on U.S. citizens who voted for Bush. Thanks.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by magestica
I could not wait until the election came around to see Bush get voted out.

I prefer if this thread stayed focused on U.S. citizens who voted for Bush.

Thanks.

Hey that was totally uncalled for. I am and will always remain an American citizen. American people can and do reside outside of the United States without giving up their American citizenship.

I wholeheartedly agree with this and many other statements. I don't think a lot of people voted FOR Bush as much as they voted AGAINST Kerry.

I also think that the election was more about conservatives vs. liberals, instead of repubs vs. dems - and he is right when he says that many liberals ridicule those who believe contrary to them.

Case in point - on another thread, a person (don't remember who) was asking who others would vote for. One person replied "Bush", gave a few reasons, and was immediately asked what kind of drugs they were taking, when they lost their mind, etc...

Well, I guess there were many of us losing our minds on drugs - a MAJORITY this time...

We MUST work together people - find a common ground to work from and build from there. Let's stop attacking each other and start trying to understand more. Great thread - allows for great discussion without all of the raving maniacal posts...

[edit on 3-11-2004 by natas]

Originally posted by natas Let's stop attacking each other and start trying to understand more.

Excellent sentiment amongst us poor confused huddle masses here... but we are more divided than ever before because of the divisive RNC strategy to win this election. While I can certainly understand the personal decision to consider Bush may be the better person for the job of president, I continue to have difficulty understanding the fervent support Bush-the-man enjoys. He was the person responsible for campaign tactics that were designed to divide and spread hate and fear. I can't understand how people feel such an immoral act can be support as morality. I'm understanding more... but then, the deeper we dig here, the more other strange issues surface.

I voted for Bush for a variety of reasons, some economical. For example, allowing the young people to invest some of their Social Security dollars in their own way. Kerry was dead set against this.

The economy is on the rebound from 9/11 and the internet bubble bursting. The tax cuts are a good idea.

Abortion, well, the problem I had with Kerry was his stance against parental notification.

Kerry has no respect for you or me. A favorite dig against him here in the northeast is "Do you know who I am?", a line lots of New Englanders have heard from him as he ushers himself to the front of the line at the theater, valet parking, Toppers, whatever. And his infamous "That's not your business, that's my business" line is a hint of what he'd be telling you as president.

Finally, he tried to use his Viet Nam record as a political lever. Then his famous "doubly advantageous" quote to David Broder showed his true colors. That and his refusal to release his SF-180 records.

Terrorism was not a factor. No president can guarantee your safety 100% of the time. But what happens to the terrorists afterward can be considered. Bush wins on that issue.

The media totally disgusted me. From CBS and Dan Rather's attempt to smear, to Mark Halperin's attitude, to Katy Couric, to the NY Times. I tried to look for the truth in what they said, but it wasn't hard to see their motives.

The Democratic party tried to wage a campaign of hate and division. From Ben Veniste, to Rangel, Hollings, Gore, Kennedy, Biden and many more. And McAuliffe. And the Kerry/Edwards tag team's tasteless gay bashing of Mary Cheney. All of this turned me off to the Democrats.

And finally. the many members of this community that spewed forth such hatred for Bush. Once again, I tried to look for truth, but rarely found it. But the vitriol had a definite negative effect on my perception of this election. It seems that Bush is to be responsible for every facet of their lives, according to them. Well, I disagree. We need to take care of ourselves first. This is not meant to be confrontational, so please, no flames. I won't respond to flames.

Just my .02

Why did I vote for Bush, you ask? Fair question, SO, as you know that I have not been his biggest supporter, and only found myself defending him at this board because of the lame, hypocritical and erroneous attacks that was made on him. So, let me try and answer this, now that the BS and the election is over.

First, I saw ample proof to realize Kerry is a self-gratifying, power-seeking, ultra-elite liberal politician, and I have no desire for such a politician in the Office.

Kerry bailed on the troops after 3 boo-boo's that barely allowed three drops of blood escape. That gives me an indication of his loyalty.

Kerry stands straight-ways against everything I stand for, morally, and was all for the social reengineering that he has been a part of since he has taken office in the Senate.

Unlike Kerry, Bush understands you cannot tax your way to prosperity, and that fair and across the board tax cuts were the only way to get us out of the economic mess that he found himself with when entering office. I am hoping he'll cut them even deeper now, so that our business will have the chance to grow even more, creating even more jobs, even though our unemployment rate nationally is great.

Bush did not roll over and wet on himself three years ago when this nation was again attacked by our enemies. He responded. Afghanistan is now under the leadership of an ELECTED president, and the enemy is hiding in caves. bin Laden shows up once to try and scare us away from Bush and goes back to hiding. Hussein is gone, never to have the chance to pawn off special weapons to kill our countrymen with, and soon, Iraq will vote for their very own ELECTED leader. On top of that, Bush isn't through killing the enemy. His success has caused Libya to wet on themselves, and Syria is looking like it is about ready to start releasing urine as well. We no longer have a leader that shows weakness but strength, and I like that.

Lastly, Bush does not look to see if what he is doing is loved by the rest of the world; a world that is not worried about my best interest but is only concerned about getting whatever it can from my nation. Bush understands that he is MY president, and not the world's. He is not going to put our security or prosperity up to a "Global test", that his opponent was.

Bush is not a trial lawyer, as his opponent's running mate was. Neitehr is Cheney.

Laura is a true lady, graceful and dignified. I had no desire to see that changed for the much worse.

Last but certainly not least...........
Hollywood was dead-set against Bush, pushing us dopey peasants to vote for Kerry. That was a very good indicator, even if I didn't have all the facts. As a matter of fact, I thionk that is how I'll vote for now on. Rather than clouding up my mind with current events and politics, I'll just see who the Hollywood left is for and vote against them!

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

You don't know my core values. Most christians have been taught to assume atheists have no morality. Why must everyone have things your way (as the Bush-voting extreme theists want)?

Skepticoverlord, I think this may be considered a political snipe. I don't think calling all Bush supporters "Bush-voting extreme theists" is very considerate.

I don't force my values or beliefs on you or anyone else. I'm belong to an evangelical Luthern church, a very casual church. Religion wasn't the only reason I voted for Bush.

To those who say we have many different religions in this country. Yes, we do, and they are free to believe whatever they want to believe. But, the majority is christian, and in a democracy the majority rules.

I don't think badly of anyone for their beliefs, or if your athiests, or if you believe in the sun!

It is obvious to me that the people that can't see why I voted for Bush probably never will. I've explained why I'm voting for Bush numerous times in countless threads and have been ripped on by someone everytime. I've been asked what kind of drugs I'm on, been told im closed minded, I've been called ignorant, and countless other things.

The bottom line for me voting for Bush was that he was the better man for the job.
I only hope he proves my point, and maybe if you can look past his poor speaking ability and the cracks he recieves from Hollywood you might see why Bush won the popular vote in the US.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Excellent sentiment amongst us poor confused huddle masses here... but we are more divided than ever before because of the divisive RNC strategy to win this election.

This may be off-topic, or it may explain my choice, I'm not sure, but your comment about the "divisive RNC strategy" seems rather ironic to me.

Having observed the tactics used by Senator Kerry and the Democratic party over the course of the campaign, and as a recipient of stacks of junk mail and computerized solicitation calls by both parties, and informed by volumes of commentary enshrined in these forums and others, my opinion is that the Democrats chose a more divisive strategy than the Republicans.

In the case of Kerry, I found virtually nothing of substance remaining once I filtered out his criticism of Bush. His failure was his inability to establish himself as something other than the "anti-Bush", a fatal dependency, in my opinion.

I still do not, and thus will never know, what John Kerry really stood for. A vote for him would have been nothing more than an act of faith -- but an act of faith for something in which I had no faith. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is not an attractive proposition for me.

Of course, opinions vary, but if we accept the evidence of the popular vote, at the very least the Republicans were less divisive than the Democrats, simply because they managed to unite more voters.

The fact that the Republicans also have control of both houses of Congress also testifies to their ability to unify voters better than the Democrats. So I'm not able to understand the idea that the Republicans are the ones who are "divisive".

Political parties distinguish themselves from one other, and the people unite with or divide from them as we see fit.

That's how it works.

I voted for Bush.

I think he makes mistakes but kept the country together well after 9/11. And will continue to fight the war on terrorism.
I may not like everything his administration does, but I like it more than what the last two democrats have done in the Oval Office.

Although I am not much for organzied religion, I admire his faith. He strikes me as a sincere man.

It had nothing to do with the gay marriage thing. I think the government should get out of the marriage business totally. It is NOT their business who I live with or why. I think there should be civil unions. Anything else, like marriages, should be private or religious affairs.

I felt Kerry was hiding something from his military past. He would not release his records. Why?
He was too much an automaton. Too much the result of his handlers.
He made me very uncomfortable. He scared me, esp. with all the programs I can't afford. Programs that would not benefit me. And which I feel is not the job of the government.
(he-he, the Libertarian in me is creeping out.)

And, this: I could not have said it better myself

Originally posted by Majic
In the case of Kerry, I found virtually nothing of substance remaining once I filtered out his criticism of Bush. His failure was his inability to establish himself as something other than the "anti-Bush", a fatal dependency, in my opinion.

I still do not, and thus will never know, what John Kerry really stood for. A vote for him would have been nothing more than an act of faith -- but an act of faith for something in which I had no faith. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is not an attractive proposition for me.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by LostSailor I don't think calling all Bush supporters "Bush-voting extreme theists" is very considerate.

The categorization was for "Bush-voting extreme theists", not "Bush voters are extreme theists". I know there are many Bush supporters that are not such, but the fervent extremist is a phenomenon this president enjoys. As such, these extreme-theist Bush backers feel the need to dictate and legislate what is morality for all of us. These groups use the absurd analogy that if we allow gay marriages, we'll soon be considering legalizing pedophilic activity. An absurd stretch to the extreme. However... an stretch to the opposite extreme is not absurd to these people, such as banning certain classic books and preventing pregnant single-women from teaching in public schools. The divide is terrifying.

Originally posted by Majic This may be off-topic,

It is. Sorry. Let's try to remain focused on what causes the support of Mr. Bush, and his specific traits that inspires this. Not the issues of the alternative choices (though I have often expressed that the lack of Dem leadership and poor strategy is also contributing factor to the divide).

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
As such, these extreme-theist Bush backers feel the need to dictate and legislate what is morality for all of us. These groups use the absurd analogy that if we allow gay marriages, we'll soon be considering legalizing pedophilic activity. An absurd stretch to the extreme. However... an stretch to the opposite extreme is not absurd to these people, such as banning certain classic books and preventing pregnant single-women from teaching in public schools.

But isn't that exactly what we have to work with right now?

You and I are social liberals - there is no changing that. But the majority in this country right now is not. If issues that are important to us are put to a straight up vote in this country - we are going to lose everytime. That is the reality we exist in right now.

The only choices we have are to educate and try to find common ground. Civil unions instead of marriage - support a partial birth abortion ban with the caveat on the mother's life - promote moderate SCOTUS appointees over the next few years (we can forget liberal).

Little victories are the key - not a line in the sand. Forget blaming and seek solutions.


B.

I voted for Bush both times because of his core moral values.

All you need to do is say the word "values" and the hamsters will step on the paddle.

Jesus Christ


And this post does describe in detail why people support bush.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by aukaiman55]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Wonderful. What about that first question... which of "God's laws" do you believe were broken that inspired your support for Bush?

I said that too abortion, radical stem cell research, gay and lesbian marriage. Also sexual immorality, but this is something that is rampant in this country that goes on and shows how far we have fallen. The same with what is on TV and in movies that have developed a culture that says anything goes. Neither candidate addresses the last two but it's a moral decay thing that God also sees.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well after reading all these post I am coming to the conclusion that most of you voted for God and jesus and fetuses,

I'm not following you?

I mean your whole post.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by aukaiman55
And this post does describe in detail why people support bush.
[edit on 3-11-2004 by aukaiman55]

And I read your post several times and still cannot find your contribution to this thread. Just a personal insult at an entire group of people.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The divide is terrifying.

And purely psychological. There is division amongst Americans and the people of the world because a person chooses to divide theirself from others in their own mind or in their head. That is what is terrifying.

I personally don't think you are really sincere in your effort to discover why people supported Bush this time around at all. It's very clear if you read these posts in this thread fully, instead of pulling out small comments that allow you to remark in an opposing* way.

Anyone can do that, heck, I just did



[edit on 11/3/04 by magestica]

SkepticOverlord
You don't know my core values. Most christians have been taught to assume atheists have no morality. Why must everyone have things your way (as the Bush-voting extreme theists want)?

If you’re an Atheist I know enough about your core values not to value them. This is not to say that you don’t have a personal moral code, I’m sure you do. But as a Christian my moral code is going to be entirely different from your own. We may have some overlap in our moral philosophies where we can see eye to eye but on the big decisions we will not agree. It’s a simple matter of worldviews. You have yours and I have mine.

Each one of us does what we can to create a government that upholds the values we believe in. Why is it so hard for you to understand that the government I will want will be different from the government you will want?

SkepticOverlord
How will living my life my way in private effect your moral code?

That would depend on what it is you want to do in private. There are things you could do in private that would be fine with me. There are also things you could do in private that I would not want you to do.

SkepticOverlord
Why is forcing your view of morality on me, moral?

Government is force. As long as we have governments we will always have a moral code that is enforced upon each of us. This cannot be changed. One of the primary responsibilities of government is to enforce our moral laws whatever they may be. If you want to live without government you’re going to have to find a deserted island somewhere and call it home.

SkepticOverlord
As such, these extreme-theist Bush backers feel the need to dictate and legislate what is morality for all of us.

If secular humanist were in power they would enforce their moral code on us as well. Stop trying to argue against legislating morality, every government does it and has always done it. You just don’t like the form of morality that you perceive our American government is enforcing.

SkepticOverlord
These groups use the absurd analogy that if we allow gay marriages, we'll soon be considering legalizing pedophilic activity.

No we don’t. We don’t want gays getting married because we believe that it would destroy the concept of marriage. My vote against gay marriage has nothing to do with pedophilia, funny you would think such a thing.

Originally posted by magestica I personally don't think you are really sincere in your effort to discover why people supported Bush this time around at all

Actually I am... and I've got a handle on something that seems to be developing nicely. But I need a large sample before conclusions are clear. History is our guide I think.... smells like 1940's all over again to me.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Let's try to remain focused on what causes the support of Mr. Bush, and his specific traits that inspires this.

And therein lies the art of moderation.

On-topic, then, here are some of the traits that convinced me Bush was the better choice. It's hard not to use some sort of comparison when assessing his traits, but I'll try to minimize it.

You may, of course, not agree with these observations, but that's why they are my opinions.

Positive Traits of Dubya

- He makes decisions and sticks with them. While I don't always agree with the decisions, a leader who cannot follow through with his decisions is a poor leader. This was my main criticism of Bill Clinton.

- He makes decisions based on clearly-defined principles. You may not agree with him, but at least you know where he stands.

- What you see is what you get. Despite all sorts of wild accusations to the contrary, Bush comes across as sincere and genuine. He is not a focus-group cowboy.

- He places America first. I don't want to become a subject of the U.N. or any other one-world government. When I vote for a president, I want one who represents America. Period.

- He has a strong foreign policy. A strong foreign policy does not mean making everyone else happy. The most common criticism of "selfish" American foreign policies are their interference with the selfish foreign policies of others.

- He is willing to go to war. I don't like war, and none of my ancestors did either. But America was born in war, and came to world prominence through war. A nation in the position America occupies that is unwilling to fight is in a state of collapse. I would rather we did not have this tiger by the tail, but we may as well try to enjoy the ride.

- He is resistant to Socialism. My main problem is that he isn't resistant enough to it, and is as spendy as the Democrats, just on different extravagances. While choosing Bush does not mean choosing smaller government, his opponent's offer was worse in my view.

- He supports separation of powers. I would prefer that he support state government more than he does, but the opposition seems oblivous to the idea of a republic by comparison. Thus it's a "plus" for Bush.

- He has a known track record as an executive. Both as a governor and as a first-term president, he has shown that he can do the job.

- He offers a positive message for America. It's not all about "evil doers" with Bush. Where others might focus on the negative, Bush accentuates the positive. He seemed to have to force himself to sling mud with Kerry, and I hope that's the last time I have to witness something like that.

- He has presidential bearing. It is undignified for a president to go around complaining about things and bagging on people. When Bush chooses to complain, he chooses his words carefully and offers constructive alternatives.

I suppose that sums it up.

This is the first time I've posted anything like this on ATS, and probably the last, because expressing a non-leftist opinion on this board tends to lead to labeling, namecalling and general abuse.

I made this exception because you asked, and I respect you tremendously, and am therefore willing to risk reprisal if it may help you to understand what motivated one Bush voter.






[edit on 11/3/2004 by Majic]