OP/ED: One Hot Democratic Minute - A Rebuttal; A Promise

cough *terrorism* cough (that may have been the deciding factor IMHO

Nice intial post by the way Rant,

I have as of yet time to put forth a coherent statement on it, but I will try tonight.

But, in wathcing the commentary on the election, one thing is pretty obvious by all of it. Htere has been a fundamental shift in America. Lable it as we may, the nation has grown more conservative by and large.

Now we can go on as to why, but a simple look to the states won is indicative by that. We are in a war and a time of crisis (please, no posts about Bush knew, MM is right with F/911 we have gone on and on about it, im speaking to peoples perception, not how they got them) and in those times, people tend to be more conservative in both finance, and even political leanings.

Originally posted by FredT
cough *terrorism* cough (that may have been the deciding factor IMHO

Htere has been a fundamental shift in America. Lable it as we may, the nation has grown more conservative by and large.

I don't know that the nation has become more conservative - but I do see that the conservatives have become more violent, and more inclined to bully the opposition and try to shout them down. Tends to obscure the softer voices.

Even if the vote counts are right - and it looks like they're not, again - we're still talking only 50% Republican, many of whom want to return to individualistic republican party roots. ...so all this hoorah about the majority speaks just looks like more spin to me.





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Originally posted by marg6043
The sad thing is Rant that they can ban gay marriage but they will never make the gay comunity dispear, they will always be here and they will move next door to you americans and they are everywhere they are humans, citizens, firends, brothers, sisters and even parents.

So better get used to them because they are going to live together wanted constitutional ban or not.

I don't think that the majority of the people who oppose gay marriage as being legal want to make the gay community dissapear. The problem is that the majority of people do not want to accept as "normal" or to even have imposed on them the idea that gay marriage is ok, that is the issue.

Wether or not people want to accept it, most people in the US were brought up with the idea that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman.

I don't know that the nation has become more conservative - but I do see that the conservatives have become more violent, and more inclined to bully the opposition and try to shout them down. Tends to obscure the softer voices.

Even if the vote counts are right - and it looks like they're not, again - we're still talking only 50% Republican, many of whom want to return to individualistic republican party roots. ...so all this hoorah about the majority speaks just looks like more spin to me.

It only looks that way to you, because it opposes your personal views. Almost everyone that I know personally is a conservative. Most of my friends claimed that they voted Liberatarian, but I'm starting to doubt that. Just because most of what you see on the TV is liberal, doesn't mean that most of the country is liberal as well. There is a growing number of non-republican conservatives in this country that may have voted for Bush only because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Kerry, who is basically a socialist. I don't mean to make "socialist" sound like a dirty word, but many (appearently most) Americans do not want our country to take that road.

As for using violence to "bully" the opposition... I seem to remember most of the more violent protestors and activists being liberal. That's not to say that conservatives haven't done the same. Extremists are extremists, so I'd just like to know if you can provide any links suggesting an unbalanced use of violence and bullying tactics used by conservatives. I can see it now... you'll say abortion clinic bombers and I'll say eco-terrorists. That could go on forever. I just don't see the liberals being a "softer voice". I think that you and many others have bought into the "spin" to which you all keep referring.

[edit on 4-11-2004 by veritas93]

Originally posted by RANT

Of...? What the exit polls said? I posted some of the raw unweighted data from 2pm on ATS Tuesday. I said then take it with a grain of salt, because it showed Kerry winning at least one swing state (MN I think) by 60%. We knew it wouldn't hold, but that's the same data everyone saw in both the RNC and DNC.
..........

let me get this straight.

Voting is supposed to be secret, and that I am aware of, there is no way they know how many men or how many women voted for a candidate, or what are the reasons for people to have voted for one candidate and not the other, unless all voters were asked directly....and that's not allowed....

For my part I was never asked by anyone who I voted for or why, except here, and I didn't see anyone else at the voting poll being asked any questions....

What is this, another poll where they ask 1,000-2,000 people and decide that the whole population must think the same way?....

---edited to correct errors---

[edit on 4-11-2004 by Muaddib]

Most of the bullying, and name calling that I have seen, come from quite a few democrats/liberals in these boards, who seem hell bent on venting "their anger" and bashing and blaming Bush and all those Americans who voted for him.... Republicans, me included, have just responded to those attacks, but I haven't seen any Republican in here starting the name calling, or bullying.

Hey, Muaddib.....didja miss this one?? ( mine is the one without all the upper case screaming)

Originally posted by Zipdot

Originally posted by frayed1
And when Christ comes again, I have a feeling he will not be too pleased that we re-elected a guy that lied so he could invade a third world country, killing and maiming way more than the guilty.

He no longer needs to hide his agenda from anyone, George can do what ever he wants, without worrying about those pesky voters liking it or not. He sure won't need to worry about doing any healing with a bunch of folks he'll never need. I wonder if there will even be another election.

Oh God, spare me the drama! Geeeeeze. Bush is just a president! GRASP THE CONCEPT.

About your remarks on the war -- these remarks sound hauntingly familiar -- where have I heard them before? OH, RIGHT. I hear this CRAP every DAMN DAY especially here on ATS where people can't just accept that America entered a WAR, and in WARS, people get MAIMED and OBLITERATED and SPLATTERED. KILLED. DISABLED. INCINERATED. MELTED. PERFORATED. GET OVER IT, PLEASE.

From www.m-w.com
Main Entry: third world
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized T&W
Etymology: translation of French tiers monde
1 : a group of nations especially in Africa and Asia not aligned with either the Communist or the non-Communist blocs
2 : an aggregate of minority groups within a larger predominant culture
3 : the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world

Iraq is not underdeveloped. Just because it's not America doesn't make it third world.

Zip



[edit on 4-11-2004 by Zipdot]

No, Zip I won't get over it.....that's why war is the last resort!! That is why civilized people use war as the last resort. I will never be OK with killing and maiming children "because he (Sadam) tried to kill my daddy". Afganistan was one thing....Iraq is something else. ( we started, not entered BTW)

And yes, much of this election was about gay marriage. I live in GA and I talked to some of those anti-gay marriage voters....they did not make the marriage/civil union distinction....and the amendment to the GA constitution seemed to read like the civil union will not be legal either. (the second part of the amendment was not shown on the ballot, and I've only seen it elsewhere briefly)

If so many of those church goers hold marriage so sacred, why do they allow their members to divorce?? (I did not get married in a church....couldn't afford it....mine is a civil union, performed by a judge, do these Christians consider me to be living in sin, and my children illegitimate?)

Many Christians used similar arguments in favor of segregation that they now use on the issue of gay marriage (intergration was immoral, not intended by God). And sadly, many leave their good behavior on the church steps and cheerfully do 'the devil's work' the rest of the week, they rarely 'live' their religion. (I was raised Baptist, I know from years of close and personal observance - as well as being at the recieving end of some less that Christ-like behaviors).

BTW -- I am a Christian, born again,even. I believe in God, but not in a person just because he tells me he is a Christian.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by frayed1]

Frayed, Clinton had no remorse sending our troops to Bosnia, and going against the UN and Russia's decision, or bombing milk factories and mosques in Iraq and leaving the UN sanctions in Iraq which killed 500,000-560,000 children and all together 1,000,000 Iraqis from malnutrition and hunger.

BTW, you don't have to accept Bush as a Christian, noone is puting a gun to your head and make you say he is.

Originally posted by Muaddib
What is this, another poll where they ask 1,000-2,000 people and decide that the whole population must think the same way?....

I want you to do me a favor. The next time you go to a doctor for a rountine blood test, and he tells you that you're sick tell him he's wrong. Demand he take all your blood because the sample wasn't scientific enough.

America is sick. And I don't have to talk to everyone to see that.

Originally posted by RANT
America is sick. And I don't have to talk to everyone to see that.

LOL Good old RANT logic. It's hard to dislike you, because you have a sense of humor and often make me laugh. Otherwise, I'm seeing a serious lack of objectivity in your statements, yet you act as if whatever you write is the unquestioned "truth". Most of the population would agree that this country is "sick", but about half would consider people like you to be part of the illness lol. Oh well, this is the best part about living in a nation that embraces free speech... diversity of perspectives. At very least, it's amusing to sit back and watch the two sides bicker. There's going to be no civil war, as all of these issues are old ones that the American people have been wrestling over for a very long time. One thing is for sure though... we love drama

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by Muaddib
What is this, another poll where they ask 1,000-2,000 people and decide that the whole population must think the same way?....

I want you to do me a favor. The next time you go to a doctor for a rountine blood test, and he tells you that you're sick tell him he's wrong. Demand he take all your blood because the sample wasn't scientific enough.

America is sick. And I don't have to talk to everyone to see that.

Just like saying if you get a blood sample and it comes says your are healthy, let him know he needs to remove all of your blood to let you know you for sure.

While you are at it, next time you get a physical make sure you get a second opinion because the sample wasn't scientific!

Next time you go to

Originally posted by RANT
I want you to do me a favor. The next time you go to a doctor for a rountine blood test, and he tells you that you're sick tell him he's wrong. Demand he take all your blood because the sample wasn't scientific enough.

Classic RANT, delightful as always!

While I can only marvel at the fine style, I do think it is worth pointing out that there indeed seem to be some statistical discrepancies between a sample size of 1-2000 and a sample size of 115 million.

I am satisfied with the accuracy of the official poll. The rest are interesting in their own way -- and largely for their perennial inaccuracy -- but don't count, so they don't matter.