There is not enough honest language on ATS

reply to post by GrandStrategy


i think your reply supports the point re lack of foul language, your retort was all the more effective and poetic imo for lacking the f's and b's etc

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

i think your reply supports the point re lack of foul language, your retort was all the more effective and poetic imo for lacking the f's and b's etc

I don't know, I reckon I sound like a real uppity jackass when I don't swear. Effing and jeffing gives me a human touch

YOu don't need vulgarity or profanity to get your point across.

Also it just makes you sound trashy and uneducated when you need to use curse words to get your point across. I like that ATS doesn't allow curse words. If they did ATS would look like every other site on the internet, filled with nothing but trashy vulgar comments.

"Swearing. Not coming soon to an ATS forum near you." So discussing it is pretty much moot. That's the policy and it isn't going to change. Gaz explained it on the first page. Corrections is about the most vulgar atmosphere I've worked in and yes I'm up there with the vulgarity. Just not here. No biggie.

perhaps i can provide a humourous solution?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by LastStarfighter


It's my personal opinion that vulgarity has only two purposes; one for when we're really angry and need words to carry that anger in our communication and two, when our lexicon is fundamentally lacking the ability to express normal thoughts.

One of my favorite terms is 'I don't give a flying rat's ass' to express an extreme uncaring. But with a little work, it becomes 'I don't give a flying rat's exhaust pipe' or similar, and the meaning still gets across with a sample of unintended humor to prevent that poor rat's patootie from becoming something so negative.

I love the English language because it is so dynamic and malleable that it's almost an art form. Of course, Her Majesty probably wouldn't appreciate this approach... thank gawd for the Atlantic Ocean!

Originally posted by redoubt
I love the English language because it is so dynamic and malleable that it's almost an art form. Of course, Her Majesty probably wouldn't appreciate this approach... thank gawd for the Atlantic Ocean!

Really? We have the same language right on your border.

reply to post by intrepid

Really? We have the same language right on your border.

My step daughter lives in Bowling Green, Ohio. She sometimes crosses over into Canada to pull a few slots... think it may be an Indian casino... not sure.

Anyway, living in the south my entire life, I often find her north/midwestern accent very enjoyable, lol. I mean, there's like 1300 miles between us and that distance can easily be dialect-mapped on a trip up to her area. But on return from one of those excursions, she called her mother to say that the people in Canada talk so funny!

I about rolled onto the floor... there's only an hour's drive between her and that funny dialect.

Gotta love it all!

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
YOu don't need vulgarity or profanity to get your point across.

Also it just makes you sound trashy and uneducated when you need to use curse words to get your point across. I like that ATS doesn't allow curse words. If they did ATS would look like every other site on the internet, filled with nothing but trashy vulgar comments.

But you're assigning subjective qualities to swearing. There is nothing trashy or uneducated or vulgar in swearing. What's vulgar is saying that swearing is vulgar, because you're dismissing out of hand the intelligence and character of billions of people.

Notice that were I to ask you to explain why swearing is vulgar, you would have to resort to circular reasoning. Go on, try. Tell me why swearing is vulgar. Let's see how long it takes me to run you full circle.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
Notice that were I to ask you to explain why swearing is vulgar, you would have to resort to circular reasoning. Go on, try. Tell me why swearing is vulgar. Let's see how long it takes me to run you full circle.

I'll take a shot at that one. First one has to define a word. Vulgar:

Adjective

Lacking sophistication or good taste; unrefined: "the vulgar trappings of wealth".
Making explicit and offensive reference to sex or bodily functions; coarse and rude: "a vulgar joke".

Synonyms
common - coarse - rude - gross - low - rough - plebeian

Google search.

I think it pretty much defined itself. Being a Carlin fan I could come up with more synonyms. Swearing is vulgar. Carlin said so himself. Swearing doesn't equate to IQ. George was one of the most intelligent people I've seen but it certainly is "course". Thus vulgar.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
Notice that were I to ask you to explain why swearing is vulgar, you would have to resort to circular reasoning. Go on, try. Tell me why swearing is vulgar. Let's see how long it takes me to run you full circle.

I'll take a shot at that one. First one has to define a word. Vulgar:

Adjective

Lacking sophistication or good taste; unrefined: "the vulgar trappings of wealth".
Making explicit and offensive reference to sex or bodily functions; coarse and rude: "a vulgar joke".

Synonyms
common - coarse - rude - gross - low - rough - plebeian

Google search.

I think it pretty much defined itself. Being a Carlin fan I could come up with more synonyms.

Swearing is vulgar. Carlin said so himself. Swearing doesn't equate to IQ. George was one of the most intelligent people I've seen but it certainly is "course". Thus vulgar.

edit on 19-4-2013 by intrepid because: Pared down quote.

But how is swearing lacking in sophistication or good taste. How is it unrefined? What makes these words offensive? Who decided swearing lacks sophistication, taste and refinement, and more importantly, why?

This will develop into a decent and long debate, no doubt, but if you really think about I think you'll see that swearing only has these qualities because swearing was used predominately by a section of society - the working class - that had already been assigned said qualities as a community. That's to say, swearing is not considered vulgar because it is in itself vulgar, but rather it's considered vulgar because it's historically been used by poor people that the upper class already deemed vulgar, offensive and unrefined.

Having a sun tan at one point in time was considered trashy and vulgar. Why? Because it was synonymous with the working class. Having a tattoo was considered trashy and vulgar. Why? Again, it was synonymous with the working class. Ditto for swearing.

Swearing is not vulgar. Swearing being vulgar is an opinion rooted in class bigotry.

Starred your post by the way, appreciate the response and don't want to come across as offhandish... as I so often do when I'm denied the right to swear

Which Carlin video are you referencing? I can't recall it and would enjoy seeing it

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Bottom line. Would you say, "I don't care if the #$(*^ thing isn't working you %@$!*, Grandma"? Or to your 4 year old niece.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
Which Carlin video are you referencing? I can't recall it and would enjoy seeing it

Oh, many. I've followed Carlin for almost 40 years. Can't post them here though. They're vulgar.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


i very much agree with your reasoning here with reference to attitudes to working class culture etc, but my feeling with how it relates to ATS is that if such restrictions were removed then some posters here would have real trouble coping with it in one way or another, be that as a recipient to such language (and therefor driving away some valued contributors) or for others in the overuse of their new found powers of profanity - i fear that some responses would be of an even lower quality due to this

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

Bottom line. Would you say, "I don't care if the #$(*^ thing isn't working you %@$!*, Grandma"? Or to your 4 year old niece.

One of the reasons I'm so passionate about the subject is that I was raised in a community, and a family, where swearing is an everyday thing... for the most part. So when I see claims that swearing is vulgar, crass, trashy, a sign of low intelligence, naturally I'm going to take that personally. Swearing being all of those things is not just a general remark, it's a slight on the people I love and it offends me. And so I find it funny that people talk about offensive language, vulgarity and such, while making such all encompassing, well, insults.

You're on the money in that I wouldn't swear in the situations you mention. Guilty as charged, I self-censor. But the reason I do so is not because I believe it's(swearing) vulgar or offensive, but rather I censor myself out of respect for the people around me. I'm a highly conscious and, I'd like to think, respectful person - and as such I swear only when I know it's acceptable.

That says something about me as an individual, but it doesn't have much to do with the subjective vulgarity of swearing. I stand by what I said, that the supposed vulgar qualities of swearing is rooted in class bigotry, and that there's nothing objectively vulgar about swearing.

Swearing is not objectively vulgar. That you can have two words with the exact same meaning, one being offensive and vulgar and one not, should tell you in itself that what constitutes offensive, vulgar language is subjective and born of historical bigotry.

Originally posted by skalla
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

i very much agree with your reasoning here with reference to attitudes to working class culture etc, but my feeling with how it relates to ATS is that if such restrictions were removed then some posters here would have real trouble coping with it in one way or another, be that as a recipient to such language (and therefor driving away some valued contributors) or for others in the overuse of their new found powers of profanity - i fear that some responses would be of an even lower quality due to this

Hehe, I'd have to concede you're probably right. At the start of the thread I was merely playing devils advocate in regards to swearing. The first few comments annoyed me and, being human, I wanted to make similarly offensive and matter-of-fact statements in favour of swearing... but I don't think ATS would be bettered by such a move, in truth.

I agree with the ATS rules as they are now. Even if I don't agree with the view on swearing as being offensive, I know that the forum is far too big to have a no-holds barred approach to language. In fact, oddly enough, I'd love to see ATS rewind the clock and go back to being even more strict on member posts. I've been here long enough to remember when poor English and 1 sentence posts got you a slap on the wrist!

So I'm not arguing for ATS to allow swearing, I'm just trying to engage a few people in debate and hopefully change their perception of swearing and the type of people who swear. I'm probably wasting my time but I'm an argumentative bastard.

Ps. We can say bastard in that context, right? I hear it on day time TV so I'm assuming. No offence intended if not.