3 good questions for christians/creationists

reply to post by Nightaudit

Text2: How do you cope with the obviously wrong and horrible laws and statements in the bible? (How to treat your slaves and that it´s ok to beat them, women´s "right´s", that we have to stone people that wear two different fabrics and all that jazz). In other words, do you pick the nice points out of the bible and ignore the bad ones? Or do you accept everything in it?

reply to post by Nightaudit


@Nightaudit

Continued as part two –

Text2: How do you cope with the obviously wrong and horrible laws and statements in the bible? (How to treat your slaves and that it´s ok to beat them, women´s "right´s", that we have to stone people that wear two different fabrics and all that jazz). In other words, do you pick the nice points out of the bible and ignore the bad ones? Or do you accept everything in it?

reply to post by Nightaudit


@Nightaudit

Continued as part two –

Text2: How do you cope with the obviously wrong and horrible laws and statements in the bible? (How to treat your slaves and that it´s ok to beat them, women´s "right´s", that we have to stone people that wear two different fabrics and all that jazz). In other words, do you pick the nice points out of the bible and ignore the bad ones? Or do you accept everything in it?

reply to post by Nightaudit


@Nightaudit

Continued as part two –

@Nightaudit

Continued as part two –

Now as far as accepting the death penalties of the first covenant, I should never want to return to that harshness of government. The same thing applies as to enslaving people. That practice is not of God but you must remember one very important thing. When God promises, He is not as a man. His promise is for eternity. God gave men the earth and all that is on it as a house to govern but with that promise He also gave mankind the death penalty to observe. He gave mankind the deed and authority to govern all that is upon the face of this earth but also God did not give us the authority to misuse that gift and abuse that authority over others.

There are some who accept the conditions of the covenant of Jesus and there are also the majorities who do not accept this second covenant and ignore as well as ridicule the man called Jesus. Regardless of acceptance or rejection of Jesus, the awareness of decency is beginning to gain more as each culture advances. You should not combine the two covenants in your understanding the bible. The first covenant of law is no longer valid. We are now in the second covenant of grace.

Originally posted by Nightaudit
reply to post by blamethegreys

 

You´re a geologist? And as you believe in moses, am I right an assuming that you believe the flood story as well? And you´re a geologist? Maybe I assume wrong here, but could you tell me a bit more how that fits together?

Do you even believe in genesis as a literal story of creation?

With the flood story, you're treading on my crazy-talk ground here
As a scientist I have to say that no, there is no evidence of a flood. Logically, it was most likely a regional event. But since that answer is lackluster to my religious self...

Generally, I try not to express this concept to anyone, because few people can really wrap their head around what I am saying. As a disclaimer: This is my wildest speculation, I hold no stock nor faith in my hypothesis, as it is untestable. But to, me it's fun to play with concepts like this in my mind, and a much more fun "what if..." than the stock answer.
There is a key human assumption that I am guessing is not applicable to God, and for a time, Noah, his family, and the ark.

The human assumption that you have to suspend is that time is fixed and linear. God is God, so if he wants to move through time He can. Seems like a reasonable premise, right? Well if He chose, could he not pull Noah and Co. "out of time" as well?

What if the biblical record pre-flood is out-of-time? What if humans were jumped from one era to the present one? My money would be on the Cretaceous. Sea levels were at an all time high, and the final event of the era is the Chicxulub asteroid impact, a scientifically accepted event which produced the K-T Extinction. Sea levels all over the world must have risen massively, and it likely took quite a while for them to return to stability. The impact would have thrown millions of tons of debris into the sky, seeding massive storms across the globe.
Very literal, biblical-flood scale events fit that particular time quite well.

I realize that this idea opens nearly limitless cans of worms. And I have thought about some of those questions, but mostly not. If I got sucked into this it would be a rabbit hole that could consume literally years of conjecture and psuedoscience. In the end, even if I had a Grand Theory of Flood Unification tying life, the universe and everything together no one would believe me. I would be alone in my knowledge, and likely half-insane

So I gave you the most entertaining answer first. As for Noah, yes, I believe that story too. In the same vein as my out of time theory, I believe that the Universe obeys God, irregardless of time. Should God command winds to part the Red Sea (proven plausible in scale modelling), or to destroy Sodom & Gomorrah with fires from the heavens, the universe will obey. Events are set in motion however far back in time necessary, in order to comply with God's will. Not that processes are in motion prior to God's command, but that at God's command the processes are and have been in motion to obey. But that's getting into crazy-crazy multi-dimensional concepts.

Finally, Genesis as a literal story of Creation: Of course I do! (you're waiting for my twist, huh?) Which account should I believe in? Which translation of a translation of an oral history should I choose? I have learned some interesting things from occasionally cross referencing Hebrew translations of the Old Testament. This link is to a literal word for word (mechanical) Hebrew-English Translation. I read this, and see the mainstream geologic concept of Earth origin: Void, big bang, unorganized matter, accretion of matter, stability of matter, Fusion of Sun, Development of Earth (seas through H2O released in geologic processes, tectonics producing continental landmass, plant life, sea life, land life, diversity...)

It really isn't a stretch in my mind, and I respect a God that is a Scientist and Architect much more so than a God who some choose to see as a magician, pulling a universe out of his hat.

Originally posted by Nightaudit
Hi guys,


I just wanted to get your take on a few points that always made me kind of doubt in the bible and it´s validity as THE holy book.

My intention here is not to step on anyone´s toes, but to try to understand how believers view certain things. Maybe I can learn something from you or at the very least I can understand your position better.

I would like to focus this thread on the following three points that kinda sum my doubts up.

1: If you were born in a non christian country with a different main religion, would you still somehow end up a christian?

2: How do you cope with the obviously wrong and horrible laws and statements in the bible? (How to treat your slaves and that it´s ok to beat them, women´s "right´s", that we have to stone people that wear two different fabrics and all that jazz). In other words, do you pick the nice points out of the bible and ignore the bad ones? Or do you accept everything in it?

3: I personally would detest the god who pulled that stunt with Abraham and Isaac. Or the god who completely wipes out whole ecosystems including innocent animals, just because he doesn´t like the ways of men. I wouldn´t WANT that to be true.


Those are the three big ones that made me leave church. I know that the religion you choose is mainly dependent on what country you grow up in and what your parents believe in. And as not believing in another god is one of the 10 commandments, that means that the majority of the worlds population will go to hell without even a chance.

The second one is obvious. Most christians cherry pick, and the ones that don´t are in the westboro baptist church. What I would like to know is how you justify the selection for yourself.

And lastly, I regard the christian god as a pretty selfish and ego driven deity. I am sorry to be so harsh, but who in his right mind would want to follow a god who does atrocious things like that?


That´s it I guess. I just wanted to get that out there and see what you guys think about it. Again, no disrespect to anyone, but things are there to be discussed.

Oh, and if you have any questions for me (I believe in god and know science to be correct as well) feel free to ask anything you want. That road has to go both ways of course.

These are good questions. I think that there are pretty solid answers for most of them out there (for instance, there is a fairly well-established Christian tradition founded in numerous New Testament passages that the "Old Law" has been superseded by the "New Law." That's why Christians "cherry-pick," because the Bible instructs them to.) However, if you don't mind me asking, I'm really curious as to where you get some of your basic assumptions.

For instance, you refer to slavery as "obviously wrong." Yet a majority of people throughout history viewed slavery as completely acceptable, and it has only been recently that it has been viewed in an ill light. So what makes you so sure slavery is wrong? Before you condemn the Bible, remember that it has not been until the notions of "equality" and "democracy" took root that slavery began to be unacceptable. I believe Nietzsche, for one, traced these notions back to Christianity and its notions of equality ("In Christ there is no slave or free," etc.) which would imply that it is because of Christianity that slavery is no longer considered normal. So perhaps the Bible actually set about sowing the seeds for the abolition of slavery? Just food for thought.

Or, to take another point, you are upset about God destroying ecosystems. But if He made the ecosystem, why can't He destroy it? No one condemns me when I erase the designs I've created in a sandbox. I'm wondering why you would subject the Creator of the Universe to human morality. And while I understand completely why you understand Him as an ego-driven Deity, the entire Bible (as the Christians understand it) is the story of His death for the salvation of humans, which is a pretty impressive act of selflessness.

Hello. Might be a bit off topic here, or maybe not. what has interested me over the yrs is when somebody young, or a child dies, in whatever circumstance, I often hear someone say that god has better plans for them. Does that imply that he made a mistake by allowing them to be born in the first place? Always heard that he is all knowing. past, present, and future. To me it is contradictory to what I was taught as a child. I will admit that I am a non believer, even though I once thought I was a believer, but it raised so many questions , and brought about such torment in my life trying to reach out to him that I finally had to abandon the whole thing. Also, what has bothered me over the years is the fact that religion seems to be an adult oriented idea. My personal feelings about what a true god would be means that even children would know him immediatly and not have to spend their whole life trying to figure out if it is all real or not. I still struggle every day to understand.

reply to post by wildtimes


ok im going to start off with something that might come off as offensive but please dont take it that way. the 6000 year old earth line, simply is 2nd hand disinformation passed off as fact. people have taken

2 Peter 3 which says - ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

and combined it with god made the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. then its put into some sort of math equasion the way you would plug in variables. it was never meant to be taken literaly, thast why they used teh word "like". this is what i find 99% of the bibles misunderstandings come from.

as for aliens. im not a believer. I am however a beliver in deception. when i saw this article about things living in thsi lake in antartica i felt it completely #ed the whole evolutionary theory. if this creature could survive tehre. theres no reason life wouldnt be able to make it on mars or on venus in extreme climates. i think were pretty much alone. i feel like the bible even saw the whole alien deception thing coming. whcil i feel will be used to make everyone belive in a fake God. because i know a lot of people who would go for it hook line and sinker if some "man like alien" came from space claimg to be that. but i do know we can go to space as man. i do know that aliens have been very in your face but not for many years now. planting that seed of deception if it really wasnt actual aliens. i just know with scientists and what they want to experiment with wouldnt stop at making clones or something. who knaows if they woudlnt try to make a new species to be pawned off as aliens. i just feel like the bible calls everything out ahead of time.

Know this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
II Peter 3:3-6

Originally posted by curiousme333
Hello. Might be a bit off topic here, or maybe not. what has interested me over the yrs is when somebody young, or a child dies, in whatever circumstance, I often hear someone say that god has better plans for them. Does that imply that he made a mistake by allowing them to be born in the first place? Always heard that he is all knowing. past, present, and future. To me it is contradictory to what I was taught as a child. I will admit that I am a non believer, even though I once thought I was a believer, but it raised so many questions , and brought about such torment in my life trying to reach out to him that I finally had to abandon the whole thing. Also, what has bothered me over the years is the fact that religion seems to be an adult oriented idea. My personal feelings about what a true god would be means that even children would know him immediatly and not have to spend their whole life trying to figure out if it is all real or not. I still struggle every day to understand.

Hey Curious!
The Bible says that one has to become like a little child to come into the kingdom of God, or something along those lines. While "religion" may be (unfortunately) adult oriented, I think God is very interested in children.
I don't pretend to know why God takes children from our lives early, but I don't think He makes mistakes. Even in one, or two, or seventeen years someone can teach us so much, and make the world a much better place. Maybe God wants us to learn what they have to teach us in their brief lives. I am sure God has better plans for those children than WE did.
Still, though I think that God gives us humans free will, and sometimes this means that tragedy will occur. We can't really have it both ways, ya know?

or

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”


3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The Day and Hour Unknown36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

i think the alien theory is directly called out there. notice how aliens are makeing news latley. i dont think its coincidence

reply to post by StalkerSolent
Thanks for your input. Maybe I have been wrong and will face the wrath for giving up. But I do know one thing that I have always believed. And that is, if there is a god, so perfect and loving, he will see what is in my heart and soul, and maybe even weep.

reply to post by MikeHawke

the 6000 year old earth line, simply is 2nd hand disinformation passed off as fact. people have taken

2 Peter 3 which says - ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

and combined it with god made the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. then its put into some sort of math equasion the way you would plug in variables. it was never meant to be taken literaly, thast why they used teh word "like". this is what i find 99% of the bibles misunderstandings come from.

Why on EARTH would that offend me?
I agree with you. The Earth is several BILLION years old. I don't even see any possible way of disputing that without looking like an ill-educated fool.

Okay, my animals are asking me for attention, food, etc. I gotta go - cat keeps lying on my arm, blocking the keyboard, rubbing his head on my hand and chewing on my pen, keepiing me off of the computer, wouldn't even let me open my mail or write out a deposit check...purring the whole time.

and you think they don't talk to us...

By the way, I do hope that your job is not in a research lab that misuses animals - Zoos kind of make me sick, but if it's a medical facility for injured or ill animals, that's cool.

Do you ever wonder if that monkey is holding your hand, listening to you, and that is how he is asking you to help him escape from that cage? That's what comes to my mind when I saw that pic and read your anecdote about him.

I'll be back later - gotta do some laundry, run some errands, get ready to go out of town for tomorrow and Sunday (to a conference on religion/agnosticism/atheism, and making ethical decisions in an increasingly secular world. I'm excited about it!)

Excellent questions - just had this convo with my religious friends the other day (who are close enough to where they don't get offended when I ask questions).

I find religion to be very arbitrary and region dependent.

Originally posted by curiousme333
reply to post by StalkerSolent

 

Thanks for your input. Maybe I have been wrong and will face the wrath for giving up. But I do know one thing that I have always believed. And that is, if there is a god, so perfect and loving, he will see what is in my heart and soul, and maybe even weep.

You're quite welcome! But honestly, there's no reason to give up. Even just wanting to find the truth (which it sounds like you do) is a step in the right direction (I really don't know who would disagree with that.)
If you are interested in Christianity– no, scratch that–"Christianity" is kinda a broad brush. If you're interested in Christ, I would recommend reading/studying the Bible and praying. I guess that's the obvious answer, but the foundation of Christian belief is readily accessible for those who are interested in it.

reply to post by StalkerSolent
I appreciate your kindness. Life can be so daunting that it is hard to stay focused on what is really important. I will silently and privately reevaluate my position, but i am quite sure that whatever I decide I will never really know until my days are done.

reply to post by curiousme333


Welcome to ATS, curiousyou333!

You are not alone in your thinking and struggling. I totally understand what you mean, and religious dogma doesn't make sense to me, either.

I'm not sure what I think, except that I believe if there is a "Divine Reality", none of us can possibly understand it - it is beyond comprehension, and certainly not an old grey-bearded guy sitting above us watching billions of minds thinking and actions taken and deciding who he will "smite down."

No way. It's a preposterous suggestion, but yet there remain people who are convinced of it.

The Divine certainly doesn't "think like a human" - I highly doubt it is judgmental - but rather, more like how people who've had NDEs describe -- that's the info that I lean toward - and I do study NDEs and reincarnation theory and stories. That said, I find it plausible that we are immortal souls having an earthly experience in order to learn and grow in our spiritual understanding - all leading toward 'perfection' and it takes many, many lifetimes of experience to get there.

Whoever Jesus was, he was one of the more advanced 'souls', and no different from Krishna or Buddha in that regard.
I think it's plausible that we make a pre-birth "soul contract" to be in the circumstances and life - no matter how short or long it turns out to be - for ourselves to learn, or to help others learn something they need.

Once born, the veil of knowing descends, the forgetfulness, because if it didn't, and we knew all along it was only temporary and "not real" - we would fail to really LEARN the lessons and FEEL the feelings.

reply to post by wildtimes

By the way, I do hope that your job is not in a research lab that misuses animals - Zoos kind of make me sick, but if it's a medical facility for injured or ill animals, that's cool.

nah, i work at a hospital for people in the engineering department. the animals is my passion outside of work. animals, gardening/growing crops, and building projects is my passion. like at my house




as for this

Do you ever wonder if that monkey is holding your hand, listening to you, and that is how he is asking you to help him escape from that cage? That's what comes to my mind when I saw that pic and read your anecdote about him.

I couldn’t see it any other way. I always want them free, it breaks my heart to see them hating being in such an enclosed space forever. but those monkeys wouldnt touch anyone else but me. and when i walked away theyd follow me around teh cage. thats just how i am with them, sometimes i feel like they know my heart. but i really feel like thats the little bit of God in every species. I mean i look at it as he made it all.

I saw this video once of a monkey pointing at the door latch to people laughing at him for wanting out. I wanted to punch those people in the face and let him out not caring about any of the consequences. Id live in an atrium of animals if I could. Too bad were forced to work these #ing job things and you cant even have land without money. i hate the way the world has become from what it once was. just Indians making sure they had food, shelter, and water. them three necessities to life. Some how we took that and f***ed it hard into what we have now.

God has definitly helped me in my life. i cant go into explanation of how without writing forever. long ago i was a little punk ass hooligan. so the person your talkign to now used to be a lot worse (clearly i still have work to do). but it coudlnt of happened without God. right down to talking to people at just the right time about a certain problem when the window for it all the peices to fall into place looked so small and impossible. its hard to explain. but i do no this world has a design. its way too perfect to be an accident. thats why a scientist cant even make something that is taken for granted like say an "eyeball" thats so complex yet so abundant. so a scientist would say the world came from the big bang. just some accident and made something like this? but with all our knowlage of it, we just cant quite seem to come up with the materials to make it work. the most complex things of this world are the things people over look every day like your "skin". scenece doesnt impress me much. were still boiling water with pluton and calling it nuclear energy. man pats himself on the back way too much and discredits anything above his knowlege and blames it on nothing. i dont get it, if it was all an accident cause were both just "accidents". your point will be no more valid than mine. the fact that we have this conversation and not another species on earth does is what makes me believe in God. theres no wondering about God in the animal kingdom. they would make a shrine or something to show they wondered. just us humans. thats why i firmly believe we were made in Gods immage complete with the wondering about its existance. all i think of is this quote by C.S. Lewis

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.”

reply to post by sacgamer25

Maybe that's not the ending God intended, maybe we can learn to love one another. If we could learn to kill one another how much easier it should be to learn to love one another. Could we be at a state of evolution or will it just be a few. I am dreamer, I think we are ready to move forward.

Hi, sac! Glad you chimed in here.

I agree with you, that we are ready to move forward....
but I think it will be MUCH HARDER, not much easier, to learn to LOVE one another.
To succeed, we need dialogue, thoughtful active listening, and to try to put ourselves in their shoes - even the people we totally disagree with based on our culture or 'religion.'

Until the world is willing to LISTEN TO EACH OTHER, with compassion, we can't do it. I think it's actually easier to kill others and make increasingly devastating methods of destroying others and the Earth - our Mother and sustenance (in conjunction with the sun and moon, and possibly the entire workings of the universe - than it is to learn to know ourselves truly, and to be willing to know others truly, and find some common ground to work from -

toward peace, harmony, and care for EVERYONE alive.

reply to post by MikeHawke


It is not a coincidence. It is part of the NWO plan. The "4th Scenario" of the NWO says that the aliens are making contact with us. The next moment we welcome them to the Earth and then the antichrist appears to become our link to them. The "aliens" say that he is "sent by GOD" and people believe in him and they take the beast's mark as he will say. Again it's a scenario of NWO. It may happen, it may not.

toward peace, harmony, and care for EVERYONE alive.

This is the main point of Christianity. People like me screw up the image too much to the point where people discredit the whole religion. I should be a better representitive for it.. :/

Originally posted by JesusChristwins
reply to post by MikeHawke

 

It is not a coincidence. It is part of the NWO plan. The "4th Scenario" of the NWO says that the aliens are making contact with us. The next moment we welcome them to the Earth and then the antichrist appears to become our link to them. The "aliens" say that he is "sent by GOD" and people believe in him and they take the beast's mark as he will say. Again it's a scenario of NWO. It may happen, it may not.

This is exactly how i see it going down. Couldnt of said it better myself. Just watch the news..look at the popes take on aliens. Anyone see the "elect" connection?

Originally posted by Nightaudit

Originally posted by undo
the god of the old testament is more than one god.

Said no christian ever...

So, you DO believe in a whole different story, don´t you? Care to enlighten us? In a short way if you can manage?

i don't suggest that humans and reptiles comingled, sexually. i believe this is an example of genetic manipulation. for example, after the eve and then the adam were modified to reproduce via procreation, the elohim pitched a fit. they had a council meeting on it. the decision was made to NERF (downgrade) our genetics. the adam race didn't die before that. they had eternally regenerating body parts. when they were downgraded, they were given a limited life span, subject to disease and pain in childbirth. this was all part of the downgrade as a result of procreation. knowing good and evil, meant creating new life, be it good or not. whereas before the fall, adam reproduced via copying with no pain in childbirth, after the nerf, that all changed.

look at it like a logic puzzle. the usage of foreshadowing is evident in things like calling eve by the name of eve, in the text, before adam had even named her eve (it meant mother of all living and she wasn't a mother yet, when she's first introduced in the story. she doesn't become a mother, till after the fall of man narrative (procreation), so eve is not really eve when the story opens. that's just foreshadowing. she is different than the prior female adam, because she is procreative.). this same thing applies to the references of "you shall surely die" (referring to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil). this is because it is foreshadowing of what the addition of procreation would require. if the species has no mechanism to slow it's population increase, and has eternally regenerating body parts, they would over populate the planet, the solar system, the galaxy and the universe in a matter of a few thousand years. so we essentially traded in, eternally regenerating, no pain in childbirth bodies, for the chance to do the wild thang.



as far as the "said no christian ever" comment. understand that this is so because they are taught to believe, just as you have been, to read the text in only one way. period.