Stephen Hawking lays out case for Big Bang without God

reply to post by Phoenix267


Respectfully disagree.

Of course we are special on this tiny blue dot compared to everything on it but on a universal scale we are pretty insignificant. Not special at all.

Carl Sagan said that we cant even fully understand a single grain of sand on a beach. How can we ever fully understand the Universe? I am paraphrasing but the general gist applies.

I take comfort knowing that my contribution to the Universe is insignificant but my contribution to my family and close friends is immense. That is why life is so important.

I simply dont believe in heaven or hell because I cannot believe a god would make a heaven where my loved ones were not there even if they fall short of his grace. So I consider my mercy and forgiveness is greater than gods... especially the Abrahamic ones.

reply to post by Terminal1


You make a great case. It is true that in reality we're not special. But our lives do have meaning. What I mean is that as humans we have the tools to either lead into a better future or a dystopia for ourselves and our descendents. People are weird animals. By nature we're very irrational. As we have these weird rules we believe in so strongly. But goes against our natural nature. Like the concept of traditional marriage. Where people are generally polygamist by nature. Anyway I would have to look more into your comment. Thanks for sharing.

reply to post by sparky31




And there is nothing he can do about it........they just roll him out and hit play

reply to post by Phoenix267


Will respond in a moment, have had much difficulty posting this post

reply to post by LightAssassin


It's not just you matey. I keep getting 404'd and server probs all morning. Grrrrr it's getting a little tiresome now.

seriously tho do u really believe hes just being rolled out to say what they want him to say?even tho hes severely limited i just don,t go with that conspiracy.

reply to post by VoidHawk

Originally posted by VoidHawk
another thing, people always assume that before the big bang, or whatever happened, there must have been nothing!
Why is nothing considered to be the natural state of the universe?
What if there was rock or whatever, EVERYWHERE

Maybe all of space was solid! and the bang blew it all to pieces

If before the Big Bang there was only a absolute empty infinite space. Why cant the absolute empty space be something?

The absolute empty infinite space does exist even thou there is no finite present within it.

reply to post by sparky31


Well, he is after all a person people believe 100%

If you wanted a world to believe in one thing....why not pump it out from good old Prof Hawkins.



He even has the "feel sorry factor" for the really stupid people and grannies.



Just remember, next time you watch him on tv and he's staring right at your soul......he's lying to you.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Originally posted by VoidHawk
another thing, people always assume that before the big bang, or whatever happened, there must have been nothing!
Why is nothing considered to be the natural state of the universe?
What if there was rock or whatever, EVERYWHERE

Maybe all of space was solid! and the bang blew it all to pieces

If before the Big Bang there was only a absolute empty infinite space. Why cant the absolute empty space be something?

The absolute empty infinite space does exist even thou there is no finite present within it.

I agree

The truth is we just dont know.
For some in another universe, solid rock might appear to be empty space.
One day we may realize our empty space is solid. Depends how one looks at it

reply to post by Phoenix267


I can agree. My wife is important to me and vice versa. Our son is important. I can write a list but all these people in my life make this life pretty dag gone important

Big bang? Though nice to talk about... s'really not that important.

Cheers!!

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by CallYourBluff

 

I respectfully disagree. I think humans have the ability to understand the universe, life, and what not. Think about it. Look how much we have progressed throughout the years when we simple hunter-gathers. I would imagine seeing their reactions at how we live and think today. Also I have posted two links about the big bang theory. If you're interested you can read them. I'll also find more information to share of this subject.

I understand the current theories of the Big Bang quite well (believe me, I don't come here for copy and paste science education), but the fact still remains that no theory can even touch on the where it came from or why. Hell, our race still can't come to a consensus on the building of the Pyramids, never mind the origin of existence.

Originally posted by CallYourBluff
I find it funny every time our primitive race deludes itself into thinking it can explain our existence in this Universe.

Edit to add, those who champion the Big Bang theory never address the question of where it came from or why.

edit on 17-4-2013 by CallYourBluff because: (no reason given)

The words scientists use have a very different meaning from the meaning we are used to. When science says there was nothing before the big bang, they do not mean absolutely nothing. They mean nothing from our spacetime bubble.

Obviously, since nothing cannot produce something, there was something before the big bang. It was another universe, possibly different than ours, possibly with different laws of physics. Something happened in it which caused the creation of our space time bubble.

Originally posted by spy66
If there were no time before the Big Bang than space must have been absolutely empty and infinite. This would make the absolutely empty infinite space a absolute constant.

How would a absolutely empty infinite space form our finite existence randomly?

How do you explain it with science?

and where did the space come from initially (and space can never be perfectly empty)? it doesn't make sense. i could care less if a god existed or not, but there is no evidence nor logical explanation of the universe coming into being without a god.

time and space are close cousins. time is a result of one dimension traveling through a higher dimension. i find it sad that so many reject things because of personal bias.

reply to post by masterp

The words scientists use have a very different meaning from the meaning we are used to. When science says there was nothing before the big bang, they do not mean absolutely nothing. They mean nothing from our spacetime bubble. Obviously, since nothing cannot produce something, there was something before the big bang. It was another universe, possibly different than ours, possibly with different laws of physics. Something happened in it which caused the creation of our space time bubble.

some scientists think that, but then they're forced to ponder the question "where did the other universe come from?". from another collision ad infinitum!

no. there is no evidence for it, nor is there a reason to consider that unless one deliberately wishes to toss out the hypothesis of a creator....which is exactly why some physicists take that route. no idea should be tossed out because of a bias.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

and where did the space come from initially

Are you kidding me. Why don't you put some effort into your answers.

(and space can never be perfectly empty)?

Do you know why we can not create a absolute empty space? There is a very good reason for it. It is not because it cant exist.
Just because we cant observe or create a absolute empty space does not mean it doesn't exist.

i find it sad that so many reject things because of personal bias.

And you are one of these people.

reply to post by Phoenix267


I have read that in one of his latest books quite a while ago, and I do not think that his analysis is relevant.

He is a very bright mind, and maybe there is a technical possibility that the big bang happened without a direct divine intervention. But it still doesn´t answer the question why nothing turned into something, where the dna came from etc.

Just to clarify, I do believe in science and pretty much all that comes with it, because it is easy once you understand it.

But in this particular point I have to disagree with Mr. Hawking. Saying that the big bang could have happened without a god, does not disprove god.

We live in a system that has produced intelligent life. To me it is logical that there is some form of intelligent process behind all that.

I still think that some form of intelligence is so far the most probable reason for the existence of the universe.

reply to post by spy66

Are you kidding me. Why don't you put some effort into your answers.

it was a question, not an answer.

the heisenberg uncertainty principle prevents it's energy value from being known at a specific time. both cannot be perfectly known. there are things called virtual particles that pop in and out of existence due to fluctuations that aren't observable (one could even argue that the fluctuations don't exist), yet virtual particles account for hawking radiation, so they clearly sort-of exist.

so no. "empty" space isn't empty because it cannot have a value of zero. it is not something that hinges on human observance. it's own existence interferes with itself preventing true nothingness from existing.

from what i read i thought i was agreeing with you, but disagreements create knowledge. i do not reject the notion of a universe that came into being by "natural" means that don't involve a god of some kind out of any bias. i considered it carefully and found the explanations lacking.

I can believe that some crippled being like Stephen Hawking could come to existence without God's will, but, sorry, so many beautiful things in this world could have not. They have a creative spark behind them, too obvious not to notice.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


I feel like an absolute Bee with an itch for laughing at this comment.

I'm ashamed of myself.

Well, I do not believe in the big bang so I think his whole case is flawed. I think our universe is growing like a leaf on the tree of life. I think there are many leafs (universes) on this tree. It depends on what a person thinks god is as to whether god exists. This whole thing that we see is part of something big that is connected together by forces that we have yet to understand. The fact that it is expanding just shows growth to me, why do they have to over-dramatize things and make things into an explosion. As for Stephen Hawkings, how do we even know it is him talking. How do we know if he is even sane yet, the present world is far from sane. If you are sane and do not desire things that you do not need than you are considered not normal in this world today. Conditioning has taken us far from reality.