Civil War in Venezuela

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posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by maythetruthbeknown
 


Update.......Attack on newspaper building


Daniel Murolo, chief editor of the newspaper La Region, reported that about 150 motorized, dressed in red shirts and government supporters shouted slogans attacked the headquarters of the newspaper and threw Molotov cocktails.


globovision.com...

Also people fired for supporting the opposition.....

www.eluniversal.com...

Doesn't sound like a dictator at all lol




posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by maythetruthbeknown
reply to post by frazzle
 


reply to post by frazzle
 


Just had a nice long reply typed out but it timed out...How annoying.......

I am enjoying this debate with you and yes we will have to agree to disagree on some things. However if you were to ask almost any educated Venezuelan they will almost certainly say the same things.

As you may or may not be aware there is an exchange control in Venezuela .
A US dollar is work 6.3 Bolivar Fuerte (official rate)
Black market rate is between 21-23.

If someone wants to go abroad they have to apply to get dollars or they can buy on the black market for a much higher rate. There is a limit on how much you are allowed and it can be refused. Bolivar can not be changed up in other countries.

Inflation is out of control. A lot of products are imported and because of the exchange control businesses do not want to set up in Venezuela

If you have any questions for my wife I will be happy to ask her


I've had a few time outs myself, and then the most frustrating of all, a power outage just as I was getting ready to submit my last response! But I'm enjoying the conversation, as well, so I'll start over.

The exchange control, from what I understand, is just more of the dollar hegemony that is making life difficult for so many people all over the world. That's why the US is so insistent that Venezuela MUST elect leadership that will maintain a dollar paradigm which keeps everyone "in line, in debt and devalued". But more and more nations are balking at that and unfortunately its going to get people hurt, just as it has in Libya and Iraq and other countries where the gold dinar and other currencies were gaining influence.

It isn't about Chavez or Maduro, its about keeping anyone out of office ANY where (including the US ~ like for instance Ron Paul) who challenges the federal reserve's control, and they'll do anything they have to, to stop anyone who does, including throwing a few "spontaneous" violent protests (or worse) and publishing harshly written editorials about "who" started them and "who" funds them.

Although I can't translate the links you provided, I will grant you that Maduro is not Chavez, but he's not had an opportunity to even show WHO he is or what he intends to do before his detractors started hollering that he'll ruin the country. He was elected BY THE PEOPLE, that should be enough.

And which one of these two guys do you think would be more likely to represent the regular everyday people of Venezuela and which one would gravitate more towards the interests of the wealthy?

"Maduro, 50, is a former bus driver who rose to become Chavez's vice president, while Capriles, 40, comes from a wealthy family with extensive business interests." www.nbcnews.com...

I can't think of any questions off the top of my head but thanks for offering to ask them for me.



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by Hopechest
Yet another little South American country who can't seem to govern themselves without violence.

Put a fence around the country, drop a ton of weapons in there, and see who comes out on top.


Couple of months and we may be able to say that about a North American country.

I wouldnt suggest what you have though.



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


reply to post by frazzle
 





I've had a few time outs myself, and then the most frustrating of all, a power outage just as I was getting ready to submit my last response! But I'm enjoying the conversation, as well, so I'll start over.


Speaking of power outages my wife has just lost power. This is a frequent event due to the lack of maintenance on the now state run national grid. In my opinion it is a total ineptness on behalf of the government , there is no excuse, they had the funds




The exchange control, from what I understand, is just more of the dollar hegemony that is making life difficult for so many people all over the world. That's why the US is so insistent that Venezuela MUST elect leadership that will maintain a dollar paradigm which keeps everyone "in line, in debt and devalued".


People are getting rich off the exchange control. It is a totally separate market. People want dollars so they can take them out of the country. It is hurting the economy. If I use my card I will be charged 6.3 BF but If I have physical dollars ( I owe you notes I know) then i can get up to 23 BF for them. However for a person wanting to go on holiday for example, they have to apply for the dollars. Then they have to wait up to 6 weeks and ....(dont quote me on this) they can only get up to 1000 cash and 300 to spend online once a year. This is at the official rate.. A lot of people change at the higher rate through necessity.

Her power just came back




But more and more nations are balking at that and unfortunately its going to get people hurt, just as it has in Libya and Iraq and other countries where the gold dinar and other currencies were gaining influence.


I agree with this




It isn't about Chavez or Maduro, its about keeping anyone out of office ANY where (including the US ~ like for instance Ron Paul) who challenges the federal reserve's control, and they'll do anything they have to, to stop anyone who does, including throwing a few "spontaneous" violent protests (or worse) and publishing harshly written editorials about "who" started them and "who" funds them
.

I agree the banking cartels do manipulate all they can to have control. However this situation in Venezuela is different. People do actually love Capriles and they do love Chavez/Maduro. There is a polarity like never before.




I will grant you that Maduro is not Chavez, but he's not had an opportunity to even show WHO he is or what he intends to do before his detractors started hollering that he'll ruin the country. He was elected BY THE PEOPLE, that should be enough.
,
He hasnt had the opportunity I grant you. Who really did win the election though?. Either way It was close. Surely what should happen is they should work together so the whole country is represented.

That is what really needs to happen.




And which one of these two guys do you think would be more likely to represent the regular everyday people of Venezuela and which one would gravitate more towards the interests of the wealthy? "Maduro, 50, is a former bus driver who rose to become Chavez's vice president, while Capriles, 40, comes from a wealthy family with extensive business interests


Maduro came from humble roots therefore can relate to the plights of the poor. However he is poorly educated and in my opinion does not have a clue how to run a country and deal with the international community.

Capriles is very apt for the job. He is well educated, a good speaker and would get the country back on track.
I dont want to see Venezuelas mineral wealth go to big corporations, I want it to be spent on the country, on schools, hospitals, industry, farming projects and the infrastructure that is in serious need of modernization

Maybe the solution is dual leadership or at least Capriles as vice president .....Will get my wife to start a campaign....

Making sure I copy it all 1st in case of timeout
Lucky , it did time out
edit on 17-4-2013 by maythetruthbeknown because: damn time outs



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by maythetruthbeknown



enrique Capriles listed in detail the list of some of the irregularities that were detected in the voting process on Sunday. Presented facts and some documents (such as minutes) that prove their allegations. - There were 535,000 damaged machines, which represent 189,982 votes. -
There were 1,176 centers where Maduro pulled more votes than Hugo Chavez, one of those he said drew nearly 1,000% more votes. "Who can believe that Maduro has pulled more votes than Chavez, if nearly 1 million voters voted for Capriles Chavez," he said. - He said that witnesses were removed by force in 286 centers, which means more than 722,983 voters. -
He reported that there were 564 assisted voting centers, which affects 1,479,774 voters. - He said that more than 600,000 people died in the ER, who voted many people over 100 years old. - The standard bearer of the opposition said that there were 397 centers where voters were intimidated, something that would affect 1,240,000 voters. -
He also explained that in 421 centers were proselytizing, which affected 1,180,000 voters. He said there are also cases of polling stations where there were more votes than voters who appear on the tally. "That must be an audit, because when reviewing everything can detect the problem. The law says that if there is an irregularity table is canceled at that table, "he said.



If I were a betting man, I would wager every dollar I have in favor of the CIA being responsible for the broken machines.


edit on 17-4-2013 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Bone75
 


Regardless of who is responsible I believe the vote was rigged infavour of Maduro.That being said the vote would of still been very close and as stated in my previous post I think they should share power to avoid bloodshed.



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 10:40 PM
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Format error
edit on 17-4-2013 by Skittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 10:42 PM
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Dear ATS Readers, Writers,

WOW, sorry to hear it went this way.

I read something last week about the US government trying to intervene. And a USA "think tank" advocating getting their SOB in charge, to open it up to USA business etc...

CIA definitely involved down there.

Thankfully, your wife was spared any harm!

Not sure of the nature of her visit, but if she CAN, I'd encourage her to get the FLOCK out of there, and get back home to the UK ASAP. NO NEED TO PUSH HER LUCK THERE MATE! It "sounds" like it might get even uglier as far as violence goes, so just saying..

I understand a lot of times folks get plane tickets with certain return dates on them, and they gotta wait til then, or else it costs a bunch to go earlier, or later...SO If this is the case, tell her to lay low, avoid crowds..especially if they are any anti Chavez types...demonstrating!! ORRrrr the winners crowd..for that matter. NO CROWDS!!

Keep in touch with you back home daily or more often as needed, just to calm your nerves if nothing else.

Personally, I'd be having a cow if my wife was there in that situation!! Hock the family jewels to get her home NOW if need be!

Hope she returns to you safe and unharmed... Too bad this crap is happening down there.. and folks are dying over it. sigh.

Pravdaseeker



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by pravdaseeker
 


Are they dying their hair?



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


Wow...

Someone makes a thread about something very serious for a country and for them personally with their wife involved and you drop crappy remarks like this...



To the op: I hope that your wife gets back to you safely, I can't imagine the stress that you both and your family are going through.



posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by Hopechest
Yet another little South American country who can't seem to govern themselves without violence.

Put a fence around the country, drop a ton of weapons in there, and see who comes out on top.


Aaahhh...USA. Another silly North American country who can't seem to govern themselves without violence.
How about we pass a couple of sanctions to forbid food and oil imports?



posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


Hopechest,

You know, I have been seeing you pop in on a LOT of threads. You have a HUGE # of posts. In a little over 2 months you have 1300+ posts.

Unfortunately, almost ALL of them are not well thought out, or heartless, or some MAJOR flaw. Do you do this on purpose? Or do you even do anything except CAMP on ATS to make inflammatory statements, or poorly thought out replies???

I for one, and I'll bet a number of other ATS posters are tired of your crapola.

MANY of your responses are pretty brainless 1 or 2 line vapid replies too... WHY? Or are you really that flawed?

PLEASE refrain. ESPECIALLY on threads where a member of ATS family is involved in a dangerous situation.

Good grief!! THINK a bit before replying.

Pravdaseeker



posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by Skittle
 


Skittle,

Definition:

DYING

1.On the point of death.
2.Occurring at or connected with the time that someone dies.

Are you a "Hopechest clone"...? WHAT was the purpose of your reply?

Are you "drank" because you are despondent over not being able to pay for your lobotomy?

You have the right to be a knucklehead if you want I suppose; but could you NOT do it in a thread where a member of ATS family is in a dangerous situation??

I apologize to ATS members for my last 2 posts but GOOD GRIEF... come on Hopechest, and Skittle..ENGAGE BRAIN just a little bit before adding to a thread! People like you Skittle serve ATS no good with replies like that one over the word "DYING". His wife barely missed getting gunned down, or having to witness something horrible. What is WRONG with you, seriously?

Sorry folks but DANG!!!!

Pravdaseeker



posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 03:05 AM
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The machine gun fire (especially considering it was on a motorbike), is most likely related to the gang violence in Venezuela, which is widespread, not any political divisions and violence.



posted on Apr, 18 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by maythetruthbeknown
 


For sure I don’t know the ins and outs of this exchange control or what its purpose might be OTHER than for someone on the inside of the banking cartels to make another bundle of money. I don’t know who created that system or who would be in a position to change it but I will look into that a little more to get a better idea of what’s going on with it.

Venezuela was a pit of desperation prior to Chavez and one person can only do so much in 14 years, especially when the opposition makes everything extra difficult. I did link some information about what all he DID accomplish for the people but it never seemed to be enough ~ at least not for the RIGHT people. Free medical care, free education, tens of thousands of homes for those who didn’t have one before. Those things mean nothing to people who can afford to pay for the best, but it means a great deal to those who cannot and they made up the lion’s share of the population.

I didn’t know you were in the UK (not paying enough attention) and I can’t speak to what all you folks need and aren’t getting from your government, but here in the US the highways, bridges, dams, electric grid and all other infrastructure is in a pitiful state and the money was there to rebuild it all, but what did we do with that money? Right, we bombed whole sovereign nations into the stone age for no good reason with all that borrowed moola. The UK was right in there with us, borrowing and bombing like madmen, so if you ask me, we have enough on our own plates without worrying about the terrible things Chavez did or Maduro might do.

The thing about the polarization of the people is merely the division between the haves and the have nots, plain and simple. And that isn’t limited to Venezuela, its everywhere. I am not a “socialist”, whatever the heck that might mean, but the haves WILL NOT share power with the have nots and that’s crux of the problem. They want feudalism back and they won’t settle for anything less, which is why a coalition government is unworkable. It would be a taffy pull.

And that’s why I have to disagree with you on how much better Capriles would have been with his privileged upbringing and education, he has spent his lifetime mingling with the haves and cut his teeth on feudalistic ideas. Even you speak of humble roots as being something unsavory and unworthy of trust. The fact is that the wealthy few have run this world into the ground and even they will pay a price for it, their investments will evaporate like the morning dew because there is no substance behind it.





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