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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Originally posted by something wicked
Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Originally posted by something wicked
Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
reply to post by DISRAELI
She "won" her battles? Did you miss the part about putting 3-5 million people out of work, effecting and destroying many families, the loss of secure well paid jobs where people could actually have a dispute with their employer? The loss of industrial skill sets, such as ship building, steel working?
You dont think there's a little more to it than people feeling defeated by this woman?
Sheesh, I hope you never go into politics or finance. As emotive as the subject is, do you know how many industries were working at a loss? Do you think that should have continued ad infinitum until the UK was completely bankrupt? You come out with socialist worker rhetoric which has no backing in fact - notice how no large private companies took on the opportunity to rebuild those industries in the UK? Why do you think that is?
Ive never stated that there was no need for change, however i am greatly critical as to how her and her government went about those changes. That's where the anger comes from. Do you understand that? Rub the pound signs out of your eyes and wake up.
Grow up and stop throwing childish comments about - you betray your age. The labour government in the 70's tried the same approach - look it up, it's not that difficult, but refused to stand up to the unions which led to things getting worse rather than better. The joke of this is that I am fairly ambivalent about Thatcher (not sure there are many who can say that), but it's the lack of an educated discussion on this that just peeves me off because there is this wealth of crap that has grown up and become perceived as fact.
Explain the following to me:
Originally posted by something wicked
Explain the following to me:
[img]
I wouldn't want to attempt to as a) the page is unavailable and b) I have no interest in being a member of facebook.
If I linked to pictures of rats running around un-collected rubbish, or bodies that couldn't be buried due to strikes in the late 70's what would you think of that? What point are you trying to make.
As for your previous post around Tony Benn - you assume the UK was ruined, that is your opinion. At the end of the 70's we were literally close to real economic ruin - we were well known as the 'sick man of Europe' - don't you know any of this at all? Where do you get your facts? I'm being polite about this as all you do is spout the standard socialist worker responses with little actual fact.
Ah, you've pasted in the picture now. Can I ask for a source please? Lots of emotive statements on there without facts to back them up and (for the sake of Fudge) Atlee was picking up and riding off the back of a war - although I take nothing away from the establishment of the NHS.
Also, I do see it is from a source that is clearly shall we say..... misinformed or stupid? Thatcher didn't get a state funeral.
Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
Originally posted by something wicked
Also, I do see it is from a source that is clearly shall we say..... misinformed or stupid? Thatcher didn't get a state funeral.
Not a full state funeral no, but 10 million out of the tax payers pocket and full military honours!? Please explain to me why she is so deserving of such a service!?
Jumping in shower after a 5 mile run.
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
Originally posted by eliteosbo
ive seen this picture comparing atlee to thatcher ..for the record ..it wasnt atlee that instigated the nhs it was bevan
Aneurin Bevan
Secretary of State for Health
Aneurin "Nye" Bevan PC was a Welsh Labour Party politician who was the Minister for Health in the post-war Attlee government from 1945 to 1951, and also the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party from 1959 until his death in 1960. Wikipedia
Born: November 15, 1897, Monmouthshire
Died: July 6, 1960, Chesham
Spouse: Jennie Lee, Baroness Lee of Asheridge (m. 1934–1960)
Party: Labour Party
also in case anyone didnt know these facts here they are for your persual
1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation
Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by something wicked
Okay apart from Black Wednesday being included, what else aren't facts on that long list?
We have discussed a number of things on several threads and you claimed you were not a Tory, yet you defend them at every opportunity.
Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by eliteosbo
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
I don't know if you can recall when people used to receive unemployment benefit for a year? Under Thatcher that was reduced to 6 months and overnight the unemployment numbers almost halved.
Originally posted by something wicked
Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by something wicked
Okay apart from Black Wednesday being included, what else aren't facts on that long list?
We have discussed a number of things on several threads and you claimed you were not a Tory, yet you defend them at every opportunity.
With respect, you are missing the point. Facts are either correct or they are not. I will defend if 'facts' are opinion based as fact if it's Blair or Thatcher or any of the others. Saying okay, one is wrong isn't good enough, it raises the need to review the others rather than a knee jerk acceptance.
For the record, where it's in an area I've got an interest in I'll do the same in ATS or other forums regardless of the subject - I've no bias apart from fact being fact rather than opinion based as fact.
Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by something wicked
Almost all so-called facts are actually subjective opinion. You disagree with 'fact' # 5 but my own experience is quite different. In the 70's extremism existed within the trade unions and did their members no favours whatsoever (some even declaring a stated intention of wanting to bring down the company).
The unions were required - had they never existed and never had any power we'd still be sending kids up chimneys However during, and following, Thatcher's term in office the pendulum of power has swung way too much away from labour and way too close to capital. And really - look where that has got us.
Originally posted by eliteosbo
Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by eliteosbo
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
I don't know if you can recall when people used to receive unemployment benefit for a year? Under Thatcher that was reduced to 6 months and overnight the unemployment numbers almost halved.
i do remember i had my benefit cut back then ..
and something wicked ..i didnt cut n paste it ..my son did .pedants are never gonna be happy with any facts are they ?..and half the internet is cut n paste ..its the new thing apparently ..these young whippersnappers eh and their new fangled technology ...
you say potato i say ..good riddance to the lowlife in high places .