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Democrats Need To Rethink Abortion Issue

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posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 12:52 PM
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I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm one of the most liberal people there is--and if those Christian Fundies who voted for Bush observed my religious practices, they'd probably burn my house down 5 x over...

Abortion was a key issue for many Christians in this election. I'm an occasional watcher of the religious cable channels & they were all presenting shows right before Election Day about how a vote for a pro-abortion candidate was a sin, that it sanctioned murder, etc.

A lot of Christians just can't get over the abortion issue, & it's a "deal-breaker" for them in terms of voting Democrat.

My question is: why are Democrats, liberals, feminists, etc. so blind as to not see (or admit) that killing a fetus is taking a life? I mean, isn't this a no-brainer?

I'm for gay rights, gay marriage, religious freedom, the whole liberal platform--but it is quite obvious to me that a fetus is alive, and that abortion is the act of killing it.

A Catholic bishop was discussing this issue, and said that there are some things you can "split hairs" on -- kind of referring to the whole gay thing -- and there are somethings you just can't. He also added that many people in this country have developed a "blindness" to the abortion issue to the point that they just can't understand what's wrong about it. And this is true--until I really sat down and thought about it, I just assumed that abortion was completely ok & that it was just a medical procedure & on the same line as birth-control.

It's one thing to have an emergency situation & need to have an abortion (life-or-death, etc.). But is it really moral for a 17-year old who "just isn't ready" for a baby to go to the clinic and have what is developing inside her destroyed?

Democrats really need to rethink this issue--to at least free themselves from the programming they've been fed in their social circles and look at the issue from a new perspective. I think their acceptance of abortion as a viable choice (except for extreme cases as I've said) hurts them not only in the South & the Heartland (and with Catholics in the East Coast), but I really think it hurts them karmically and morally as well.

To be fair, the Pro-Lifers for the most part have totally screwed the pooch in their "outreach" and could really use a good advertising agency. And for Fundies to be Pro-Life but anti birth control is beyond insane.

And to those who would say (and have said) that without abortion, the population would dramatically skyrocket--then let's just say what it is, government-sanctioned de-population techniques. Let's just own up to what it is & not cushion it in rhetoric about how the fetus is not really alive or "women's rights" etc.

And my pagan brothers & sisters out there: if the trees & the rocks & the rivers are alive with "elemental spirits" and deserve to be respected & protected, shouldn't we extend a fetus or an embryo or a zygote the same courtesy?

The Democrats harp on the Fundies & the Conservatives & the Republicans & complain that they are completely resistant to changing their calcified views, unable to look at things with a fresh, non-dogmatic perspective. But couldn't they say the same thing about themselves?




posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 12:57 PM
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Pro abortion is the way to go.. enough said.

Unless these conservative republicans are prepared to help out the mother, they should shut up and let abortions become legal.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:00 PM
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Should Democrats reconsider creationism as well ?

Seriously, parties are supposed to lead not pander to the worst ideologies of a backward minority.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by John bull 1]



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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I agree, if the Dems simply change thier platform to attract voters, what does it say about thier convictions? As a staunch PRO CHOICE Republican, If everything is equal among the candidates I will cross party line to chose the Pro Choice one. Asumming they are equal mind you.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:02 PM
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The truth Cassie is that it does not matter, onces a woman find herself in a situation, for any reason, if she is going to commit abortion she will do it not matter what her religion, politicians or family will tell her.

Abortion is an old issue and has been in used since human has walked the earth, either for control or for elimination.

If abortion becomes illegal in any aspect, women will go back to the old days of secret dirty and hidden coat hanger version, occurs now we are more modern, but still the life expectancy of these woman will change for the worst.

Abortion will always be around.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:03 PM
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So you are saying that a person should abandon their beliefs in order to make friends? Personally, I don't need friends that bad.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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Hey, Bush's partial birth ban would have had more support and more than likely wouldn't have been considered unconstitutional if they had just put in provisions that would have ensured that it wouldn't have been denied to women who genuinely needed it to prevent death or servere health problems....Maybe the libs aren't the only ones who need to change their stance a little?

And, well, what turned me off wasn't so much weather or not abortion is morally wrong, but rather.....is it morallly right to prosecute mentally impaired people as murderers for refusing c-sections. Sorry, when it comes to my body, my health, and my life.....I get the final say...not some nit wit in Washington who has proved time and again that such things as my life and health are of no concern to him.

Besides.....women have been aborting babies for a very long time....much longer than we've had all this advanced medicine... Just writing a law will not change that fact.....they used to burn them as witches and it didn't stop them...

What legalized abortion did do was to force society to recognize it's existance, the reasons surrounding it, and the developement of other birth control methods. Thus, it probably has also prevented some abortions also, by preventing the pregnacy.

Hey, can we also make a provision that when the family breaks up, decides that they just can't live in the same household anymore, that the parent who is making the most money gets custody of the kids? Instead of running off leaving mom and kiddies as wards of the state and dodging their child support by faking disability or running from state to state, ect???



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by RedOctober90
Pro abortion is the way to go.. enough said.

Unless these conservative republicans are prepared to help out the mother, they should shut up and let abortions become legal.


So they should shut up and let the termination of a life become legal, is what you're saying?



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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I agree it's time to make abortion illegal! Then watch as thousands of woman die in back alley abortions like what went on before roe vs wade. Then maybe, just maybe we can get people to re think abortion and actually make pro choice law and move the on to real issues.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by John bull 1
Should Democrats reconsider creationism as well ?

Seriously, parties are supposed to lead not pander to the worst ideologies of a backward minority.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by John bull 1]


So what you're saying is:
1) The idea that abortion is the ending of a life is just as baseless and "whacked out" as creationism?

2) That the idea of not killing a fetus is one of the worst ideologies of the "backward minority"? I beg to differ--it is one of the few purely noble & inarguably moral positions they have.

And my friend...WE are the minority, not the people in this world guided by fundamentalist, devout religious beliefs (as I was reminded this morning).



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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--but it is quite obvious to me that a fetus is alive, and that abortion is the act of killing it...

It's one thing to have an emergency situation & need to have an abortion (life-or-death, etc.). But is it really moral for a 17-year old who "just isn't ready" for a baby to go to the clinic and have what is developing inside her destroyed?


So it is okay then to kill some but not all? What is the difference in the value of the life between the one you would willing sanction taking and the one you won't?



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
I agree, if the Dems simply change thier platform to attract voters, what does it say about thier convictions?


Didn't say that they should do that. Simply said that they should apply the same call to "openmindedness" to themselves as they do to their opponents.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
I agree, if the Dems simply change thier platform to attract voters, what does it say about thier convictions?


Didn't say that they should do that. Simply said that they should apply the same call to "openmindedness" to themselves as they do to their opponents.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
I agree, if the Dems simply change thier platform to attract voters, what does it say about thier convictions?


Didn't say that they should do that. Simply said that they should apply the same call to "openmindedness" to themselves as they do to their opponents.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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I wish everyone could change their minds on the abortion issue. I do not agree with it. Never have and never will. Unfortunately, I know it will never be illegal, at lesat not in my lifetime. So I really don't feel the need to fight it. It s a loosing battle.

However, I would like to see a larger stance on partial birth abortion. This proceedure should be eliminated and illegal. It is one of the most horrible proceedures you could ever imagine.




Edited for clarification and spelling.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by rachlls]



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 02:03 PM
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Abortion is the MURDER of an innocent child. The holocaust that has come about since Roe vs. Wade is a stain on our nation’s soul that will not easily be removed. It is of such magnitude that future generations will look back on this time we live in with horror.

For those of you talking about “Women dying because of Back Alley” abortions please tell me how many children were murdered in this diabolic procedure last year. Think nearly that many women will die in botched abortions? No way, abortions are now used as a form of birth control in this country instead of a surgical procedure to save the life of the women.

You’re right, the democratic party should change their position on abortion. They should do this because it is the moral and correct thing to do. Until they do so they will be in the obviously weaker moral position.

It is unbelievable to me that anyone takes any other stance.

By the way, nations have morals that guide their lawmaking. Thank goodness that GW is going to appoint the next few Supreme Court justices and we’ll have rid ourselves of this evil, vile, practice.

For those of you who support abortion I suggest you go hold a small child in your arms and then try to imagine crushing it’s head. If you can do that without being horrified and disgusted I don’t want you in my country.

This is NOT a religious position, as many here would like to frame it. It is a moral position. Killing children is wrong and abortion is the killing of unborn children. You should know that.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 02:03 PM
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"My question is: why are Democrats, liberals, feminists, etc. so blind as to not see (or admit) that killing a fetus is taking a life? I mean, isn't this a no-brainer?"

The real question is who owns my body, the government or me. If you think you are a puppet of the government they your argument is valid, if you think your body is your own and the decision is between you and your maker then you see the other side, either way it's about time people quit forcing their views on other people. This country was founded on people being able to do what they wanted, freedom, not being forced to do what someone else wanted, slavery.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043:
The truth Cassie is that it does not matter, onces a woman find herself in a situation, for any reason, if she is going to commit abortion she will do it not matter what her religion, politicians or family will tell her.
Answer: People will do the same thing if they get addicted to drugs or are determined to kill themselves. That in itself is not a justification.

Originally posted by marg6043:
Abortion is an old issue and has been in used since human has walked the earth, either for control or for elimination.
Answer: So is rape & slavery.

Originally posted by marg6043:
If abortion becomes illegal in any aspect, women will go back to the old days of secret dirty and hidden coat hanger version, occurs now we are more modern, but still the life expectancy of these woman will change for the worst.
Answer: That's not a justification for abortion. Saying: "If I don't get my way I'll go do something harmful & potentially deadly to myself" is not an answer to anything, nor should laws be set up just to placate those people.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Jonna
So you are saying that a person should abandon their beliefs in order to make friends? Personally, I don't need friends that bad.


What I'm saying is that people who accuse segments of society of being closeminded and slaves to knee-jerk dogma should not be closeminded and slaves to knee-jerk dogma themselves...

...don't you agree?



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 02:10 PM
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Sorry GrndLkNatv but the state has the right to stop certain actions. Freedom != Anarchy. We can stop you from committing murder, we can stop you from jumping off a building. Basically the government is allowed to enforce basic moral standards that the community at large deems very important. That is why stealing, murder, and a host of other actions are crimes.

As the DNC is finding out, a majority of this culture thinks abortion should be one of those crimes and is acting on it. It seems to me a lot of sour grapes are coming from people here who don’t like the results. We voted our conscience in this election and have worked within the system to get Roe vs. Wade changed. God willing, in a few short years this will happen.



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