National Socialism and the Muslim-SS

That was demonstrated when the Waffen SS enlarged its ranks to include 60,000 Islamic SS. The Waffen SS respected their way of life, their customs, and their religious beliefs. Each Islamic SS battalion had an imam, each company had a mullah. It was our common wish that their qualities found their highest expression.

The Rest is Here

Whats everyones thoughts about this? I mean, why wasn't the Muslim-SS mentioned in the history books?

A quick run of "the Mufti" or "Muslim SS" through google turns up alot more sites...

I apologize if anyone considers this offending, or racist, but I'm merely posting it to see what peoples thoughts are and whatnot. If this is in the wrong forum, then any moderators please move it...

Alright, but I think you should tread VERY carefully here. That whole website seems to be run by a Neo-Nazi. Look at all the links: creating a new reich, the folkish state, etc. It seems to be a thinly-veiled attempt to justify Nazi racism in the guise of modern notions of multiculturalism, etc.

It's a clever way of doing it (just like the current justification for "white power"), but all in all, it is patently racist material.

The fact that you arenot making any assertions about it one way or the other makes your post a relatively "safe" one, and kudos to you for being politic about it, so far . . . in my opinion, but I'd be worried about some of the responses.

Alright, before I get flamed for being a Neo-Nazi white supremecist, I'd like to make the fact that I am a Native American clear. I do not condone the actions of the Third Reich, or any form of Genocide. My people themselves were ethnically cleansed, so I'm not going to raise doubt on the Holocaust or anything like that.

But I've never seen this discussed on the board before and I just wanted to share something I'd seen on the net before.

Originally posted by LTD602
The fact that you arenot making any assertions about it one way or the other makes your post a relatively "safe" one, and kudos to you for being politic about it, so far . . . in my opinion, but I'd be worried about some of the responses.

No worries there LTD. The type of posting you're talking about MAY happen but will not be tolerated.

I think that this inclusion of foreign nationals as SS troops came toward the end of the war when Germany desperately needed to replace it's dwindling army.

I always thought this importing of differing races into the 'pure' SS wonderfully ironic though.

Jack

Weise . . . it's all good. No worries.

It's an interesting issue, and seems to be a historical one, at that.

And yes, the irony is certainly there.

Originally posted by Weise
That was demonstrated when the Waffen SS enlarged its ranks to include 60,000 Islamic SS. The Waffen SS respected their way of life, their customs, and their religious beliefs. Each Islamic SS battalion had an imam, each company had a mullah. It was our common wish that their qualities found their highest expression.

This quote is from The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1982-83 (Vol. 3, No. 4). This essay by Leon Degrelle (1906-1994), was first presented at the Fourth IHR Conference in Chicago (Sept. 1982).

A rather interesting read, and something that I think should be read in it's entirety, I fear Leon's inside perspective of the Waffen SS is much like the illusionary life of Leon in the Budweiser commercials, sad, and misguided.

The whole Leon Degrelle essay.

Leon Degrelle Biography.

Actually there is quite a bit on "The Brown SS" in history given that it really only lasted for 1 year and as far as I'm aware never saw combat.
National Socialism was not against having non-Aryan alies - you have to remember they were also "alied" with the Japanese.
The difference between National Socialism and Communism was that they wanted to keep all the races separate - not exterminate them.
More ironic was their support of Jewish groups in the Palastinian uprisings against the British!

Your need real player to listen this

wfmu.org...


Or

wfmu.org...

[edit on 4-11-2004 by zop2]

There is still a link between some islamic groups and neo nazi's

www.adelaideinstitute.org...

www.danielpipes.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks for all the informative replies.

I heard that in India Hitler is sort of glorified in some history books, because supposedly the Germans were the only country that never tried to enslave India or take it over, and that they were going to a support a revolt against the British establishment there...

All in all I think theres alot of stuff in history that needs to be ousted, so that the public can recieve all the info' and make up their own minds, not what the establishment has deemed appropriate for disclosure.

Wow, never heard of Islamic Nazis. I thought Hitler was racially superior, saying the White race was the master race0.

Originally posted by BurningAces
Wow, never heard of Islamic Nazis. I thought Hitler was racially superior, saying the White race was the master race0.

As far as I can see, this topic is about the "other side" of history. This is not the version that has been written by the winners. This is about facts, not propaganda. What we learned in school is far from the truth. Nazism was (is) not equal to racism, inhumanity and holocaust. It's far more complicated. This is why Nazism can be called some kind of religion.
You know what's ironic? Read the Talmud + the Old Testament. And think again about racism and the 'evil' Nazism.

Originally posted by Deimoss
You know what's ironic? Read the Talmud + the Old Testament. And think again about racism and the 'evil' Nazism.

I'd heard something that I'm sure is related to what you're trying to say... Supposedly it says in the Talmud that the Jewish race is the "master race," and that all others are lesser beings. In history class we were told that in the Waffen-SS, 'Aryan' men could only marry 'Aryan' women, kind of like how Jewish woman can only mary Jewish men, or is it the other way around?

I don't know, I'm sure theres someone out there who knows more about the Talmud than I do, so could someone please clarify/ do-away with this stuff?

[edit on 6-11-2004 by Weise]

Originally posted by Weise
I'd heard something that I'm sure is related to what you're trying to say... Supposedly it says in the Talmud that the Jewish race is the "master race," and that all others are lesser beings...
[edit on 6-11-2004 by Weise]

Exactly. I've read the Hungarian translation of Talmud. The translation can't really be attacked because three different courts certified it. The most part of the book is about the daily life of Talmudist Jews and their habits. But there are tons of phrases about their 'ultimate supremacy' above the 'goyish'. Who are like animals (donkeys if I'm correct). Visions about a world is set on fire by them and their god... There are also many 'delicious' parts in the OT (GWBs favorite). But Jews are just victims of a cruel world...

Originally posted by Deimoss


This is about facts, not propaganda. What we learned in school is far from the truth. Nazism was (is) not equal to racism, inhumanity and holocaust.

The National Socialism under discussion in this thread is the type practiced by Germany prior to and during the 2nd World War. There is absolutely no doubt that this political system was racist and inhumane.
Within the pages of Mein Kampf, Hitler espouses the superiority of the white "Aryan" race and all others are classified as "untermensch".
You only have to look at the systems of racial policy put in place within organisations such as Kraft Durch Freude, Hitler Jugend and some sections of the SS to see how Hitler was in favour of a white super-race.

As for the Arab SS referred to in this topic, it should be remembered that the SS was not the totally blue-eyed blonde beast machine that it is often portrayed as being. The Waffen SS was the equivalent of an elite army corps and the restrictions on race, colour or ethnic makeup were not as stringent as in other SS divisions. Their duty and their purpose was first and foremost as soldiers and any man who was able to soldier well was able to gain entry. When most people think of the SS they tend to think of the Todt battalions or the Hitler Bodyguard which were selective in their racial makeup. The Waffen SS was different though and I have met British Army veterans who have fought them and who had a lot of respect for them as an enemy.

It should also be remembered that the Arabs were not the only non-German people to be incorporated into an indigenous SS. There was a British SS serving in the German Army during the 2nd World War (1944) known as The British Free Corps - it never operated in combat as a unit though. There were also Swedish, Dutch, Dane, Croat and Belgian units amongst others.

Originally posted by Leveller
This is about facts, not propaganda. What we learned in school is far from the truth. Nazism was (is) not equal to racism, inhumanity and holocaust.
..There is absolutely no doubt that this political system was racist and inhumane.
Within the pages of Mein Kampf, Hitler espouses the superiority of the white "Aryan" race and all others are classified as "untermensch".
You only have to look at the systems of racial policy put in place within organisations such as Kraft Durch Freude, Hitler Jugend and some sections of the SS to see how Hitler was in favour of a white super-race.

I said it's not equal to... I don't say racism was not the part of Nazism. Of course it was. But this racism is not about "I kill all non-white" (like people think in general). Inhumanity... A-bomb wasn't inhumane? Conc.camps for 'Japs' wasn't inhumane? Talmud is not inhumane? Behavoiur of US soldiers in Iraq (prisons) isn't inhumane? What about Vietnam? And so on.
Every regime has it's 'inhumanity'. We could call our present from of governments inhumane because for example there are plenty of people without jobs and without money to live. In wwII Germany, this problem did not exist for German people. Inhumanity is relative.

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Deimoss


This is about facts, not propaganda. What we learned in school is far from the truth. Nazism was (is) not equal to racism, inhumanity and holocaust.

The National Socialism under discussion in this thread is the type practiced by Germany prior to and during the 2nd World War. There is absolutely no doubt that this political system was racist and inhumane.
Within the pages of Mein Kampf, Hitler espouses the superiority of the white "Aryan" race and all others are classified as "untermensch".
You only have to look at the systems of racial policy put in place within organisations such as Kraft Durch Freude, Hitler Jugend and some sections of the SS to see how Hitler was in favour of a white super-race.

As for the Arab SS referred to in this topic, it should be remembered that the SS was not the totally blue-eyed blonde beast machine that it is often portrayed as being. The Waffen SS was the equivalent of an elite army corps and the restrictions on race, colour or ethnic makeup were not as stringent as in other SS divisions. Their duty and their purpose was first and foremost as soldiers and any man who was able to soldier well was able to gain entry. When most people think of the SS they tend to think of the Todt battalions or the Hitler Bodyguard which were selective in their racial makeup. The Waffen SS was different though and I have met British Army veterans who have fought them and who had a lot of respect for them as an enemy.

It should also be remembered that the Arabs were not the only non-German people to be incorporated into an indigenous SS. There was a British SS serving in the German Army during the 2nd World War (1944) known as The British Free Corps - it never operated in combat as a unit though. There were also Swedish, Dutch, Dane, Croat and Belgian units amongst others.

Charlamagne=French Waffen-ss
Nordland=Scandanavian Waffen-SS
Both amongst the most feared divisions during WW2. Along with the Russian Liberation Army, who many agree was one of the most brutal fighting forces during the war.

Gentlemen:

Inhumanity is inhumanity. When a group/political system/faction is called out on it, it is NOT to the exclusion of the inhumanity perpetrated by others.

Good site about foreigners fighting in SS. There were even some from India:
www.feldgrau.com...

I've also heard rumors that there were africans in some wehrmacht units. The worse the war went the less skin color and other factors affected recruitment. Basically nazis were very much racists.

Few foreigners however effected the war so much that they'd get any mention since there were so much huge battles and such to fill all the history books.