It's not wrong being affected by illusions.

I talk out of experience, I want you to remain having a good feeling unconditional of your circumstance/experience. That is also what supposed meditation should make aware. That is that you may feel good within, a healthy sense of self, unconditinional of the circumstance you are in. This is caused by your sense of self.

This can be broken down, it is sad. Structurize it again. It is better to have this structure, this set of awareness.
It has a positive effect, a stimulation to further growth. That is always what is needed to be built before one can proceed. There will be no progress made without.

You need true friends to balance this out, I think. To have the acceptance of others to proceed, that is then, also to have confidence. It's a need. Achieve it. Be yourself.

Feeling you are wrong because you've been told you live in illusions and you somehow started to think this is true shouldn't make you feel less worth of life. There exists a force that can enter you making you overcome all illusions in an instant, permanent. I mean, it should not 'bring you down', as people say it that way. When people judge you because of it, if they only have a sense of sense, they should apologise and make things clear.

'Enlightenment' based on the bringing down of others is destructive to the person bringing people down to. Life balances things out by itself in fact, but when people get stubborn it is a shame, but even then one will be shown truth so one has not to worry.

I myself have been confused, so what I say can be because of confusion, making me feel there is truth to it. But when I share my experiences I make it able for others to give guidance. Always let the flow between people active. Life is not just one who needs to be listened to. It is about sharing/caring. Jesus was like that too.

He said, those who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Xx

I know your fear of loss
And your struggles with faith
And how it takes everything that you have to face the day
The virtues you possess now bring you eternal pain
All you have is contempt for a life you can't obtain
All your heroes have failed you
Yet you try and prevail
Face your torment and dismantle your doubt
Refuse this legacy of shame and deceit
Cause the only real truth in your life that you know is hostility
Your world is coming apart
Remain steadfast
Perseverance
Against all opposition
Crushing all limitations
Pure strength through solitude
Discipline and determination
You can't accept what you've been told
Anchored in sin you must reverse your descent
Declare the weight of the world has yet to claim you
And admit that your faults will not restrain you
Glimpses of fate bring light to your despair
Realise hope isn't short of your grasp
Resurrect every dream that you've buried alive
And never succumb to the war that you fight in your heart
Your world is coming apart
Remain steadfast
Perseverance
Against all opposition
Crushing all limitations
Pure strength through solitude
Discipline and determination

reply to post by Angle

Enlightenment is not about bringing others down. Enlightenment is a purely personal process. It is not possible to enlighten others, only oneself, though others may act as teachers and examples from time to time.

Growing up is in large part the process of outgrowing one's illusions. Enlightenment is just growing all the way up.

It was never supposed to be easy or pleasant. It is not meant to make people happy. These are among the illusions a person seeking enlightenment must outgrow. The reward of enlightenment is merely to see things as they are, to value them appropriately, and therefore to act effectively.

Clinging to illusions may stave off approaching realisation for some time, but if you are aware that you are clinging, the trick doesn't work. Conflict and anxiety arise and destroy the happiness one seeks to preserve.

Thnk y, Astyanax

Originally posted by Angle

Feeling you are wrong because you've been told you live in illusions and you somehow started to think this is true shouldn't make you feel less worth of life.

Well, you are right and wrong at the same time, I think. It is true that you should maybe stick with whatever makes you happy.

But on the other hand, I think we should value the truth above anything else. And I do not really see the point in hanging on to nice fantasies, simply because they comfort you.

But in the end, everybody has to judge for themselves what they want to believe in.

reply to post by Nightaudit


Believe only what deserves belief.

reply to post by Angle


Exactly! The problem is that this is a very subjective call. The only objective way to determine that is the scientific method.

And IF we want to go into the supernatural world then which path to follow? There are so many different ways to "enlightenment" that I personally wouldn´t know which author to believe.

reply to post by Nightaudit


I think the way to enlightenment differs from people because of their personality. There may be similarities in eachothers way, but what is the 'profession' of an enlightened one? prophets, healers, teachers or can we be all that at the same time?

Enlightened or not depends on the approach one has towards people. I think, one can have hightened awareness but can choose not to act corresponding to it. Or what is enlightenment?

People should seek.

In being affected by illusions lies the opportunity to become not so.

reply to post by Angle


Ok, I am with you so far. Only that I do not really accept that there is a state of enlightenment. I think we will learn until the day we die. I will never be able to say "well I reached my enlightenment on February 12th, and after that all was just fine."

That will not happen. What is enlightenment exactly in your opinion? So many have claimed it, nobody could actually do something with it.

I would say IF you want to achieve something in life, then it is the ability to be open to concepts without loosing your ground in reality.

reply to post by Nightaudit


Enlightenment is having been able to put your focus on the above below. From enlightenment comes the realisation only this is salvation.

All life does is making you lose all illusions. Go with the flow, life is easy, life is simple.

Realise the thing called 'trust in yourself'.

That which brings salvation has no beginning and no end, yet makes of itself the first and last thing. Be the middle road.

reply to post by Angle

Enlightenment is having been able to put your focus on the above below.

Could you please give an example of this?

From enlightenment comes the realisation only this is salvation.

Salvation from what?

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Angle

 

Enlightenment is having been able to put your focus on the above below.

Could you please give an example of this?

When one was able to do so one experiences his state of awareness. To give examples would be giving names of persons. I don't know.

Originally posted by Astyanax

From enlightenment comes the realisation only this is salvation.

Salvation from what?

From illusions.

Originally posted by Angle
reply to post by Nightaudit

 

Enlightenment is having been able to put your focus on the above below.

I do not mean to disrespect you, but you just said gibberish and nothing more.

I know it sounds fancy and like full of wisdom to you. But you could just as well exclaimed that you love cookies. It would have had the same value.

reply to post by Angle


Lol, I am sorry but all you do is throw around new-agey quotes without any real meaning to them.

I know that you can´t really see that right now. And I am not really saying that these nice and very general and fluffy quotes are wrong per se. They are just not very right as well.

Is this gibberish to you?

"With his mind free from the inflow of thoughts and from restlessness, by
abandoning both good and evil, an alert man knows no fear.

reply to post by Angle

I wasn't asking for an example of a person who has achieved enlightenment. I asked for a practical example of what you mean by 'putting your focus on the above below'. What do those words mean, and how is it done?

Also, it is tautological to say that enlightenment is salvation from illusions. Enlightenment means something like 'understanding', so obviously it implies an absence of illusions. Are you saying that enlightenment is just information?