The Ego hates Jesus because he taught what The Ego hates most REPENTANCE!

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Here ya go, you seem to be struggling:

I'm not "struggling" as you have suggested.
I got my definition from the same page that you linked to.

You seem to not struggle with cherry picking, by using the abridged version that leaves off the part that says "literally", meaning if you were to ignore the normal definition, and do like you suggest, to look at where the word originated from, and see how it was constructed.

On that same page, if you look to the right margin, it lists the 22 occurrences of the word in the New Testament.
Every one of those is translated as "repentance", and not 'changing your mind'.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Save the pithy ad him attacks, you're trying to illicit an emotional response by trolling/flaming.

You are the one who chooses to have "I hate Religion" as a signature.
I'm just pointing out that if you were to click on it, you get a video of the leader of the "Tough Guy Sinner" cult.

So repentance is sorrow or grief? Your verse you linked said grief PRODUCES repentance, it doesn't say it IS repentance.

Hello, I quoted a verse from the Bible!
It says a godly grief leads to repentance which leads to salvation.
Do you want me to quote the New Living version to make it simple?

For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.

The false dichotomy that you brought up earlier was your invention.
That I objected to part of your statement does not mean that I support the other option you offered.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Here ya go, you seem to be struggling:

I'm not "struggling" as you have suggested.
I got my definition from the same page that you linked to.

You seem to not struggle with cherry picking, by using the abridged version that leaves off the part that says "literally", meaning if you were to ignore the normal definition, and do like you suggest, to look at where the word originated from, and see how it was constructed.

On that same page, if you look to the right margin, it lists the 22 occurrences of the word in the New Testament.
Every one of those is translated as "repentance", and not 'changing your mind'.

Seems odd then that you'd breeze right past the definition right at the top of the page.


You explain then how a person could change their behavior or sins in a permanent way without ever changing their mind about how God sees that sin. Please explain how that occurs without a change of mind. Like example how a thief who is sorrowful that they were caught stealing, but never changed their mind about stealing being a sin. How would that thief go about not stealing again?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Save the pithy ad him attacks, you're trying to illicit an emotional response by trolling/flaming.

You are the one who chooses to have "I hate Religion" as a signature.
I'm just pointing out that if you were to click on it, you get a video of the leader of the "Tough Guy Sinner" cult.

So repentance is sorrow or grief? Your verse you linked said grief PRODUCES repentance, it doesn't say it IS repentance.

Hello, I quoted a verse from the Bible!
It says a godly grief leads to repentance which leads to salvation.
Do you want me to quote the New Living version to make it simple?

For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.

The false dichotomy that you brought up earlier was your invention.
That I objected to part of your statement does not mean that I support the other option you offered.

edit on 16-4-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

So what about my signature, I'm not the topic of this thread.

Do you understand the concept behind an ad him attack? Do you understand what that means?

If you don't you're ignorant of it and need to read up, if you do understand the concept and don't care then you're trolling/flaming.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Seems odd then that you'd breeze right past the definition right at the top of the page.

Are you kidding?
The one at the top is the simplest for people who want a short answer and go on their way.
You are arguing the most ridiculous nonsense, that somehow the most definitive answer is at the top of the page when it should be obvious that is not true.

You explain then how a person could change their behavior or sins in a . . .

I don't want to argue your cult philosophy.
What I am saying is that the Bible says, "repentance" in the English translation.
I reject your bogus claim that it means something else, as if the translation got it wrong.
It didn't, it means repentance, when it says that, and not something else like you are trying to make it out as.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Seems odd then that you'd breeze right past the definition right at the top of the page.

Are you kidding?
The one at the top is the simplest for people who want a short answer and go on their way.
You are arguing the most ridiculous nonsense, that somehow the most definitive answer is at the top of the page when it should be obvious that is not true.

No, I think you don't have a functioning comprehension of what "subjectively" and "by implication" means.

What do other NT Greek lexicons say for the verb Metanoia? Is it a mass conspiracy?

reply to post by jmdewey60


I said repentance means a change of mind. You rejected that. So you explain how a person's behavior would change in a permanent manner toward past sins with the first cause being a change of mind about said sin.

My point is I would like to see permanent liberation from sin instead of repeated sin/freedom cycles in a person's life.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So what about my signature, I'm not the topic of this thread.

You make it the topic every time you post on a thread, that you believe in salvation without repentance, that you can go on sinning, and no problem Jesus can just bleed a little bit more.

Do you understand the concept behind an ad him attack? Do you understand what that means?

I do, but I don't think that you do.
The fact that you belong to the "tough Guy Sinner" cult is relevant to the thread which is repentance, something you do not believe in.
You don't, because you pretend that it isn't a biblical teaching, and thinking that it is, is to you a big mistake.

If you don't you're ignorant of it and need to read up, if you do understand the concept and don't care then you're trolling/flaming.

Pointing out your signature is not "flaming". Are you kidding?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So what about my signature, I'm not the topic of this thread.

You make it the topic every time you post on a thread, that you believe in salvation without repentance, that you can go on sinning, and no problem Jesus can just bleed a little bit more.

No I don't. You're a troll that feels the need often to shift the focus from the topic to another member personally. And I've never said there can be salvation without repentance, considering I'm arguing that repent means to change one's mind. Which means one used to not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and now they do.

Quit trolling, discuss the topic. I'm not the topic.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I said repentance means a change of mind. You rejected that.

In the hypothetical arcane world of Greek word origins but we are not dealing with that, what is important is how the Bible understands it.

I'm not interested in arguing your cult philosophy of being a "saved" sinner.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . . I think you don't have a functioning comprehension of what "subjectively" and "by implication" means.

I think you had better explain it right now.

What do other NT Greek lexicons say for the verb Metanoia? Is it a mass conspiracy?

Metanoia, according to Frederick William Danker, in The Concise Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, in all its uses in the NT, it means, repentance.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Which means one used to not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and now they do.

Can you quote those verses that use repentance in that way?

reply to post by jmdewey60


"So you explain how a person's behavior would change in a permanent manner toward past sins with the first cause being a change of mind about said sin."

reply to post by NOTurTypical

"So you explain how a person's . . .

That's a weird sentence that for some reason you put quotation marks around.
Can you answer what I asked, which was just to explain your earlier remarks.
1) what "subjectively" means in a definition.
2) what New Testament verses use repentance to mean believing in Jesus, as opposed to before repentance nor believing in Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

"So you explain how a person's . . .

That's a weird sentence that for some reason you put quotation marks around.
Can you answer what I asked, which was just to explain your earlier remarks.
1) what "subjectively" means in a definition.
2) what New Testament verses use repentance to mean believing in Jesus, as opposed to before repentance nor believing in Jesus.

So I'm here to answer your questions without you addressing mine asked previously? That's not how dialogue works Dewey.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So I'm here to answer your questions without you addressing mine asked previously? That's not how dialogue works Dewey.

My "questions" are not questions so much as requests to flesh out your earlier outlandish claims.
I did not agree to enter in some philosophical debate over your cult beliefs in salvation for the unrepentant sinner.

What I did engage in was a discussion of if repentance is even in the Bible.
According to you, it isn't, and that word only appears by mistake, when the authors of the New Testament really meant something else.
That is your side of the 'discussion'.
My side is that when it says repentance in the English translation, it means, repentance, in the normal sense of the word, in English.
Now if you have support for your claim, let's have it, if you want to spread your hellish philosophy, keep it.

Luckily, at least for me, and I will say why, in a second, the word, repentance shows up in Romans, in verse 2:4, to be specific.
There is a very authoritative book out on Paul's theology, that I refer to whenever possible to solve some of these sticky problems in Paul's writings. It is, Romans: A Commentary (Hermeneia: A Critical & Historical Commentary on the Bible) by Robert Jewett.
Let me quote a few words that he writes in that book on the verse just mentioned:

". . . using the word "repentance" that refers in the LXX, intertestamental literature, and early Christianity to conversion as a matter of turning away from sin and toward God, . . . "

This is not cult philosophy but dead-on mainstream Christian academic biblical research, by the one person who today is regarded in this academic world of biblical studies, as the foremost living expert on the Book of Romans.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Where have I ever talked about salvation for an unrepentant sinner??

Now you're making things up entirely. Here is what I ACTUALLY said on the matter:

And the object is to have a lasting change in lifestyle instead of a person going through sin cycles because they never changed their mind about their sin. The point is to have permanent results, not cyclical results.

How on Earth can you mangle and twist me saying I'm advocating a permanent change in lifestyle from the old sin nature to freedom from sin and cyclical sin to advocating "unrepentant sinning"??

If you're deliberately misrepresenting what someone clearly says you ARE trolling.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

How on Earth can you mangle and twist me saying . . .

Take a poll and see if anyone else understands what you said.
It makes no sense to me.
What I understood from what you said earlier is that what matters is if you change your mind about believing in Jesus.
Are you now talking about something "permanent"?
I have to imagine you mean something about the rapture, which is postponing conversion to when you get to wherever it is you end up at after the rapture.

reply to post by jmdewey60


No, I've said this numerous times, virtually every time you attack me. Why not a 20th time, I'll break it down so it's easier to follow:

1. Metanoia, a change of mind (initially) MANIFESTS itself at maturity as a change of lifestyle. A permanent change of lifestyle.
2. The point of which is to give freedom from the bondage of sin and sin cycles.
3. People who try to alter their behavior who never first change their thinking about that sin are doomed to go through periods of repeating it. That's called "behavior modification" exercises.
4. I repeat, the object is to be free from the sin permanently, not free from it for periods of time.


Now explain how my position is advocating "salvation for unrepentant sinners".