Pianist Sentenced For Insulting Islam

reply to post by skalla


Justifying Sharia in Britain

And, it was these complaints along with British activists who ran the campaign called ‘One Law For All’, that lead Baroness Caroline Cox to introduce The Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill in the House of Lords on 7 June 2011.
The Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill in the House of Lords on 7 June 2011. The bill, which is up for debate on 19 October 2012, is aimed at ensuring that Sharia courts operate within the realms of British law. Islamic scholars are noted for claiming they have legal powers under Sharia law.

You're right. Pure rubbish. In another ten years it'll be trash. In forty, it will rule Britain, but that's garbage, right?

reply to post by ihavenoaccount

You can try to pick apart his argument as much as you wish, but it doesn't hide the fact that this is blatant religious oppression. You don't actually condone what's happened here, do you?

You don't actually condone the arrests of people who question the holocaust, do you? I mean, what about their freedom of expression? That was the main issue presented in the OP. Some European countries even have laws against expressing disbelief in the holocaust. But for some reason, the so called champions of "freedom of expression" are silent on that one... I wonder why that is.

"Be a Roman while in Rome" applies in this case. If you are in a state that has rules regarding how far "freedom of expression" can be stretched, then you abide by it.

reply to post by jiggerj

You've taken a surprising position, but I'm glad to see it. I'm heartened by your statement:

Wow. I know religion is stupid and evil, but this is a new low even for stupid and evil.

I take this to mean that there is a point, somewhere, where people should declare "Enough, this is too stupid and evil for even a tolerant person to accept." Yet, look through the thread and you'll find many accepting it and even criticizing you over it.

Will someone please tell me how mankind can still be so brainwashed and ignorant in the 21st century?

It's a lot easier to understand when you remember that some are not in the 21st century.

Some brief thoughts.

What would have happened to him if he had not been world renowned?

"Each believer will receive two women?" Has the sequester caught them? I thought it was 72.

In Turkey you can't say anything that will offend, or condescend to, people? What in the world do they talk about?

There's wine in Heaven, but it's sinful on Earth?

I hope the time will come when the people (whatever that means) cry "Stop it, you've gone beyond stupid."

reply to post by jiggerj


from your own link:

They have no formally recognised powers and therefore cannot impose legally binding penalties. However, it is estimated that thousands of UK residents use Sharia courts each year, and they voluntarily accept the rulings – mostly about family matters.

just like i said.

to blather on about how it's going to take over is doing nothing but living in fear.

Originally posted by jiggerj
I love you guys, but I have to say that some of you really need to WAKE UP! There has been a 74% increase in Mosques in the United States over the last ten years. This brings the total to 2016. Mosques in America

If you say that's not a lot, just think of what Islam is doing in other parts of the world. In Britain, there are about 1500 mosques. In certain areas the government has allowed Sharia law to take precedence over British law. So, the take over is already starting there. It WILL happen here in the U.S. within the next fifty years. It WILL!

Please PLEASE start watching Pat Condell's youtube clips. I agree with everything the man says. He has 106 clips of about 7 minutes each and they hit the truth hard.

You don't need to click on these links. I just want you to look at the headlines:

majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/

themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/norway-90-of-all-violent-rapes-in-oslo-committed-by-muslims/

fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html (this includes Norway)

tundratabloids.com/2013/01/muslims-try-to-affect-rape-statistics-in-india-deny-women-a-cell-phone.html

Do I really need to add links about honor killings and people being sent to prison for speaking out against Islam?

Some try to say it's not a Muslim thing, it's a cultural thing. Yet, there are Christian and Jewish families living in some of these backward nations and they aren't raping or killing anyone. It's NOT cultural, it's religious!

what are you actually objecting to? Increase in masjids?
So if muslims pray on streets, its a problem, if muslims build masjids, its again a grain in your eye.
What happened to freedom of religion?
If you are given power in government, will you make it illegal to be a practicing muslim?

I watched the video and i understand the concern of the guy but cannot ignore his extreme ignorance.

The other links talk about crimes committed by muslims not encouraged by Islam. The immigrants who do that are actually trying to adopt the western lifestyle of drinking and sleeping around and not yet learnt their limits. It is as unislamic as god in atheism.
The safest countries for women are islamic and the worst are western and pseudo-islamic areas who are adopting western lifestyle.
I am not defending any of those disgusting idiots, just saying that if a man who never saw an uncovered arm of a girl in his life suddenly sees girls in mini skirts and tiny tops, he is bound to go crazy!!
If he had followed islam and looked at the ground and passed respectfully then he would have shown what a muslim truely means.

ALL religion should be banned form
state/gov and society ASAP...
Before it destroys it...

Religion, Beliefe, Faith whatever you call it
is PERSONAL and shouldnt be allowed to
govern ANYTHING.

reply to post by logical7

What happened to freedom of religion? If you are given power in government, will you make it illegal to be a practicing muslim?

YES YES YES! I would make it so that Islam is not recognized as a religion. This way we can refuse the members of this sick organization from entering our country.

Religion should be all-positive, uplifting, and never ever negative. Any text with violence of ANY kind should not be acceptable as a foundation for a religion. Even Christianity should be forced to rip out all the violence in the bible - which pretty much erases the Old Testament. Then, the bible should focus only on the teachings of Jesus, with the crucifixion deleted.

When you walk into any church you should see this:


But NOT this bloody, gruesome image!

Freedom of Speech should give no one the option of insulting others without consequences, as these were one´s thoughts.

There is difference between insulting and critisizing. Even critics can do their work without insulting people. It is possible and everybody should be taught the basics of giving feedback. Even negative feedback can be told so that nobody feels bad afterwards. Insulting should not be tolerated.

This punishment may have been a bit harsh. Probably a formal reprinder with a fine would have served better, although overally I agree that such actions should be punished.

reply to post by jiggerj

Religion should be all-positive, uplifting, and never ever negative. Any text with violence of ANY kind should not be acceptable as a foundation for a religion.

Jiggerj, i don't know if you have ever read Qur'an(not single standalone verses).
Qur'an does not advocate aggression.
Qur'an also teaches not to tolerate oppression.

More than 2.5 million people have died in wars justified by 9/11.
How many of them were terrorists??

They were my brothers and sisters in faith.
What will you feel about a country who killed 2.5million of your fellow americans??
Who do you think is suffering more in the present world, americans sitting safely in their homes or muslim families living in fear when drones fly overhead.

You did not do anything to choose to be born as american, what would be your point of view if you were born in afghanistan and watched your country occupied by foreigners?

Brainwashing is not just done by religion, its also done by american government using MSM.
I am amazed at the gulibility of americans(except a minority)

At airports they even peak at places where the sun doesnt shine in the name of security and destroy the dignity of a human being.
Who is doing this? Islam?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."-Benjamin Franklin.

You are concerned about freedom of expression in Turkey? Why not look closer to home and worry about protecting kids from cavity searches first.

If you just dislike Islam because its different then you are intolerant. If you dislike it because of what you have been spoon fed then its high time to grow up and first read about it unbiasedly before giving opinions.

reply to post by logical7


Sadly what you suggest just does not fit in with the programmed prejudices that so many readily accept.

why find out for yourself when you can rely on a hatchet job from tinterwebs?

i'd like the op to admit he was wrong over sharia in the uk, but he seems to have gone pretty quiet on that since his own link contradicted his statement

seems that a lot of folk in the west want to cast other countries in as bad a light as possible while brushing their own nation's mess under the carpet. i guess it assuages the guilt over what their governments and armies do in other nations as their sense of patriotism makes their brains twitch when they try reconcile these factors.

Would any ATS user take an offence if someone opened a thread titled :

“I am not sure if you have noticed, but where there is a louse, a non-entity, a lowlife, thief or fool, they are all ATS'ers.”

?

I am not offended by Fazil Say's comments and I would not file an affidavit to press charges under the article 216 of Turkish Criminal Code .

Nevertheless , I know lots of Turks and/or Muslims who would object to being painted as thief , fool , lowlife and a non-entity and subsequently they would be offended .

reply to post by skalla


what people think does not matter, the ones who believe in justice will benefit and ones who don't will have a fitting end. If they do wrongs or tolerate/ignore wrongs being done to others, ultimately they will become the victims too.

Nothing is more funny than people with brains being slaves of MSM, eating what they are told, loving and hating what the MSM and government orders them to and yet believing themselves to be free rational humans concerned about sending the their pink fluffy freedom and liberty to every country and even using force if the idiots resist!
I heard an american soldier in afganistan angrily says, "why don't these people get that we are here to help them"
the poor soldier must have really believed it, i wondered how betrayed he would have felt if he was told to fight for his country and later realised it was all for profit and a game of the super rich and he is just an expendable little pawn!

Originally posted by 23432

Would any ATS user take an offence if someone opened a thread titled :

“I am not sure if you have noticed, but where there is a louse, a non-entity, a lowlife, thief or fool, they are all ATS'ers.”

?

I am not offended by Fazil Say's comments and I would not file an affidavit to press charges under the article 216 of Turkish Criminal Code .

Nevertheless , I know lots of Turks and/or Muslims who would object to being painted as thief , fool , lowlife and a non-entity and subsequently they would be offended .

And those who are are very emotionally immature. Heck, we teach our children that. A person can either brush off insults and go about their day, or they can freak out, get pissed off and have their feeling hurt. Remember, no one can "make you mad", you either choose that emotion or not on your own.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by 23432

Would any ATS user take an offence if someone opened a thread titled :

“I am not sure if you have noticed, but where there is a louse, a non-entity, a lowlife, thief or fool, they are all ATS'ers.”

?

I am not offended by Fazil Say's comments and I would not file an affidavit to press charges under the article 216 of Turkish Criminal Code .

Nevertheless , I know lots of Turks and/or Muslims who would object to being painted as thief , fool , lowlife and a non-entity and subsequently they would be offended .

And those who are are very emotionally immature. Heck, we teach our children that. A person can either brush off insults and go about their day, or they can freak out, get pissed off and have their feeling hurt. Remember, no one can "make you mad", you either choose that emotion or not on your own.

edit on 17-4-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

This is what some people teach children :

Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me).

vs

This is what other people teach children :

Bıçak yarası geçer, dil yarası geçmez.

transl: A wound inflicted by a knife will heal; but one that words inflict (tongue inflicts) never heals. equiv: Words cut more (deeper) than swords [the sharpest sword (knife, blade)].


Turks can be very emotional people indeed .
The real issue here is the Criminal Code 216 and it's application in the hands of those who feel insulted .
No one likes to be likened to a low life , fool , thief etc etc .
Clear conflict of the Letter of the Law against the Spirit of the Law ; that is what you have in this silly but legal & lawfull case .
Turks are in the process of writing a new constitution at the moment . I am sure remedy will be forthcoming for Mr Fazil Say who happens to be one of my favorite musicians .

There are many so called Islamists are out there who are innocent of the these terrible claims that they are thieves , lowlifes , etc etc .

These people are genuinely offended by these claims and an affidavit to this effect has been filed by an individual human being .


Sum it up ; An atheist Turk calls muslim Turks lowlife criminals . Some muslim Turks take offence at being called as such .

Irony here is that Mr Fazil Say was talking about those who actually deserved to be called out because they are the type that will change with regime and will become whatever the regime wants them to be i.e militarist , leftist , islamist etc etc .

Talk about putting your foot in your own mouth .

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
You don't actually condone the arrests of people who question the holocaust, do you? I mean, what about their freedom of expression? That was the main issue presented in the OP. Some European countries even have laws against expressing disbelief in the holocaust. But for some reason, the so called champions of "freedom of expression" are silent on that one... I wonder why that is.

"Be a Roman while in Rome" applies in this case. If you are in a state that has rules regarding how far "freedom of expression" can be stretched, then you abide by it.

No, I actually don't condone arrests for those kinds of people. They are delusional, yes, but the policy itself is almost as absurd. It does nothing but make them look even more credible to their peers and supporters.

You haven't answered my question directly, though. I don't want to get the wrong idea on your position here. Seriously.

reply to post by skalla

i'd like the op to admit he was wrong over sharia in the uk, but he seems to have gone pretty quiet on that since his own link contradicted his statement

LOL Yeah, I went quiet, or rather, I went to work! lol I am not wrong about Sharia laws slowly sneaking their way into freedom loving countries. I am not wrong about Muslims growing in population so that they will one day be a majority and end up beating us from within. I am not wrong about Muslims screaming for their new countries to respect their ways instead of these people respecting the ways and laws of the people already there.

Islam is an insane infection that will one day destroy the world. Christianity may be stupid, but at least they don't kill anyone over a cartoon.

reply to post by jiggerj


your statement about there being areas in the uk where sharia law is allowed by the government to take precedence over british law was entirely untrue - this disinfo spreads around the net and you should not perpetuate it, however you feel about islam. i'm sure that you can find enough to criticise about it or discuss with out resorting to spreading bull.
as for being outbred by muslims, immigrant populations initially retain the birth rate of their parent countries and within a couple of generations this settles to the level of the nation they are settled in.... as a kid in the 70's indian and pakistani immigrant families (i went to school in the multicultural west midlands at the time) often had five or six kids, fewer in the eighties, and it's pretty average now. you may well hate radical islam, fairplay, but you really are falling for scare stories.
i gotta point out another contradiction in your approach - you suggest that those in the uk should use a uk mediator (you can be brown, muslim and british, really.. you do realise this?) on the basis of tacit agreement to national law yet you dont think this applies to someone born in a country accepting the laws of the land (such as the turkish musician)? you dont think it's ok for a muslim to use a mediator from their own faith but it doent seem to bother you if a catholic couple use a priest to mediate a dispute for example (this happens all the time btw)?
also, given the history of what you could get thrown in jail for in turkey (which i mentioned earlier), doesnt the problem in the case of the OP seem to be strict elements of turkish culture (viewed as a westener) and their love of banging folk up, rather than something particularly islamic? remember, you could get jailed in secular turkey for insulting the memory of the founder of the modern nation, or defacing or destroying a stamp or piece of currency.

reply to post by skalla

your statement about there being areas in the uk where sharia law is allowed by the government to take precedence over british law was entirely untrue

Sharia In Britain legally Binding

Islamic sharia law courts in Britain are exploiting a little-known legal clause to make their verdicts officially binding under UK law in cases including divorce, financial disputes and even domestic violence.

A new network of courts in five major cities is hearing cases where Muslims involved agree to be bound by traditional sharia law, and under the 1996 Arbitration Act the court's decisions [b]*****can then be enforced by the county courts or the High Court.*****

Okay? Will you now stop arguing for the sake of arguing?

reply to post by jiggerj

I am not wrong about Muslims growing in population so that they will one day be a majority and end up beating us from within.

Is it a muslim problem that people in West are prefering lesser and lesser children?
So less that they 'NEED' to bring part of the workforce from outside(especially for low paying jobs)
Its not some charity on immigrants to let them in. Its a mutually beneficial thing.

The immigrants are coming from the countries America is bombing, stop that and they wouldn't need to escape war zones.

You occupy their lands without right and frown on immigration that is legally allowed and needed to sustain your economy?

What about americans converting to Islam? How you plan to 'neutralize' them?
Will you restrict their freedom of religion and freedom of 'expression' if they want to talk like a muslim and look like a muslim?
Isn't that ironic for your OP? Or freedom of expression according to you is freedom to insult Islam but if someone praises Islam in america he/she should be investigated and/or institutionalised??

come on Jiggerj!!
Can you tell me the meaning of the word 'hypocrite'.

reply to post by logical7

Please allow me to intrude.

I'm certainly glad you asked jiggerj for the definition of "hypocrite." That's what you should do when you don't know the meaning of a word. I would have thought you knew what it meant, it certainly doesn't apply to jiggerj. Here, let me help you:

1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

www.merriam-webster.com...

a person who pretends to have moral standards or opinions that they do not actually have

oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com...
You weren't referring to yourself, were you? Anyway, I'm glad I could help. Come back any time you need more information.

Here's another word for you to learn: "strawman" as in strawman fallacy.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

www.nizkor.org...
Some examples of that include:

What about americans converting to Islam? How you plan to 'neutralize' them?

Will you restrict their freedom of religion and freedom of 'expression' if they want to talk like a muslim and look like a muslim?

Or freedom of expression according to you is freedom to insult Islam but if someone praises Islam in america he/she should be investigated and/or institutionalised??

Again, anytime we can be of assistance. America is a large and friendly nation. You'll easily find someone to help you.