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Breaking Free from the Occult – For those with eyes that see

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posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 04:31 AM
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g 1986 August 22, pp. 11-13.


What is that? A book, magazine, newspaper? Has his story been vetted? Does another person verify it? Any proof whatsoever?




posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by Carreau
g 1986 August 22, pp. 11-13.


What is that? A book, magazine, newspaper? Has his story been vetted? Does another person verify it? Any proof whatsoever?


Sorry. g stands for Awake! It is a periodical published at that time semi-monthly by Jehovah's Witnesses. And yes everything that is published by the Watchtower Society is heavily vetted, and verified. Here is a quote about how things are published in our articles:

*** yb11 p. 10 Highlights of the Past Year ***


The Writing Department itself has a comprehensive library with thousands of books. Additionally, our researchers make use of nearby public and academic libraries. They can also obtain specialized material from other sources by means of interlibrary loans. One of the large university libraries that our researchers use has some five million books, 58,000 periodicals, 5.4 million microforms, and thousands of electronic databases. The Writing Department also maintains a large archive of clippings, experiences, and historical information that is constantly being updated with material from local sources as well as from our branch offices around the world....

Sometimes even minor statements require additional research to confirm their accuracy. For instance, a brother may say in his life story that he was born in Czechoslovakia in 1915. But Czechoslovakia did not come into existence until 1918. So, where was he born? Settling the question might require examining old maps or historical records.

Then, too, a brother may state in his experience that he was baptized in San Francisco on a specific date. Careful scrutiny, however, might reveal that there was no convention or assembly on that date in that city. How can such a discrepancy be reconciled? Individual memories can at times be fragile. While the brother would probably not get confused about the place of his baptism, he might not accurately recall the date of the event. It is usually possible to confirm the accuracy of details by cross-checking various sources of information.
In summary, the Writing Department insists on using only material that is accurate and truthful, even regarding seemingly insignificant details. As a result, “the faithful and discreet slave” can consistently supply spiritual food that brings honor to “the God of truth,” Jehovah.—Ps. 31:5.


Now you may find that information online. All of our publications from 2000 to current have been made available for the public in over 450 languages here:

www.jw.org...

And here:

wol.jw.org...


I have all publications from 1889 to present on my computer. But they are not available that far back officially. I used to have most of it in print format, but since I sold my my stuff and moved to a different country than the United States, I don't have the printed versions anymore. I have it all in electronic format. A lot of it in PDF as well.

Just an interesting tidbit of information, over the past 10 years we have published over 20,000,000,000 (billion) pieces of Bible literature in 595 languages.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:03 AM
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Your only source is a satanic panic scare piece from the mid 80's that was published by your religion and is out of print. No third party verification, no collaborating witnesses, and no physical evidence, but I'm a slanderer. Got it.

Yeah I'm going to stick with Gordon is a liar.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 


Eyes that see see Christianity as another branch of the occult. Who represent Osiris as Jesus. And Amun as God.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by Carreau
Your only source is a satanic panic scare piece from the mid 80's that was published by your religion and is out of print. No third party verification, no collaborating witnesses, and no physical evidence, but I'm a slanderer. Got it.

Yeah I'm going to stick with Gordon is a liar.


Yeah, I guess you can call yourself that. I think this scripture applies most aptly to your statement:

(John 8:45, 46) . . .Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. 46 Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me?

I actually have dozens of other experiences, perhaps hundreds, dating from 1880's to present. So your idea that it was because of some mid 80's "satanic panic" holds no water.

If you have no proof it is a lie you shouldn't defame the person. It is considered slander. And it is unbecoming of anyone.
edit on 15-4-2013 by SubAce because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by Manunnaki
reply to post by SubAce
 


Eyes that see see Christianity as another branch of the occult. Who represent Osiris as Jesus. And Amun as God.


Actually that comment was predicted. That is why, if you'll notice in the OP those false demon-gods of Egypt are shown to be in direct opposition to Jehovah.
If you are able to see past your occult indoctrination perhaps you'll be able to see it. If not, then so be it.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 





I actually have dozens of other experiences, perhaps hundreds, dating from 1880's to present. So your idea that it was because of some mid 80's "satanic panic" holds no water. So far your batting 0. If you have no proof it is a lie you shouldn't defame the person. It is considered slander. And it is unbecoming of anyone.


If you have no proof you don't have dozens perhaps hundreds you have stories, ie nothing. The only person batting 0 is you, no links, no witnesses, no evidence, no nothing. The onus is on you sense you posted the made up story not for me to prove a negative. What truly is unbecoming is passing off fiction as fact and you as a member of this forum should know better.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:22 AM
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Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by SubAce
 





I actually have dozens of other experiences, perhaps hundreds, dating from 1880's to present. So your idea that it was because of some mid 80's "satanic panic" holds no water. So far your batting 0. If you have no proof it is a lie you shouldn't defame the person. It is considered slander. And it is unbecoming of anyone.


If you have no proof you don't have dozens perhaps hundreds you have stories, ie nothing. The only person batting 0 is you, no links, no witnesses, no evidence, no nothing. The onus is on you sense you posted the made up story not for me to prove a negative. What truly is unbecoming is passing off fiction as fact and you as a member of this forum should know better.


We seem to be in an argument now, and you are now accusing me of things that are not true. I will leave it be as I see nothing beneficial coming of this. Or can there be? Perhaps, can you give me at least one good reason why it is a lie? Can you give me one?



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by SubAce

Originally posted by Manunnaki
reply to post by SubAce
 


Eyes that see see Christianity as another branch of the occult. Who represent Osiris as Jesus. And Amun as God.


Actually that comment was predicted. That is why, if you'll notice in the OP those false demon-gods of Egypt are shown to be in direct opposition to Jehovah.
If you are able to see past your occult indoctrination perhaps you'll be able to see it. If not, then so be it.


That reply was predicted that's why mine will be. The only reason why jehovah had moses back is because the gods do not like to be mocked or used as a tool to do harm unto others who do not deserve it.

In this case moses had the blessings of the gods to free the slaves. So actually it was a shift of blessing from King to slave.

Thats what eyes that see can see.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by Manunnaki

Originally posted by SubAce

Originally posted by Manunnaki
reply to post by SubAce
 


Eyes that see see Christianity as another branch of the occult. Who represent Osiris as Jesus. And Amun as God.


Actually that comment was predicted. That is why, if you'll notice in the OP those false demon-gods of Egypt are shown to be in direct opposition to Jehovah.
If you are able to see past your occult indoctrination perhaps you'll be able to see it. If not, then so be it.


That reply was predicted that's why mine will be. The only reason why jehovah had moses back is because the gods do not like to be mocked or used as a tool to do harm unto others who do not deserve it.

In this case moses had the blessings of the gods to free the slaves. So actually it was a shift of blessing from King to slave.

Thats what eyes that see can see.


So all those gods fought against themselves and proved themselves worthless against Jehovah because they approved of Moses?

Do you realize how illogical that is.

I think Jesus' reasoning makes much more sense:

(Matthew 12:29, 30) . . .Or how can anyone invade the house of a strong man and seize his movable goods, unless first he binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30 He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters.

Yes, the only way Jehovah was able to prove superior to the false demon-gods of Egypt was because he was able to plunder them with ease.

Or use this logic:

(Matthew 12:25, 26) . . .Every kingdom divided against itself comes to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?

So Satan's demon-gods approved of Moses, so they combated against themselves and showed they were helpless against Jehovah to show they approved of Moses?

No. The only thing that proves is that their house is divided, and if that is the case, how can their kingdom stand? It means that it is coming to an end.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 


Do you realize how illogical it is to believe that jehovah is the all and yet claim that the gods of the occult are different then jehovah or shall i say Amun!

Here see if you can comprehend this.

You have so many choices you can make in any one situation. Therefore you multiple mentalities for one experience in your life. and this is tru to all experiences. So you can imagine the infinite amount of ways you can go about something as with people taking one statement so many ways.

That's why god is an infinite pantheon!



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 





I observed and participated in hundreds of séances, witnessing most forms of psychic phenomena including direct voice, levitation, ectoplasm and apports [the manifestation of material objects through occult power].


Where is the ectoplasm? If he was there and it occurred did he keep it, where did it go? Was a interview with his ex-wife conducted to verify the witchcraft story? Why wasn't it? What is Gordon's last name? Who was his initial church contact? Was he interviewed? Why not?

Look I'm sorry if in your earnest belief of your religion you take this story as truth without any evidence but a critical thinking person would not. What I'm saying is believe in your religion, but not in stories made up by people just to prove a point, Jehovah good, occult bad. If you need it fine, but don't pass it off as fact to everyone else.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Manunnaki
reply to post by SubAce
 


Do you realize how illogical it is to believe that jehovah is the all and yet claim that the gods of the occult are different then jehovah or shall i say Amun!

Here see if you can comprehend this.

You have so many choices you can make in any one situation. Therefore you multiple mentalities for one experience in your life. and this is tru to all experiences. So you can imagine the infinite amount of ways you can go about something as with people taking one statement so many ways.

That's why god is an infinite pantheon!


Pan comes from the greek which means all, and theon, comes from the greek which means god. So you are calling Jehovah all gods. Yet Jehovah says this about himself:

(Deuteronomy 6:4) . . .Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

(Isaiah 42:8) “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.

Jehovah is one. And he is the only true God. The demons who were ousted from his heavenly family, while god-like to us, in the fact that they live in the spirit realm and are higher beings than humans were created by Jehovah, and are in subjection to him:

(James 2:19) . . .You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.

Those false demon-gods know who Jehovah is, they used to be pure angels in heaven. Yet they fail, and at the very mention of his name they shudder in fear.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 


I knew you couldn't understand it so I didn't listen to the monkey drivel I will celebrate your ignorance and intolerance to other belief systems even if some of them are a little too off the beaten path all the while being the same as yours.

Christianity is nothing new basically you read a history book that has occult gods in it. those occult gods are way older then the religion you follow.

So like I was saying I celebrate your ignorance and intolerance by bumping your thread one last time for all to see.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by SubAce
 





I observed and participated in hundreds of séances, witnessing most forms of psychic phenomena including direct voice, levitation, ectoplasm and apports [the manifestation of material objects through occult power].


Where is the ectoplasm? If he was there and it occurred did he keep it, where did it go? Was a interview with his ex-wife conducted to verify the witchcraft story? Why wasn't it? What is Gordon's last name? Who was his initial church contact? Was he interviewed? Why not?

Look I'm sorry if in your earnest belief of your religion you take this story as truth without any evidence but a critical thinking person would not. What I'm saying is believe in your religion, but not in stories made up by people just to prove a point, Jehovah good, occult bad. If you need it fine, but don't pass it off as fact to everyone else.


Well, I quoted to you how the stories are vetted. And I know many of the people and experiences, I have seen some of the stuff myself at one time or another. Also I know if something gets through that is wrong, which can happen, retractions are made. If a mistake is printed it is not on purpose. So I know if it is in print I can trust that they believe it is the truth.

But you on the other hand will not believe because you don't have the experience I have. Yet there are others on this board who have experienced many of these things, perhaps they have not read this thread yet, perhaps they have and have remained silent. And it was to those ones that this post was geared toward. You who obviously have no experience in these things and are asking for proof before you believe it are making a lot of noise about it. Yet my very first reply to you should be sufficient.

The occult is real. Satan is real. Sorcery is real. Spiritism is real. Fortune-telling is real. Spell-binding is real. All of these things are confirmed in the Bible along with demon possession, and many other things dealing with witchcraft. The fact that the Bible says that these things are real is enough for a man of faith to believe that it is real.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't lie. We detest lying. That is another reason I believe another Jehovah's Witness when he speaks. And that is why it makes no sense when someone claims a Jehovah's Witness is a liar with no proof. We are actually very well known for our honesty. Lying is something that is detested by Jehovah God. Why would someone who worships Jehovah and wants to please him lie? It makes no sense. It is not logical.

Oh and one more thing, love itself should compel you to believe that a servant of Jehovah is telling the truth:

(1 Corinthians 13:4-7) . . .Love...believes all things.

I am not compelled by you to believe my brother is lying unless you prove otherwise.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by Manunnaki
reply to post by SubAce
 


I knew you couldn't understand it so I didn't listen to the monkey drivel I will celebrate your ignorance and intolerance to other belief systems even if some of them are a little too off the beaten path all the while being the same as yours.

Christianity is nothing new basically you read a history book that has occult gods in it. those occult gods are way older then the religion you follow.

So like I was saying I celebrate your ignorance and intolerance by bumping your thread one last time for all to see.


Here is a challenge that Jehovah has made to those other so-called gods:

(Isaiah 43:9) . . .Or can they cause us to hear even the first things? Let them furnish their witnesses, that they may be declared righteous, or let them hear and say, ‘It is the truth!’”

Can your false demon-gods furnish witnesses to publish the things before-hand? Jehovah said he would provide his witnesses:

(Isaiah 43:10, 11) . . .“YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”

That we have been chosen out of the world and given his name as his witnesses and have been given knowledge to combat all falsehood and declare his Godship is another proof of the superiority of Jehovah over all other false demon-gods.

At the time when he deems it, which is soon he will soon come to magnify his name as he did with Pharaoh, and at that time all will have to know who he is:

(Ezekiel 38:23) . . .And I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by SubAce
 


I take back what I said earlier about religion making someone a better person. In your case it doesn't. You're petty, illogical, narrow-minded, ugly, and ignorant. I don't know if you were like this before you found religion but it obviously hasn't helped and probably made it worse, because now you think you have all the answers. Well for your sake you'd better be right. Because when you die and if you meet your God, if it isn't Jehovah you got some splaining to do. good luck and good bye you're gonna need it.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by SubAce
 


I take back what I said earlier about religion making someone a better person. In your case it doesn't. You're petty, illogical, narrow-minded, ugly, and ignorant. I don't know if you were like this before you found religion but it obviously hasn't helped and probably made it worse, because now you think you have all the answers. Well for your sake you'd better be right. Because when you die and if you meet your God, if it isn't Jehovah you got some splaining to do. good luck and good bye you're gonna need it.


Luck is actually a part of demon-worship:

(Isaiah 65:11) . . .those setting in order a table for the god of Good Luck and those filling up mixed wine for the god of Destiny.

On the other hand if the Bible is correct, which it is, then what I have done is nothing to brag about, it is only what I should have done:

(Ezekiel 3:18) . . .When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will positively die,’ and you do not actually warn him and speak in order to warn the wicked one from his wicked way to preserve him alive, he being wicked, in his error he will die, but his blood I shall ask back from your own hand.

The only thing a man should brag about is this fact:

(Jeremiah 9:23, 24) . . .This is what Jehovah has said: “Let not the wise man brag about himself because of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man brag about himself because of his mightiness. Let not the rich man brag about himself because of his riches.” 24 “But let the one bragging about himself brag about himself because of this very thing, the having of insight and the having of knowledge of me, that I am Jehovah, the One exercising loving-kindness, justice and righteousness in the earth; for in these things I do take delight,” is the utterance of Jehovah.

The only thing worthy to be proud of or brag about is the fact of having knowledge of Jehovah. This is not a narrow-minded thing. For he is who brings life to all. And he loves all. And his mercy is open to all who will take it. He is a kind a generous God, but he will not forever tolerate wickedness. His patience has a limit. I tremble lest I may fail before him before the end. And I seek to find all that I may to come to him. For if the righteous man is being saved with difficulty, where will the wicked man make a standing in that day?

(1 Peter 4:18) . . .And if the righteous [man] is being saved with difficulty, where will the ungodly [man] and the sinner make a showing?”

I respect you. I disagree with your slander against our good name. But respect your right to do so. Nothing can remain hidden, and the darkness cannot hide the light.

Thank you for your time.



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 07:49 AM
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Why are you replicating whole watchtower articles here and not giving the source? Are you making out that the first post was entirely your own writing?



posted on Apr, 15 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by Cinrad
Why are you replicating whole watchtower articles here and not giving the source? Are you making out that the first post was entirely your own writing?


Why would you ask that if they're in external text quotes already? And the references are made, you just need to look below.





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