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Seriously!! People that are ignorant of the issues should not be allowed to vote.

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posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by OptimusSubprime
 


I know. It can't be done. I made this op as a result of being frustrated with my 76 year old father, who is the nicest man in the world but dumber than a rock. I can say that but you cant.

I am just aggravated that the populace is so freakin ignorant.




posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
I agree with your sentiment, but who would decide what "informed" is?


EXACTLY!!!

So if someone disagrees then they're uninformed, ignorant or stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Nonsense.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


I don't know who you have been reading but SS is completely sustainable until 2033.

Prove me wrong.

The only thing that needs to be done is to raise the cap on earners of more than $100,000 then the fund is sustainable for the next hundred years.

So, tell me about how we need to abolish SS and for what reason??

Can't wait.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by billy565
 


OK I admitted to that.

You are right.

My own son voted against the GMO labeling bill in Cali because he was convinced that it was going to be too costly to small businesses. Where the heck did he get that bunch of nonsense??

I am not trying to say who should or should not vote. It just is frustrating when others do not have a grasp on reality.

That was my rant.
edit on 14-4-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 



OK I see where you went. I will agree. What I don't agree with is the framing of the national discussion regarding Social Security as some kind of welfare benefit that affects the deficit and the budget.

It is a "meme", "entitlement".

You know what we are talking about. You want to play semantics...let's go.


The fact that you think I am playing semantics, proves only one thing to me! You believe in the two party system!!!

I hate em both!!!! Get it????

The fact of your OP and what pissed me off, was that you chose to blame all of our problems on 1 program! That fact alone and what you said, led me to believe you are a die hard right winger! Am I right?

So don't get all bent out of shape, because I choose to believe that the reason our country is so screwed up is to not be blamed on one party and one party alone! If the partisan arguments could hold any water whatsoever, then why is it that no matter how much they argue, NOT A DAMN ONE OF EM, WILL STAND UP AND TELL THE TRUTH????

But you go right ahead and call people who don't believe in the two party system too dumb to vote, or you go ahead and believe that those who don't believe as do you that they are too stupid to vote, when the fact of the matter is, that the whole process is rigged from the get go!

It's people like you who believe that voting in someone whom has already been selected by those who control the game is going to solve our problems, the reason WE ARE ALL SCREWED!!!

Have fun living in your fantasy world. You will soon find out just like the rest of us, how the government has sold every damn one of us out to the globalist bankers!


edit on 14-4-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


I have to agree with your frustration. I always felt people should have to take an online review on the issues before they're allowed to vote in an election. People should be required to view each candidates position on an issue before voting. Most people don't even know where their political party stands on issues!

If you really think about it, people are raised to follow a particular religion, including their political affiliation. I bet if half the people who are ignorant about the issues took a test online to find out what party they closely aligned themselves with, they would probably end up surprising themselves.

How many times do you here people say they voted based upon a name, or what their spouse told them who to vote for, or they just voted across party lines? Some people don't even care about current events, they're so naive about the issues, yet they feel it's their duty to vote blindly during every upcoming election.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 


Dude you make way too many assumptions. I am so far left, when I took a political survey 10 years ago they allied me with the Quakers.

I am all about the bs about the left/right paradigm. I am an advocate and have no bones about expressing my views to others.

I was ranting about the overall ignorance of voters, screw that, just people in general. Lame, lame lame. Not only are they ignorant they are disinterested and could give a fug. To me that is very sad.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by WeRpeons
 


Love what you said. Yeah it is true, and I will even admit I have voted for assemblyman on a party line vote. I have even eenie meenie minnie moed for the school board but that was years ago before I became interested in politics.

What are you gonna do??



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 


On second thought it is all my fault. From Nixon through Obama.

You have some anger in you. You need to chill.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 



Dude you make way too many assumptions. I am so far left, when I took a political survey 10 years ago they allied me with the Quakers.

I am all about the bs about the left/right paradigm. I am an advocate and have no bones about expressing my views to others.

I was ranting about the overall ignorance of voters, screw that, just people in general. Lame, lame lame. Not only are they ignorant they are disinterested and could give a fug. To me that is very sad.


Haha, perhaps! I consider myself a Libertarian. I believe in the Constitution, PERIOD! So I apologize! You are one of the first people whom I have met whom said they were a liberal and against an entitlement program!


I agree that people vote blindly, but why?

People do more research on a television purchase than who they vote for right? Why? It is all based on D versus R!
With that being said, do you not think THEY know that?

Honestly, I don't think you and I are that far apart, other than I think you still have some trust in the government and the election process, while I have no trust in the system whatsoever.......



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 


None, no trust at all. However, I am down with the social safety net, maybe that didn't come across in my postings.
I think our system of government needs to be demolished and remade from scratch. I just feel sad that more people are not engaged.

We can still be friends...right??

edit on 14-4-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by OptimusSubprime
 


I know. It can't be done. I made this op as a result of being frustrated with my 76 year old father, who is the nicest man in the world but dumber than a rock. I can say that but you cant.

I am just aggravated that the populace is so freakin ignorant.


Perhaps he is ignorant on that issue but he may very well be informed on other issues such as his stance on abortion or gun rights.

Certainly he should be allowed to vote for candidates who support his views on those issues.

Or are you contending that nobody should vote if they are not an expert on every single issue facing our nation today?

If that were so than I think only I and about four others would ever be allowed to vote.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 



None, no trust at all. However, I am down with the social safety net, maybe that didn't come across in my postings. I think our system of government needs to be demolished and remade from scratch. I just feel sad that more people are not engaged.

We can still be friends...right??


Hell yea man/woman! That is the beauty of debate right? I love it when thru some disagreements and arguments that when all is said and done, we can all realize we have much more in common than what the MSM and government makes us think!


I agree with all you said! So see, we just need to realize we all have a stake in the downfall of our country, and the only way we can win, is to say, "enough is enough"!



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Hopechest
 


You would get that I am not about all that if you read on through the thread. But that is ok. You are judging me without even knowing me. No, I am not about to give out aptitude tests at the polling station.

What bothers me is that people espouse upon issues with fabrications and would swear upon their first born child that it was true because they heard it on Hannity. This is a serious problem.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


Informed or not...

If people pay taxes to support needless wars, stupid social programs, corporate bailouts and corporate welfare,
salaries of their representatives, taxes to pay for the infrastructure, Social Security, etc.

They have the right to vote for whom ever strikes their fancy even if it seems stupid to you or me!!


What is it about "No taxation without representation" you don't understand???

It has nothing to do with being informed!!

And you don't know whether they are informed or not without some form of questionnaire.
edit on 14-4-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by Hopechest
 


You would get that I am not about all that if you read on through the thread. But that is ok. You are judging me without even knowing me. No, I am not about to give out aptitude tests at the polling station.

What bothers me is that people espouse upon issues with fabrications and would swear upon their first born child that it was true because they heard it on Hannity. This is a serious problem.


Its not a serious problem at all actually.

How often do you find two very well informed people who have different views on a particular topic even though they have the exact same information, even when that information is indisputable. As has been proven in this thread, which I did read, your original view on SS turned out to have a flip side to it didn't it.

You were correct and yet you were not, the same as the person you were debating with.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


If you actually believe there is a bank account earning interest with real money in it that cover the ss checks every month, not only are you the one who should not be allowed to vote, you shouldn't be given eating utensils less you put a fork in your eye while eating.

The Fraud of the Social Security ‘Trust Fund’ Exposed by a Most Unlikely Source


As everyone in Washington knows, the trust fund contains not cash but IOUs.


Social Security, the trust fund and funny money


Allen Smith, economics professor emeritus at Eastern Illinois University and author of "The Big Lie: How Our Government Hoodwinked the Public, Emptied the S.S. Trust Fund, and caused The Great Economic Collapse," spotted the 2009 quote, and it is telling.

It says: , "Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury, which must finance redemptions and interest payments through some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government spending, or additional borrowing from the public."

In other words, the trust fund is of no economic value.


Social Security and Medicare ‘Trust Funds’ Are a Lie


That still seems correct to me: the whole idea of the Social Security and Medicare “trust funds” is a lie. An institutionalized, ritualized lie that the U.S. government tells the American people. One perpetuated by both political parties, as well as others with an interest in hiding the reality of these programs’ unfunded liabilities. One that many journalists uncritically repeat.


If you take the time to read the links I have provided they have many sources for proof including academics and nonpartisan experts. So during the next election give your father a ride to the poling station and stay in the car while he votes.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Carreau
 


There is a trust fund. It has been borrowed against by congress. They need to pay it back.

What Krauthammer means is that as Social Security draws down its trust fund, it sells bonds back to the Treasury. The money it gets for those bonds comes from the general fund, which means that it does indeed have an effect on the deficit.

That much is true. But the idea that the trust fund is a "fiction" is absolutely wrong. And since this zombie notion is bound to come up repeatedly over the next few weeks, it's worth explaining why it's wrong. So here it is.

Starting in 1983, the payroll tax was deliberately set higher than it needed to be to cover payments to retirees. For the next 30 years, this extra money was sent to the Treasury, and this windfall allowed income tax rates to be lower than they otherwise would have been. During this period, people who paid payroll taxes suffered from this arrangement, while people who paid income taxes benefited.

Now things have turned around. As the baby boomers have started to retire, payroll taxes are less than they need to be to cover payments to retirees. To make up this shortfall, the Treasury is paying back the money it got over the past 30 years, and this means that income taxes need to be higher than they otherwise would be. For the next few decades, people who pay payroll taxes will benefit from this arrangement, while people who pay income taxes will suffer.

If payroll taxpayers and income taxpayers were the same people, none of this would matter. The trust fund really would be a fiction. But they aren't. Payroll taxpayers tend to be the poor and the middle class. Income taxpayers tend to be the upper middle class and the rich. Long story short, for the past 30 years, the poor and the middle class overpaid and the rich benefited. For the next 30 years or so, the rich will overpay and the poor and the middle class will benefit.


Text

SS Trust Fund Isn't Fiction



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by GrantedBail
 


I understand your frustration, sounds as if your Father came from another era where trust in Gov. was what rightful duty as a good citizen did.

he does not realize that the SS system is broken and a further hindrance on the tax paying citizen.

He is accepting modern day welfare. Period.

Now that is something I am certain with his mentality that would send him over the top to hear.

EVERYONE is ignorant, the more you know the less any of this makes sense and only an intelligent person can even come close to comprehending what the vote really means.

The intelligent enlightened voter, is like a snake eating its own tail.

Don't be too harsh on your Pops. He may not be able to handle the truth, not many can that is why the vested interests take generations to carry on the plans.



posted on Apr, 14 2013 @ 08:11 PM
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This side is brainwashed. That side is brainwashed. Anyone ever stop to think that the back-and-forth name calling is, in and of itself, evidence of the ultimate form of brainwashing? Ideology is not your friend.



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