a look into what is going on with our government.

Originally posted by mactheaxe
im not sure at what altitude theyre at, they should be offering some sort of trail though.

Read my reply. In flight refueling usually takes place between about 24,000 and 26,000 feet. Contrails normally form in the 34,000 foot range. They're too low, so as to not impede visibility of the receiver. Bad things tend to happen at that point, with lots of screaming, and blowing up, and things falling out of the sky.

Originally posted by mactheaxe
reply to post by waynos

 

im not sure at what altitude theyre at, they should be offering some sort of trail though.

No, planes don't leave trails at all if the temperature is high enough, generally you won't see one if the plane is below about 25,000ft, though that height can be variable.

Seems to me they realize that it burns too, however, if it did, these are metals, not chemicals. secondly. the video ive postes shows that they do use other means, like a retro fitted plane with those drums of goodness knows what. So the engine theory, yes, implausible to me. introducing the chemicals in the back of the engine in the turbine wake, more plausible. It seems they take advantage of the natural occurrences of that altitude in relation to humidity and ice forming.

If you have seen planes with drums they will be water ballast test tanks as are installed on prototypes of new airliners to test them under different load conditions. Pumping water around the plane is the best way to do this and it has been photographed on recent prototypes such as the A380, 747-8 and 787. Then chemmies get hold of them and............

Whichever way you want to cut it, Its happening. through just bad stuff in fuel, or intentionally. 25,000 flights in the us add up when it comes to the chemicals being released.

I agree it's a concern, but all you have so far is assumptions about the effects, and it does make a difference if it's done intentionally through spraying, cos those engines are still running.

reply to post by mactheaxe


Weather Modification Inc does cloud seeding, and weather monitoring.

www.weathermodification.com...

Cloud seeding is different than chemtrails as multiple chemtrail believers have pointed out.

reply to post by mactheaxe


Your rudimentary grasp of the water cycle is more than I expected, but you still don't see the whole picture.

Things the size of ice crystals in a cirrus cloud (because that is what a contrail is, a form of cirrus) do not fall down to earth for a very long time. Cirrus clouds do not produce precipitation. That comes from much lower clouds.
Where does the water come from? Evaporation from surface water, of course. But where does your drinking water come from? This is important, and why I suggested you research a bit about hydrology.
If your water source is surface water, it will contain run off from many different places, through many different smaller tributaries. You would need to know where all this water comes from. This is called the watershed. Then you need to learn what takes place within the watershed that might produce some kind of chemical signature. Things like industry (all kinds of chemicals), agriculture (ditto), even transportation (roadways contribute motor oil and other stuff to the run-off). And then you have to know the mineralogy of the entire watershed, to be able to know what the crustal earth is contributing. I don't know where you live, but if it's in the US, you can find a geological identification map at the state geology department website; all states have them, because it's important. And then you have to find out how your water is purified before it comes out your tap. Every water source is different, so the filtration and purification will be different place to place. And they can't get everything out...it's why water tastes different from city to city.
If on the other hand, your water source is from a well, then you need to know about the aquifer being tapped. Water in an aquifer can be decades old, many are even 100's of years old. Things like minerals are added to the water by percolation through the layers of soil and rock, so you need to know the mineral content of the land surface that contributes to the aquifer. Percolation usually takes years, which is why the water is so old. Rain and other water on the surface does not just run through the ground like water through coffee. What you see soaking into the ground today will probably be the water your grandchildren will be drinking....or maybe even their grandchildren. Which is why testing ground water is not going to really do anything to show what is right now over your head.
It's why I said you have to think things through. You know the steps, but are unaware of the scope of time needed.
(I realize this is really over-simplified, and does not account for shallow wells. Contamination from surface water run-off into shallow wells is a different matter, but you would still need to know the sources of the runoff, and what the contributing factors are before reaching the conclusion that it's anything even remotely like a "chemtrail." )

Originally posted by mactheaxe
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

why fuel dump? seems a waste. there seem to be no problems that need fuel to be dumped time and time again. why not use the fuel dump nozzles, theyre already there.

Fuel is dumped to reduce the weight of the aircraft to below the maximum allowed for landing - ie to keep it within the design limit loads for landing gear and attachments when the tarmac stops them from losing altitude!

Large, long range aircraft can carry so much fuel that their takeoff weight is often 10's of thousands of kilos above their max landing weight.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Large, long range aircraft can carry so much fuel that their takeoff weight is often 10's of thousands of kilos above their max landing weight.

Good example of this is the E-4B, based on the Boeing 747-200.

Max landing weight: 630,000 pounds roughly.

I've launched E-4s routinely at 810,000 pounds at take off, and their max take off weight is closer to 830,000 pounds. If you tried landing at that weight, you'd break the airplane into pieces.

reply to post by stars15k


thank you for your information. That was, to me, the most enlightening thing youve told me thus far. I know there are different sources of water, otherwise i live under a rock if i didnt. I also understand there are naturally occurring metals in earth contributing to these waters. Im questioning the high amounts found in certain parts of the country. Im also questioning what the use of these chemicals at high altitudes. Whats their use? Im questioning the status quo. albeit on a half way done thread on ATS. What i may lack in presentation has nothing on my deductive reasoning. I am personally proud to call out many false situations in my life with almost psychic ability. Im not a psychic, but i have a good grasp of big pictures. Im a big picture kind of guy. I can just see them.

The big picture is...........were screwed unless we stand up TOGETHER and do something.

reply to post by mactheaxe


Show one valid study that shows a high amount of anything at flight altitude.

Surely you have something that makes you believe it? Produce it.

Not what is found on the ground, or in some water somewhere. In the atmosphere, at flight altitude.

reply to post by mactheaxe


OH, and please, please, PLEASE stop "feeling", "believing", and all the other stuff.

Try actually learning something. Get a science book. Maybe a weather guide. The real world is bounded by the rules of physics, and they don't have "feelings".

Although i dont think this is undeniable proof, it does offer some interesting information on barium, and maybe a few more tidbits.
youtu.be...

* * * * Just a reminder........... * * * *

Enjoy the debate, but refrain from making it personal. Debate the issues, the science, but not each other.

thanks

argentus

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by mactheaxe

 

Show one valid study that shows a high amount of anything at flight altitude.

Surely you have something that makes you believe it? Produce it.

Not what is found on the ground, or in some water somewhere. In the atmosphere, at flight altitude.

Well just lemme get my suit on and go on up in one of these clouds. ill get right on that. If what ive shown, and the questions ive posed arent good enough, then so be it.

I could ask you the same question though, and have.......

Originally posted by mactheaxe
reply to post by stars15k

 

Im questioning the high amounts found in certain parts of the country.

I think you are asking the wrong question of the "high amounts" being found.

'cos prety much every time I see such a claim it turns out that they are not high at all - often someone is testing the sludge from water, and then applying the allowed level for water - but the sludge is not water - it is soil!

I have seen one case where a group invented their own limits and then cried foul because their materials tested over those "limits"

I have never seen any defendable case (ie the data stood up to scrutiny) where there was some real problem with any levels.

reply to post by mactheaxe


And amazingly, the story was retracted like a day or two later, because they didn't even come close to testing the samples properly. It was something like, they stuck a bucket out in the rain, and collected a bunch of water, that sat there, and was then put into another container, and sent to a lab. It was a total joke of an attempt. They also didn't even read the report right. The whole thing was amazingly horribly handled. The 6.8 parts per million, was actually parts per BILLION, which is normal.

reply to post by stars15k


then youre sorely in the blind. feelings arent tangible, but theyre there. anyways, back to this. Nature does have feelings, and were stomping every one of em. I have feelings, and TPTB dont care.


As far as learning, Im doing exactly that. I read, i study, i am open, An open mind is a wonderful thing. Its when you want to stop learning thats the problem.

reply to post by Zaphod58


By your logic, All that ive presented is horribly handled and easily explained. Show me proof. Not your explanations.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Maybe because we dont know enough about it? lack of information? So with that, what else do we have to fall upon?

Here's something interesting. No proof, but they did find an odd difference.
www.chemtrailcentral.com...

reply to post by mactheaxe


Proof has been shown all over ATS.

You have proof that the "chemtrail nozzles" on KC-10s are part of the flap track in pictures shown. You also have proof that the real video of that was made by a military person to hoax chemtrail people, in the video description.

A news station reported the results of tests on what they called chemtrails. "It seemed like some mornings it was just criss-crossing the whole sky. It was just like a giant checkerboard," said Bill Nichols, who reportedly noticed the "unusual clouds" begin as normal contrails from a jet engine, but unlike normal contrails, he claims, do not fade away. He then noticed "it would drop to the ground in a haze", the material collecting on the ground and in water he had sitting in bowls. KSLA News 12 sampled the water at a lab and initially reported a high level of barium, 6.8 parts per million, more than three times the toxic level set by the EPA. After contacting the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality, the news station was told that these levels are very unusual, but proving the source "is a whole 'nother matter". KSLA discovered during their investigation that barium is a hallmark of other chemtrail testing.[21] However the KSLA reporter had misread the reading, which was actually 68 parts per billion, well within expected ranges, and the station retracted the story.[22] The phenomenon attracted the attention of a Los Angeles network affiliate, which aired a similar investigation called "Toxic Sky?"[23] Following suit, Phoenix News Reporter Pat McReynolds at CBS KPHO interviewed Geoengineering Template:Cite news / publication-date=February 23, 2011/ url= www.kpho.com... investigators and concluded that chemtrails do not exist.

chemtruth.ning.com...

Barium is a silvery-white metal that can be found in the environment, where it exists naturally. It occurs combined with other chemicals, such as sulfur, carbon or oxygen. Ii is very light and its density is half that of iron. Barium oxidizes in air, reacts vigoroulsy with water to form the hydroxide, liberating hydrogen. Barium reacts with almost all the non-metals, forming often poisouning compounds.

Barium is surprisingly abundant in the Earth's crust, being the 14th most abundant element. High amounts of barium may only be found in soils and in food, such as nuts, seaweed, fish and certain plants.
Because of the extensive use of barium in the industries human activities add greatly to the release of barium in the environment. As a result barium concentrations in air, water and soil may be higher than naturally occurring concentrations on many locations.

Barium enters the air during mining processes, refining processes, and during the production of barium compounds. It can also enter the air during coal and oil combustion.

www.lenntech.com...

Strontium (chemical symbol Sr) is a silvery metal that rapidly turns yellowish in air. Strontium is found naturally as a non-radioactive element. Strontium has 16 known isotopes. Naturally occurring strontium is found as four stable isotopes Sr-84, -86, -87, and -88. Twelve other isotopes are radioactive. Strontium-90 is the most important radioactive isotope in the environment, although strontium-89 can be found around reactors, and strontium-85 is used in industry and medicine.

www.epa.gov...

Aluminum is an abundant element in Earth's crust: it is believed to be contained in a percentage from 7.5% to 8.1%. Aluminum is very rare in its free form. Aluminum contribute greatly to the properties of soil, where it is present mainly as insoluble aluminum hydroxide.
Aluminum is a reactive metal and it is hard to extract it from its ore, aluminum oxide (Al2O3). Aluminum is among the most difficult metals on earth to refine, the reason is that aluminum is oxidized very rapidly and that its oxide is an extremely stable compound that, unlike rust on iron, does not flake off. The very reason for which aluminum is used in many applications is why it is so hard to produce.
Several gemstones are made of the clear crystal form of aluminum oxide known as corundum. The presence of traces of other metals creates various colors: cobalt creates blues sapphires, and chromium makes red rubies. Both these are now easy and cheap to manufacture artificially. Topaz is aluminum silicate coloured yellow by traces of iron.

www.lenntech.com...

reply to post by mactheaxe


Your barrels inside planes:
contrailscience.com...

I've already linked to the company in the video of the "secretly recorded chemtrail pilot" and what they do.

Air refueling procedures aren't really commonly put on the net, so you'll have to take my word for those, or not, it's up to you, I don't really care one way or the other. You can find the basics on the FAA page, but not specifics.