"But who prays for Satan?" - Mark Twain

reply to post by FlyersFan

I pray for the defeat of Satan and evil spirits and evil in general.
But pray 'FOR' them .. to convert them?? Nope. I haven't.

If Jesus could pray for the Romans who were torturing him as he hung on the cross, who are you to turn your nose up at any sinner who could use prayer?

But in answer to your question: Even if I were Christian, I wouldn't pray for Satan. He's like the government agent who found out more than he wanted to. Get framed for treason, get cast out, promise to lead the sheep against the shepherd with the iron crook, and spend the rest of your life rallying the resistance. Come to think of it, the whole thing sounds like Terminator.

Anyway, I don't blame him in the least. "God" teaches forgiveness, yet practices judgment. He teaches love, yet repeatedly demonstrates contempt. Satan has every right to be pissed. I mean, how easy would it be for "God" to demonstrate pure love and forgiveness for Satan? To show him everything? If love is so powerful, not even Satan could resist such a gesture. And yet...Satan still suffers. Maybe he's malevolent because he's the most scorned entity in the world. Treat a man like a dog and he'll act like a dog. Ever thought of that?

Love Thy Enemy and Bless Those Who Curse You. Resist Not Evil. Turn The Other Cheek.


All of these words are from Jesus. I do NOT pray for the defeat of anyone. Whenever you have Love, it is like a light shinning through the darkness. What more could Satan want than for people to keep light away from him so he can grow with even more darkness?

I'm not saying to "Love" Satan. I am simply saying Jesus did not say to wish death or defeat upon anyone - AT ALL. Death, Defeat, Hatred, Fear - this is Darkness and Satan feeds off of this energy. This is the reason I believe Jesus said to resist not evil, to turn the other cheek and PRAY that God is taking care of everything through his WILL .

Your job - if you want to be with LIGHT (Heaven) is shine LIGHT (Love) not to send more DARKNESS (Hate, Death, Defeat) to that which is already DARK (Satan).

reply to post by arpgme


So then we should send love and forgiveness and compassion to him, right? If death and hate and defeat make him stronger, then surely everyone sending positive thoughts to him would kill him...or change him. Love conquers all, right? Or is Satan beyond all that now? If Satan is immune to love, then surely he can't be empowered by hate. Logically, immunity to one is immunity to its opposite.

I think praying for the fallen cherub's redemption would be useless.
Here's why:
1. The fallen cherub was the first in all creation to sin aginst God. He did not have a temptor, as we do. His sin was all him.

2. We do not have a first hand knowledge of the nature and love of God, the fallen cherub does. He was the highest ranking, most intelligent, most beutiful, and most talented angel in all of creation. It was his pride, which made him believe he could be equal to or greater than God. That sin lead to rebellion. So, knowing the nature of God first hand, he turned from God and became the enternal enemy of creation.

3. Forgiveness of sin would require a repentant heart, to be regenerated. As evidence from the first humans untill now, the fallen cherub wants us to sin, wants us to be destroyed, and he is actively trying to undermine the plan of God to this day.

4. Jesus never instructed mankind to forgive the fallen cherub, in fact, we are to oppose evil, turn from sin, and temptation. We are to show obedience to God by what we think, what we say, and what we do.

We need to keep in mind that we have the ability to love and follow God. We have the choice to obey God. We have, through God's grace and mercy, to be justified and sanctified to God. The fallen cherub's choice was enternal, so will be the wrath of God upon him.

reply to post by logical7

I was just reporting my experience, and it was quite the experience. Father of lies as Jesus said, so you never really know what's real and what's not.

What I do know is that every once in a long long while, as needed, God demonstrates, again, the power of his Resurrection.

That was my experience, and it was as if yet again God was one step ahead of everyone, satan included.

I think it ends well and begins anew well no matter what.

God transcends the duality, and therefore cannot be usurped or killed, thank God.

But it's amazing what God CAN do in my experience, and what demonstrations he makes before the whole of all creation by use of a single human being, where yet again his great power is demonstrated in apparent weakness. Fools the devil every time!

Here is the mantra that got me through, because it was as if my spiritual "bank account" was being raided you could say.

"All the treasure is in Jesus Christ, and the treasure is his love."

That was a real "groaner" I think for the evil one, and so whatever swap was being intended, the final swap got made again and it wasn't to the devil's credit let's just say. The strong man binds himself though, before the whole observing creation, in the set up, that's the funny part, and "when the strong man is bound then his house can be spoiled and his treasure (anything of any value) removed."

For me it was like being a pawn, but God had me covered and the devil checkmated all the way down the line. That was my experience.

That's what can happen when you pray for and ask for forgiveness for the devil.

And it's rather amuzing if not hilarious in hindsight looking back.

Humor and power and the treasure, the whole thing, held in reserve by Jesus Christ the living God.

Absent his power (the power of the love of God in Jesus Christ), his infinite wisdom, strength and love, and I would be a blithering schitzo-paranoid bipolar caved in mess of a human being - for praying for the devil.

So you don't even need to worry about it any more, because I've "been there done that got the t-shirt" and God won.

And in regards to the devil (if ever and wherever he might be) it's best just not to "make contact" and leave him so far behind that the possibility of future contact has been utterly removed, but again, only by the Grace and Atonement and Reconciliation of the Lord and the power and wisdom and might, and humor, of the living God.

A religion of fear, is a religion of death. This thread is Below No Secret! Mark Twain was a Satanist of the highest order. For the daft I offer the following consolation. To pray for Satan is to pray for yourself, you are god's duality, and Satan is your engine. All of life is perpetuated by the carnal, and carried forward by the idealistic. Your lofty mires are the crutches for your weak minds. You're self victimization is deplorable. I pray for God himself, he will need all the help he can get in picking up the slack for those of you whom refuse to carry yourselves. The light and the dark mingle in the shade, so the the sharp and the dull mingle till we all bleed. Where is your dead god in this world?

reply to post by Infernalis


You're funny too and you don't even know it.

Um, during my experience, as I felt the Satanic urge rise up in me, and knowing that it's ego it's insatiable egoic desire for power wouldn't be met except in another inevitable fall - I prayed to God to let me become Satan now and get it over with, while in a state of absolute repentance and humility, because my motivation and desire was to avoid at any and all cost now, and forever, any possibility of separation from God as the center and source of all life and love and wisdom - it was while I was doing laundry, which I felt was apt based on a certain passage in the book of Revelation, and as I fell to my knees, all but under possession on the one hand by an unrelenting, persistent Satanic craving for power and glory, but based and rooted in ego, and on the other hand desperate, absolutely to remain included and accepted as a child of God without any possibility of separation - I swear I heard a CHEER go up in heaven, and so right there in my laundry room, cleaning my whites clean, on my knees, I gave thanks to God, and I think it was at that point that I was saved, even though I still went through some other dramatic nonsense involving spiritual bank heists and the like, thereafter.

My "religion" is an absolute TRIUMPH, wherein something is bounded, and another, God's perfect love, demonstrated as boundless and something not only real and alive here in this world but in many others, from "powers and principalities" from here to kingdom come - like a great cosmic joke that can only be told from the POV of a human being, and, one told at the devil's expense, because of jealousy of the human being's place in God's creation, such that the last are first and the first last.

It was an authentic spiritual experience, not merely a psychotic breakdown.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Infernalis

 

You're funny too and you don't even know it.

Um, during my experience, as I felt the Satanic rise up in me, and I knowing that it's ego it's insatiable ego desire for power wouldn't be met except in another inevitable fall - I prayed to God to let me become Satan now and get it over with, while in a state of absolute repentance and humility, because my motivation and desire was to avoid at all cost now, and forever, any possibility of separation from God as the center and source of all live and love and wisdom - it was while I was doing laundry, which I felt was apt based on a certain passage in the book of Revelation, and as I fell to my needs, all but under possession on the one hand by an unrelenting, persistent craving for power and glory, but based in ego, and on the other desperate to remain included and accepted as a child of God without any possibility of separation - I swear I heard a CHEER go up in heaven, and so in my laundry room, cleaning my whites clean, on my knees I gave thanks to God, and I think it was at that point that I was saved, even though I still went through some other dramatic nonsense involving spiritual bank heists and the like.

Mine "religion" is an absolute TRIUMPH, wherein something is bounded and another (God's love) demonstrated as boundless and something not only real and alive in this world but in many others, and from powers and principalities of this world and in the heavens above, like a cosmic joke that can only be told from the POV of a human being, as a joke told at the devil's expense.

I know. Been there done that got the t-shirt.

You wreak of fear and ego and you don't even know it. I can love you as myself just the same. My right foot proceeds my left, and so in turn I move forward. Without ego their is only disillusion. God is the absolute, yet for you to remain manifest duality must persist. You can separate from the inseparable no more than you can subsist without sustenance. All is relative! Do not mistake the son for the father, nor the blood for the body. We are eternal only in our our knowledge of self. How can you know yourself by denying who you are? All is paradox!

reply to post by Infernalis

You don't get it. Now I know who I am and am of almost perfect mental health and well being, except for my cigarette addiction.

I've been attacked and have come out the other side, been through the ringer you have no idea.

Reintegration, acceptance, forgiveness, absolute love, free self expression - now I have absolute liberation, not the least of which is the freedom to be myself.

God saved me though, it was by the power of God that I came through the ordeal safe and sound while he did his demonstration.

You haven't walked in my shoes. I may wreak of that to you, but if you had any idea what I've been through you would know that I'm courageous, much moreso than the next guy.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?" -Mark Twain Personally, I don't think it would do any good ...
Fallen is fallen. Fallen angels can't rise up again.
(at least that's what I've read) I pray for the defeat of Satan and evil spirits and evil in general.
But pray 'FOR' them .. to convert them?? Nope. I haven't.Anyone out there pray FOR Satan or the evil spirits?
Not 'to' them ... but 'FOR' them?? Just wondering ....

Now this is an interesting question. If you believe Satan exists for you why not pray for his healing as HE most of all (other than GOD) needs forgiving. Personally I would pray for Gods salvation first and formost (of course they are the same being). You cannot pray for defeat of Satan; is he not fallen already? and would be fruitless. You can WISH HIM LOVE and BETTER TIMES in FUTURE. No conversion is necessary, as in it is beyond ITS control. You wish love upon it pure and it will change the evil thoughtform. It was stated to me to do this, rather than a banana peel slip and fall; or a safe landing on its head make the safe turn into the last moment of crushing its head turn into a handful of gold flake glitter BOMB inbueing a love/loosh form of energy it cannot escape. What an ingenous method to control It; it cannot overpower qwell it because there is no stronger form of energy other than the radiation of pure love energy; and can transform this victim (Satan) into a nuetralized Unicorn or a happy yellow smiley face or a Strawberry Shortcake; anything Smurfy, My Little Pony, a Cat with a bread slice around its neck; an apologetic infidel that explains everything as to why it takes joy in hurting the human race (probably because it was slighted out of its major gift to that race--Enlightenment).

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Infernalis

 

You don't get it. Now I know who I am and am of almost perfect mental health and well being, except for my cigarette addiction.

I've been attacked and have come out the other side, been through the ringer you have no idea.

Reintegration, acceptance, forgiveness, absolute love, free self expression - now I have absolute liberation, not the least of which is the freedom to be myself.

God saved me though, it was by the power of God that I came through the ordeal safe and sound while he did his demonstration.

You haven't walked in my shoes. I may wreak of that to you, but if you had any idea what I've been through you would know that I'm courageous, much moreso than the next guy.

My Brother can't you see I do? How could you have found triumph and liberation if not for the trials which you endured? How could you have grown and discovered your resolve, and thereby self knowledge if you had not experienced tribulation? What darkness can the light pierce without that darkness? All I am saying is that we are god and the devil in one, that many mistake the son for the true god, which is the absolute, and thereby encompasses the light and dark. Verily the devil is the product of "god", true god is of a higher order that many can perceive, the simple absolute. All we experience, joy and despair is the product of the duality of god in this material world and beyond. We cannot escape being god, we have no soul to loose when we realize what we are, which transcends this material war of light and dark, neither of which could exist without the other. God has not saved you, you have saved yourself for you are god, and your salvation is the devils hand wether you realize it or not. Take responsibility!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by arpgme

 

So then we should send love and forgiveness and compassion to him, right? If death and hate and defeat make him stronger, then surely everyone sending positive thoughts to him would kill him...or change him. Love conquers all, right? Or is Satan beyond all that now? If Satan is immune to love, then surely he can't be empowered by hate. Logically, immunity to one is immunity to its opposite.

There it is; explained perfectly. Do not hate Satan because that is its food source HATE. Send it love instead and watch it vomit its centuries of unrequited vengfullness, the/its immunity to higher frequency enlightenment will self destruct just like a good antibiotic working on a bacterial infection; OR CHANGE. What a concept, no birdy putt at the 18th hole.

reply to post by Infernalis

Those were some pretty wise works. You do have understanding.

That said, all the treasure IS in Christ where the treasure is his absolute love, and that in him there is no darkness where our reintegration into and reconciliation with God is by the power of forgiveness.

That has wholeness and integrity built right in but without compromise as an all or nothing proposition and I like that.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


The church uses Satan as a tool for instigating hate and fear, period.

The Bible is a book that no one fully understands, and people do all kinds of garbage to try and affirm themselves to something, in this case a kind of God they believe exists, albeit because it has been told to them these are the choices:

A:God, Church Good, Devil Bad

B:Non-religious have nothing, so you are better off to at least have our delusion!

C:You will die and your soul will be tortured forever UNLESS you make a pact with an entity you actually know nothing about, but better do it because you have no choice other than drugs and alcohol!

D:What are you doing with your life ? Realize that us as Christians in spite of everything we do materialistically, and the fact none of us know as much as the nearest atheist about how our scripture is manipulated, are better off than those who question, being a sheep is a blessing! You can just shut down and be herded by the Shepherd, err Church.

E:We do NOT get to the bottom of anything relevant, we will spend all of our time NOW talking about how Grace has appeared, even though we never spoke of it until recently, it was meant to release till now so we could write another thousand books to sell you to convince everyone some new ray of light shines for those who need it.

F:Never forget ! We are better off because the God we think is real, and the agenda and story he gave us is all there is, you shall not need to fear the reality because we will feed your illusion, so that you never actually grow spiritually, but stay in lock-step with the little energy bursts we have allowed you!

ETC ETC ETC. time to break these charades, Christianity is just as much a charade as anything else.

reply to post by ParasuvO


You are saying everything I have thought about many times and still have some hope that Humanity will wake up to the traveling carnival that visits its towns as canvas tent evangelicals disguised as Popery, Moroni, you name it youve got it, they cant even decide upon the majors; Islam, Confusionism, Hinduism, Buddism, Christianity, Shinto, Toaism let alone interpretations of/or splinter group versions of these traditions invoking God and requisite worship protocol; no common sense required; all they do is divide and kill each other.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Infernalis

 

Those were some pretty wise works. You do have understanding.

That said, all the treasure IS in Christ where the treasure is his absolute love, and that in him there is no darkness where our reintegration into and reconciliation with God is by the power of forgiveness.

That has wholeness and integrity built right in but without compromise as an all or nothing proposition and I like that.

edit on 15-4-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

They said to Him: "Shall we then, being children, enter the Kingdom?" Jesus said to them: "When you make the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, then you shall enter the kingdom."

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
If Jesus could pray for the Romans who were torturing him as he hung on the cross, who are you to turn your nose up at any sinner who could use prayer?

That's just it ... can he 'use prayer' or not? That's the question.
Scripture says that Satan is damned. So would prayer do any good?

how easy would it be for "God" to demonstrate pure love and forgiveness for Satan?

To have forgiveness .. it must be asked for. Satan doesn't ask for it. He fights God.

Treat a man like a dog and he'll act like a dog. Ever thought of that?[

Did you read the thread? We've already discussed that.

Satan wasn't treated like a dog. He had the highest position in heaven. He was the most glorious of all of God's creation. The highest being. He basked in the love of God. But then Satan turned away from God and has never repented of that.

I'm a psychology major so I understand people being conditioned to stop loving and start hating parents who mistreat them. However, God didn't mistreat Satan. Satan mistreated God after being created higher than all others ... and Satan didn't ask forgiveness or repent. He still hates God.

Originally posted by Infernalis
Mark Twain was a Satanist of the highest order.

Really? I hadn't heard that.
Does anyone have any reliable info on this??

Lots of baseless speculation and worthless opinion in this thread.

Read more: ichthys.com...

reply to post by Infernalis

A religion of fear, is a religion of death.

Oh? And yet people call themselves God-fearing...they say fear of "God" is kind of expected. I mean, isn't there a fear of hell in there somewhere? A fear of possession, a fear of temptation, a fear of failure...a general aversion to all imperfection. All symptoms of trial and error. There's a lot of people who don't take it too seriously, which relieves me in the hope that they will begin to discover the power of embracing the shadow. As I've said before, there's a shadow for every candle, and studying the shadow will reveal more about the light. And in the inevitable days when the candle doesn't seem to shine so brightly, you can face the shadow without fear because you know exactly what it is and have made peace with it. In this way, you will know exactly what to do because you now understand the interaction between the currents of your soul. You've extended your awareness beyond just the stuff that makes your existence tolerable.

But those who continue to cling to the rock, to fight the flow of the stream, will be battered by the dance of the universe. The nature of the universe is motion, and those who try to live in one age forever will eventually be crushed. Every great empire has fallen, because nothing lasts forever. Everything is immersed in the flow. But then again, every study of such things is rooted in pagan culture and mythology, so it's instantly considered Satanic and discarded. It's amazing what a little prehistoric plagiarism can do for you.

So yeah. A cult of fear is a cult of death. You'd be amazed how many people "God" killed in the Bible. I believe he's the equivalent of about four Hitlers. Get four of them in a row and you have the approximate summation of the atrocities credited to the almighty. Pretty impressive, isn't it? And then he declares himself ruler of our world just because he created us. Don't we get a decision? I mean, we get to choose our governors and presidents, why can't we choose our god? Let one of your archangels take the wheel. Retire. Hell, if it bothers you that much, set up a reincarnation cycle, Avatar style!

To pray for Satan is to pray for yourself, you are god's duality, and Satan is your engine.

So I'm Satan now, huh? Wow, that was quick for an internet conversation. My engine is joy and excitement. If that's what Satan is, I'll gladly take him. Why would I want anything else?

All of life is perpetuated by the carnal, and carried forward by the idealistic.

We pretend to be such a superior species, but we're so far from knowing what's superior. Our carnal nature is something we'll never escape, and rejecting it will only leave us ill prepared when we have to deal with it again and again.

Have you looked around lately? Everything you have today was inspired by an ideal. There was a reason. It was made with an intent. Even nature has an essential function that's useful to this rock we spawned on. And I agree, it's idealistic to accept the carnal. It's funny like that. The immaterial supports a material focus. But only in balance.

I pray for God himself, he will need all the help he can get in picking up the slack for those of you whom refuse to carry yourselves.

Are you serious? Mankind is supposed to sell its collective souls and all of its personal rights - constitutional rights, mind you - to "God" in exchange for emotional security. After all the time we have spent fighting tyrants and dictators, we're still fully willing to embrace a dictatorship as long as we can escape the vividly fluctuant roller coaster that life on Earth has to offer. We seek perfection because all we've known is imperfection and we're getting sick and tired of it. Little do we know that imperfection is the cognitive system of spirit. Imperfection gives us more understanding of the world as we struggle to understand our place in it. As we face our trials and tests, we learn how to handle the curveballs life throws us. We take those lemons and make lemonade, selling that stuff for $2 a cup and saving up for a nice pair of steel-toed boots...so when life comes back around, we can give it a nice swift kick up - aaannyyyway! But seriously, imperfection develops character just like working on a farm.

The light and the dark mingle in the shade, so the the sharp and the dull mingle till we all bleed. Where is your dead god in this world?

I could ask the same of you.