France bans ketchup from schools and colleges to promote healthy eating and preserve food culture.

I don't really see this as government control, and if the people in France like it, the kids are eating healthy and thier culture is presserved, sounds great to me.

I don't see it as much different then people in the USA wanting to presserve our customs for our Children...

-Well, after the idiots here trying to call French fries"- "Freedom Fries" - I would say I have no right to comment on this issue.

...But, I think its dumb. But no more stupid than the USA banning cupcakes for childrens birthday parties.

reply to post by Rodinus


Star for your kind explanation, thank you.

I got nothing against healthy living and healthy food but my basic gripe is still the government's intervention. Wouldn't they be a better if these ideas are instill onto those students about healthy foods through good parenting and education rather that through blatant enforcement ? We need youngsters who can make their own informed decisions instead of nannying them around into hating themselves through young adulthood that they weren't allowed to eat this and that because the state said so.

Cheers...

Originally posted by bloodreviara
i really cannot fathom why anyone thinks they should be able to dictate HOW
or WHAT to eat.

Because these are children, and like it or not, adults are responsible for the wellbeing of children.

This is like suggesting that we don't have the right to educate them at all, about anything, ever, and that they should just be abandoned and free to roam wild - it's their right to LIBERTY an FREEDOM!

No, kids do not know what is good or bad for them, and parents have a DUTY to protect them, educate them, encourage them, nurture them. Stopping them from eating trash that can do them harm is part of that duty of care.

When they are old enough to make their own decisions, then fine, they can drown themselves in Ketchup if they feel so inclined. But until then it is the job of their parents and other adults to make decisions in their best interests. I would deem any control of their diet to be in the best interests.

And, as so many parents are so ill equipped to raise their own kids properly, then the state has to step in to do it for them. There are millions of parents who have no clue what they are doing, feeding their kids total trash every day of the week. I fully believe that in those cases something should be done to educate more.

I have long believed that there are three things that are not really made a priority in schools but should be at the top of the list... Sociology, Economics and Diet. These are building blocks of life, but we are neglecting all of these in favour of teaching kids about History, Mathematics and Language. While all subjects are good and should be included, we are creating too many kids who have few values, little ambition, litte awareness of the society around them and how they fit into it, and very little sense of morality.

It used to be that parents would be left to teach their kids these things, but they are consistently failing in that one basic job. They are leaving the system to educate their kids and not teaching them the basics of life - things that the education system believes should be in the hands of the parents.

This is why we have people growing up without guidance on diet, without basic understanding of society, with no respect for others, with no interest in improving themselves... Take a look at all those who DO have these qualities and you will likely find that they have impressive parents. Then look at the people who don't have those qualities and you will probably see that they grew up with unstable, disinterested, selfish parents.

Originally posted by gort51
For Non US people...what exactly is "Ketchup"? and Jelly in Peanut butter and "Jelly"?

We use Tomato Sauce, Chutney, Jam, Marmalade, Mayonnaise, Mustard, Pickles, Gherkins and other English delicacies, but ketchup has always baffled me.

Ketchup is a thick, seasoned tomato sauce that comes in a bottle, and is a very traditional condiment in the US, usually used on burgers and fries and with eggs and potatos..lol...at least for me...

Jelly is probably just like what you call Jam, and a very classic sandwhich here is peanut butter and jelly, especially for kids.

What exactley is Chutney, is that made from apples?

Originally posted by mypan
Wouldn't they be a better if these ideas are instill onto those students about healthy foods through good parenting and education rather that through blatant enforcement ? We need youngsters who can make their own informed decisions instead of nannying them around into hating themselves through young adulthood that they weren't allowed to eat this and that because the state said so.

I agree, but what do you do when this has clearly failed?
This is the way it has been for decades, with parents being left to educate on specific issues such as society, health, morality etc, and these are clearly things that are not being taught in many cases.

It should be the job of the parent, but the parent thinks it's the job of the education system. So there is no one to teach these kids about these VITAL aspects of life.

There comes a point when someone has to step in and do the job that parents are not doing. I agree that it should be a shake up in the education system to include all these things, but I don't think we have time for that. It would take years to push through these kinds of changes in most countries, so this is a compromise.

Ultimately, I think if the state is educating kids then they should make the rules. If a parent doesn't like it, then they have the opportunity to remove their kids and educate them themselves.

Brilliant.

Now if they were actually banning it across the board, it would be one thing to then claim it's for health.

but if it is as said, that you can get it for specific foods, then WTF? If I want to put sauce on my burger rings as I crunch them into a buttered roll, I better be able to. What a ridiculous policy.

"Can I have sauce please?"
"What you gonna put it on son?"
"My egg sandwich."
"No way, get out and eat a carrot fatty."

"Can I have sauce please?"
"What you gonna put it on son?"
"These deep fried chunks of potato."
"Here you go, that's 80 cents thanks."

Baloney, if they were about health, as someone else said, they'd serve proper tasty food in the first place.

Reminds me of many years ago when I was skint, I bought a cheese sausage for $1.80 and a buttered roll for 0.50 cents. When the guy behind the counter saw I was putting the sausage IN the roll, he tried to charge me an extra 4 bucks or so because I made it into a hot dog.

Told him where to go.

If they're selling it then restricting it to only what they say you can eat? That's a joke.

I was in France in October 2012. I had to constantly ask for the butter (la beurre). I don't remember seeing any katsup bottles in the bistros either. Panera bread is much better than french bread. French foods are healthy and small in portion sizes. Diet coke was 4.5 Euros, which is $6.00 USD! For a ten ounce can! I drank water with every meal and ate alot of salads. Walked every where and lost weight. I felt hungry the whole time I was in France. Portion sizes are very small and the population size is overwhelming! I saw only one fast food place, a Mc Donalds near the Louvre. It was difficult to wait until 7 pm to eat dinner, they wont sell it until then. We usually ate a sandwhich and went to bed instead! France is the place to vacaction and lose weight!

I didn't read all the posts. And perhaps I date most people on ATS. But I freakin remember when Prez Reagan declared ketchup a vegetable. I kid you not. It was when they were trying to mess around with the school lunches. Don't make me think too hard right now, I am busy. LOL

I think the French are absolutely correct about this. Whilst tomato ketchup isn't in itself particularly unhealthy, it is certainly true that it is the 'flagship' of the type of overly-easy food that people in the West feed kids. When I was a lad in the mid 90s, our (British) school cafeteria was full of hotdogs, burgers, pizza, fries etc - simply because it was cheap and easy to produce.

France has a very distinctive (and excellent) cuisine, so I think it's entirely right that kids are taught about that at school. Not formally, of course, but through their meals. There's nothing wrong with burgers and fries a few times a month (who doesn't love burgers and fries?!), but it really isn't much more difficult or expensive to produce better food reflective of good quality cuisine.

Anyhow, most of the distinctive elements of Europe's various cuisines have peasant origins - good quality food that is by it's nature cheap to produce. Why not focus on that? I know kids here in the UK would enjoy sitting down to a nice lamb hotpot at lunch.

Ketchup is vile anyway. It's just vinegar and sugar with a splash of red dye. *barf*

If I'm making meatloaf or anything else which would call for ketchup, I use Heinz 57 sauce, which isn't THAT much different, but infinitely superior in every way.

Sauce VS Ketchup

Heinz is not replacing Heinz Big Red Tomato Sauce with Heinz Ketchup - they are different products. While we continue to love our Heinz Big Red Tomato Sauce, our ketchup is different because it contains more tomatoes per 100ml (195g) than Sauce (168g) - which is why we say it is thicker and richer, and why many consumers think it tastes better. If Heinz Big Red Tomato Sauce is not available in your local supermarket, ask them to stock it. We have no intention of replacing Big Red Tomato Sauce with Ketchup - they're both great! Heinz Big Red and Heinz Ketchup - We love them both! Heinz Big Red and Heinz Ketchup - We love them both!

www.hjheinz.com.au...

Well Ketchup is going in my cupboard. I didn't know they had it here in aus.

Such rules are supported by the people- they are a statement of what the french people want and value. It is not like anyone was bothered by it. Frankly, I found it extremely irritating when my daughter spent a year in Calif. and at her high school, she could not get any healthy food! The only thing available was an apple- besides that there was just things like pizza, hot dogs, burritos, fries.....

She got fat so fast, it was really worrisome. She came back with an extra 20 pounds! - despite the fact that she was still in training that whole time doing gymnastics and rugby.
Luckily she lost it once back. I have three kids, not one is overweight. But I am sure that if I was in the US, that would not be the case. The society would throw them to the fast food industry like rabbits in front of lions.


The people have more power here, the masses have much more say, partly because they know that solidarity is the key to holding that power... and it is in culture that we find the glue.

Big business and dirty polititians have a lot to gain by keeping the people divided and extremely individualized.


Each society forms their culture as they wish, and they prefer not to do things the same way in France as in the US.
If the americans don't like what the french do in their country, I strongly suggest they not move there.

I have made a thread about porno industry.

In that thread , some people said that banning porno industry is going to hurt their freedom

I wonder how banning ketchup is not hurting the freedom.

This thread

Originally posted by mideast
I have made a thread about porno industry.

In that thread , some people said that banning porno industry is going to hurt their freedom

I wonder how banning ketchup is not hurting the freedom.

This thread

I suppose that it depends on where you are smothering the ketchup when you are being filmed my friend?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I don't see how this is bad, maybe the United States has a different food culture to the one I'm familiar with, and I'm not French.

I come from a working class family through and through(British), but we ate with meals what was to be ate with meals. You didn't have ketchup on the table at all times to throw over any old dish from roast dinner to pizza. You had a choice of purpose created condiments for the food in question, same as you get in restaurants. What's unusual about that? Not every night, sometimes you had an easy meal with chips(fries) then you could go wild, but when the family(usually my grandma) made the effort to spend hours cooking in the kitchen, you'd have been a brave person to slight the meal with heinz or hp

It doesn't just promote healthy eating and a better attitude towards food, i'd think it helps with manners too for that reason. You learn respect, respect for other people. Respect for the person who's made the effort to cook you a proper meal. There's nothing ruder than taking a meal someone has really made an effort with and altering it into something completely different by abusing cheap table sauces. It's a massive slap in the face. I know people who do that don't realise they're doing it because they haven't been raised correctly so you can't fault them for being ignorant, but that's why it's good to see schools in France stepping up to the plate and making up for parents laziness.

I'm an adult now so of course if I want to put some reggae reggae sauce on a lamb I cook myself I bloody well will do, but as far as eating what someones made for me, it's just good manners to not squirt mass manufactured ketchup all over the dish.

i almost forgot to mention that the policy in question will stop kids growing up into choosy brats. Too many are ultra fussy because their parents and schools never fed them right.

a little shocked at the opposition to this by some Americans. I always had America down as a country with conservative values that emphasised good manners and respect, surprised this is seen as controversial there.

But what are they gonna put on their french fries now?? Oh that's right, french fries aren't French.

Wow!!!!
You frenchies are so lucky!

This is what you get in the UK schools.


And thats it, theres no other courses.

I always took it for granted that people actually knew what food to put ketchup onto. How could someone mess something like this up? For me putting ketchup on a hot dog (which i havent eaten in a decade or so) was really straying off the beaten path but i actually preferred it over mustard. Same for soft pretzels, if you have to tell someone not put ketchup on one would seem really strange to me. Mustard on a soft pretzel seems to be standard though.

I could see these French kids putting ketchup on pizza and wondering - didnt anyone ever tell you that is just not right?

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Wow!!!!
You frenchies are so lucky!

This is what you get in the UK schools.

And thats it, theres no other courses.

edit on 14-4-2013 by VoidHawk because: (no reason given)

That is one of the saddest meals I've ever seen
Where's the rest of the salad?
A white bun? So sad....

I thought Jamie Oliver was supposed to fix that.

I've heard the French have some of the best school meals.