I love Jesus. I'm a Jesus lover.

I'm probably alone on this but I see no love or light, or god's love or anything remotely to do with religion and being loved or loving someone who was wrote in a story 2000+ years ago. I see no point in religion at all, we live, then we die, that's it.


I have a clouded mind, that will probably never clear up.

reply to post by skyblueworld

May you come to see the magnificent beauty of life, it's meaning, purpose and significance, and it's love and playful creativity, and may you eventually realize clear blue skies..

God Bless,

NAM

Originally posted by bloodreviara
I am glad you can take all the good and ignore all the bad that jesus
encouraged, i have a hard time get past the brutal immoral things he
commands his followers to do in his and his fathers name, to stone,
murder, enslave and otherwise demean humanity by claiming morality
when there was none is not a good thing, i don't see how it ever could be.

To love a brutal dictator like being that cannot even equal current human
morality is a bit odd but many folks loved hitler and stalin and on and on.

One thing i would ask is that you please be more moral than the one you
worship was, then we can all love what we want freely and be happy.

I can't believe that someone or something taught you about someone other than the Jesus I know. You must be speaking of some guy with a Hispanic name of Jesus(Hey-Zeus). Jesus of Nazereth never told anyone to stone another human being, just the opposite, he said to people who were stoning a woman, "Let those of you without sin cast the first stone". And the people dropped their stones and walked away as they realized they were not perfect either. He wasn't literally telling them to cast stones at her, You must be thinking of a different religion altogether! Educate yourself my friend, you'll find the most kind, loving, forgiving person to ever walk the face of the Earth.

reply to post by PMNOrlando

It was reported that the oldest among them were the first to drop their stones, probably because they had more accumulated sins.

Jesus then went to her and asked her "has anyone condemned you?" in response to which she looked around and said "no". "Then neither do I condemn you" said Jesus.

What's interesting about the story is when they brought forth the woman to be stoned and then invited Jesus to say something, once again hoping to trick him, since the old law required stoning for adultery, Jesus bent down and drew something on the ground before standing up and making his famous statement "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I wonder what he was writing on the ground, no one will ever know. I think he was simply contemplating how to handle the situation, and maybe drew a mandala or something.

Originally posted by skyblueworld

I have a clouded mind, that will probably never clear up.

Nicodemus felt the same way and he knew Jesus personally!

Nicodemus and Jesus - Reborn
go to 2:24 in the vid - segment runs to 5:35

Note catefully the subtle nuances (intentionally directed) in this exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus surrounding the issue of rebirth.

Somehow, we need to die to our old self and be reborn in Spirit and Truth, so that our mind will clear and our heart no longer be troubled.

In this way, as an allegory, the whole notion of death and resurrection points to an evolutionary process of radical transformation by which life and death can be seen in a whole new light, where even death is just a part of life, and according to the Christian view is swallowed whole by life meeting life everlasting such that death does not have the last word, with life reinvigorated with meaning, purpose and significance, allowing us to recover our lost inner child and to see the kingdom of God spread out upon the creation.

If anyone's interested in Jesus, I highly recommend the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, not in that particular order.

In fact, you could start and end with John alone, for your reading enjoyment, if not convenience, you know to wittle it and pare it down to the most time-efficient manner for a modern age.

Many of us haven't actually read it and might even be afraid to read the Bible, I know I can be and I'm a believer! lol

There's something in us that puts it off, the contemplation of the Gospels and the Gospel message, but don't you see that if you've been putting something off even for all the wrong reasons that that's a reason in and of itself to finally do it and get it done.

One needs to approach it however, without an anti-religious bias or axe to grind or with an open mind and heart, or simply put open-mindedness and willingness, that's all I did, was re-approach it with curiosity and with an investigative but open eye.

And aren't many of you rather curious to know what's in there, in those four thin short stories?

It isn't much as far as actual reading goes, but it sure left an impression on me from reading the Gospels a few times over. For some reason I can remember and recall more from that little exercise than any reading or learning I've ever done. It resonated with me, and the more I looked into it, the more the historical Jesus seemed to want to step right off the page and allow me to more fully acquaint myself with his character, his genius, charm, and good-humor. He was a man that understood clearly that life is meant to be lived to the full, even to overflowing. In fact, so that we might enjoy that kind of life is why he says he was sent by none other than God of the highest!

Might we, in our revulsion towards "religion" have thrown out the baby with the bathwater by not taking a closer look at this Jesus character?

Wouldn't that be funny, if the real Jesus is the kind of person everyone BUT his own church is able to accept and relate to, and understand and comprehend in regards to his desire and motivations, and his "modus operandi" allowing us to know him, first on paper and then in Spirit and Truth and Life.

Maybe the invitation of Jesus is actually directed in ways and in a manner no one really expected. That's the Jesus I know, quick with a real zinger that you didn't get until until the joke had you in stitches oh they must have had a real blast him and his friends (disciples). And you'll note in actually reading the Gospels that half the time the disciples didn't have a clue what was really going on or what their friend was really up to, but they had his company, his heart and face with them, what a thing that would be, to enjoy the company of the Lord, what fun!

But Jesus can be understood, now, again, as if for the first time, because of our own increased perspective, understanding and awareness, and we know that there was some myth layered on and that the Gospels are written as historical Apocrypha meaning to both hide and reveal. Were there miracles? Probably. Are they all true in the sense of being historical fact all of them? Probably not. Was Jesus real? Definitely.

Look for him, just one more time, with open mindedness and willingness, nothing more nothing less.

Start with The Gospel of John. Who knows, by night's end, you might be able to get through all four Gospels, but John is sufficient as a starting point - I was going to suggest Mathew but it starts out with a twisted genealogy that I felt might have been off-putting for anyone who's never read the Bible earnestly, that it would confirm your worst fears (that it would be boring, even contorted and contradictory in nature, and hanging your hat on that, not reading past page one! It's a good one though because it's got the Sermon on the Mount.

When I read the Bible as a younger person, even as a kid, it didn't make any sense to me and Church was nothing but BOR-ING, but as an adult in my search and seeking, I made a return and re-examined it in a more mature and informed way, and what I've discovered there in the process is the very fount of all wisdom and knowledge and understanding, and things otherwise inconceivable and incomprehensible suddenly begin to become apparent and I think that's because the Logos or the Spirit of Wisdom aka Sophia (which Christ embodied) is still alive, and still informing us, even about unfathomable things like limitless love and the height of universal Justice and Mercy or Forgiveness. It can be a real eye opener, when you look at it in a whole new light, with a curious and seeking mind and heart.

I hope you enjoy the read, and even if you've read it before, it's worth a fresh evaluation, who knows maybe you might get inspired by it and live a better life, and if that weren't enough, a million more (in whatever domain) but where it always gets better and never gets any worse, that point. When we get and receive the knowledge of God in Jesus, that's the point of epiphany.

John

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
who knows maybe you might get inspired by it and live a better life, and if that weren't enough, a million more (in whatever domain) but where it always gets better and never gets any worse, that point.

That reminds me of an old song by a Canadian band called Max Webster called "A Million Vacations"

so just for fun (to spruce up the thread)


Here's another one that's relevant ("from the streets up to Paradise skies")

might not have been your thing I realize, oh well what can I do I'm just trying to have fun as Jesus commands ("I came that you would have life and have life to the full - even to the point of overflowing!")

Best Regards,


NAM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
If anyone's interested in Jesus, I highly recommend the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, not in that particular order.

In our day and age amid the "rise of atheism" that right there is one of the funniest things I've ever posted here at ATS.

But I DO hope you take the time to re-read them, it's still funny though looking back on it.

Everyone's like NO I am NOT "interested" in Jesus and therefore I will NOT read what's in the Gospels especially not a second time! Nothing but myths and fairy tails the whole damn thing and I will have nothing whatsoever to do with it, let alone read it with a curious and inquisitive mind, NO, WAY, you can count me OUT of the Jesus nonsense right now lest God forbid there might be something to it!

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Well educated and researched?

If that was your principle you would certainly not be religious as it doesn't take much looking to realise the bible is a fairytale.

I would like to think that with unbiased compelling evidence I could change my opinion. I don't think you could say the same.

Good luck looking for "unbiased" information on any side of the debate!

P.S. Disregarding information for the reason of bias is called a "Circumstantial Ad Hominem" fallacy.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Its the ideal not the law. If everyone lived like Christ taught would it be all crap then? I think its better to be the victim than the perpetrator, whos conscience awakens.

reply to post by borntowatch

 

You got right to the root of the matter. The ideal.

The ideal supposedly handed down by Jesus is an impossible task. Humans can't be perfect, not even close! So, these ideals can only lead believers into a sense of guilt and shame. Someone who loves Jesus, but secretly harbors hate for his neighbor (who is a total moron that nobody likes) or feel hate for a criminal, that man has failed. Man simply can't be love 24/7 all of their lives; it's not humanly possible.

Remember, with this god you don't have to do anything physical to fail. With this god you can be guilty of thought crimes - and everyone is probably guilty of this everyday.

We don't act, but we imagine getting revenge against someone that talked about us behind our backs. We pride ourselves on being smarter than others. How are we supposed to not fantasize, lust after a neighbor's beautiful spouse? It's what we DO!

I know, you'll say that Jesus understands this, so we just have to keep trying to be perfect. We can't try to be perfect - it's impossible.

Without these ideals you will find that you don't fail at anything mentioned above. You're just being the only thing you can be - human.

edit on 4/15/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

I think the difference is knowing the difference between evil and good and not justifying faults

What's rather astounding, imho, to eventually realize and recognize, is that Jesus was working to a precise schedule set in place years prior, both in future collusion with his cousin, John the Baptist, an Essene, and relative to something much much more extraordinary, and in the final analysis, utterly astounding!

Prepare to be gobsmacked.

The Day of the Cross.

What's an even further marvel, if that weren't enough is when we realize that he threaded the needle and survived the oreal (although obediant unto the point of death) to be spit back out of the belly of the beast (sign of Jonah), into the resurrected life of absolute liberation beyond the tomb, where it may be said that when what's first is last and the last first, the best is always reserved for last, but in this case it's a shared triumph of everlasting happiness, joy and bliss on the other wise of the cross of sorrow and suffering and heartache and tribulation. In other words he wasn't "beamed straight up" and yet did go to his father in heaven while also living heaven here on earth, because a life of sorrow and suffering and heartache, to be complete needs to be completed in absolute joy and happiness and unfettered freedom even from a cosmologically prescribed "box". So what I'm saying is that for the most part Christendom only celebrates half the life of Jesus Christ and we forget to Celebrate the Resurrected Life which is the authentic life of all new possibility, joy and satisfaction. The good life. That's what Jesus held in reserve by completing the circle of joy.

But it's not complete.

The Great Work of all Ages isn't complete unless and until that circle of joy is completed in and through us, then it's complete.

So our work therefore, our charge or commission or just as a reasonable open invitation, is like Jesus himself to have the courage also to be happy and to fill our sorrow and suffering with an even greater measure of joy.

"The more that sorrow and suffering has carved into your being the more joy you can contain."

~ Kahlil Gibran

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Praise the Father, Yahweh
Praise the Son, Yeshua

reply to post by NewAgeMan


@NewAgeMan,

I have an earnest question for you: Could you give some examples of Jesus' humor? I honestly have never heard/read any humorous quotes of his, or anecdotes concerning him. This is a serious request/question.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


What you call "the rise of atheism" we call the rise of common sense, learning, logic and reason.

What is so wrong with the rise of atheism? let's be honest religion had it's chance and it's failed miserably.

There isn't a shred of evidence for the existence of a god yet tonnes against it so people who are prepared to think for themselves should be atheist.

Remember we're all born atheist, unfortunately some of us including myself were lied to and told there was this invisible sky wizard who created everything and watches our every move and unless we pretty much stay in an empty room all our lives and say nothing we're going to hell. Luckily I have returned to the default state of atheism as I am very good at detecting bulls**t.

It's time to let religion die it's inevitable death. Jesus wasn't the son of god, he wasn't a prophet. If he existed at all he was merely a charismatic and convincing individual, much like Hitler for instance.

We could take bets now that the Boston bombings weren't carried out by atheists.

POLYTHEISM - MONOTHEISM - ATHEISM (Natural progression)

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

...I didn't write it off. I kept an open mind, even a scientific mind...

So you openly admit that some of the scriptures have be "mythologized" over the ages, yet you claim to have approached it with an open and even scientific mind, and emerged as a believer?

faith /fāTH/
Noun
1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2. Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
I could possibly list over 100 other books based on real scientific FACT, that could (if understood) have a much greater impact on your life.
Hell, I love the characters in Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, World of Warcraft and even Star Trek...but under no circumstances do I get so caught up that I would base my life around their teachings.

reply to post by Griffo515


Oh well to each his own as they say.

And may you live long, and prosper.

V

reply to post by NewAgeMan

I wonder what he was writing on the ground, no one will ever know. I think he was simply contemplating how to handle the situation, and maybe drew a mandala or something.

Esther had Haman killed by the king because he was found in her bed.
So, according to that book which got incorporated into the Old Testament canon, the man was killed, and not the woman.
I Think that the crowd who were out for vengeance, or whatever, were not happy with that prospect, having the man killed. Apparently they would rather drop the subject than to have to deal with that question.

So, he could have written:
"Esther, Haman. Kill Haman!"

reply to post by Griffo515


Just asking. Why are you not willing to base your life around love?