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The story of Satan in Islamic tradition

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posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى , إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى


Now We all know the story of Satan in Islamic tradition is not something we should ignore, Because today you can see Muslims themselves also arguing that the Holy book they got from God is not enough for them . While God says in Quran Sura 29:51

{And is it not enough for them that we have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe.} Let's make the satanic innovations clear

Quran hits back. ( وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى , إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى)

{ Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:}

Sura 53 verse 3 and 4 . you will notice here two implications

1) In Arabic (هُوَ ) Huwa used to indicate one thing but (هما )humaa for both, so if God was talking about two legislative source ie. Quran and Hadith., He would have said ..(َمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى , إِنْ هما . إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى

{ Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
they both are no less than inspiration sent down to him:}

2)Now even if we agree every word that Prophet Mohammed has said was an inspiration sent down to him, we can clearly see Hadith has still been unauthorized by God as a legislative source according to the verse you have given. Because there is a terminology for Hadith.

if you know well Hadith terminology, then you would know in every Hadith there is 3 parts ( 1) Raavee. the narrator) (2 sanadh. The Chain) ( 3 mathan. the text)

the text of the Hadith is coming as a second Hand one, not directly from Mohammed unlike QURAN .Quran has no narrator except Prophet Mohammed.so even if we agree every word that Prophet Mohammed has said was an inspiration sent down to him , The words of Abu huraira, Ibn Masoodh and all the narrators were not involved in (إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى) Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. God says HE not THEM



God gives the Warranty only for Prophet Mohammed, how come Abu Huraira, and Ibn Masoodh , and all other Sahaabas ( his friends) should get that Warranty
{ Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:}


Saheeh Bukhari

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."

Do you want to say this Hadith is an Inspiration from God?.. When it says Umar Said,

Indeed what this Hadith trying to prove is Quran is not Perfect some verses of Quran missing!!

Hadith says the verse of stoning was missing from Quran and now you can find it from Hadith only , and here it is ,

(( الشيخ والشيخة إذا زنيا فارجموهما البتة نكالا‌ً من الله والله عزيز حكيم)
The old man and the old lady if they committed adultery then stone them as a punishment from God , and God is most noble and high

If this was true there is only two probability

1) Prophet Mohammed kept some of God's revelation as a secret

2) God was busy for something and mistakenly he sent a wrong verse and made re-correction later. because today you would never find the punishment of Stoning from Quran

Friends of Prophet Mohammed says they heard Prophet Mohammed was saying these hadith. but the Truth is the one and only Hadith he gave as a legislative source was QURAN. and prophet never Said Islam has to have a [Censor board} to categorize God's revelation as authentic, weak,strong,best,very weak,so who gave them the authority to categorize God's revelations?

I'll give you number of legislation s From Hadith those were not authorized by God.never in Quran


1. تحريم لبس الذهب للرجال ليس بحرام بالقرءان بينما هو حرام في السنة
wearing Gold is not forbidden or ''haraam''in Quran but forbidden in Sunna and Hadith.

2. ويكون تعطر المرأة ليس بحرام بالقرءان بينما هو حرام بالسنة
Using perfume to women is not forbidden in Quran but forbidden in Sunna and Hadith.

3. وحلق اللحية ليس بحرام بالقرءان بينما هو حرام في السنة
Shaving beard is not forbidden is Quran but forbidden in Sunna and Hadith.

4. والفتوحات الإسلامية تكون حراما بالقرءان بينما هي حلال بالسنة
Holy War to spread Islam is forbidden in Quran but allowed in Sunna and Hadith.

5. وقتل المرتد حرام بالقرءان بينما هو حلال بالسنة
Death penalty to the apostasy is forbidden in Quran but allowed in Sunna and Hadith.

Continued...




posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:28 PM
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6. وقتل تارك الصلاة حرام بالقرءان بينما هو حلال بالسنة بعد استتابته ثلاثة أيام
Death penalty to someone who leaves prayer is forbidden in Quran, but allowed in Sunna and Hadith if he passed 3 days without prayer.

7. ونكاح الصغيرات حرام بالقرءان بينما هو حلال بالسنة
Child Marriage is forbidden in Quran but allowed in Sunna and Hadith.

8. والحيلة في الزواج حرام بالقرءان بينما هي حلال في السنة [قال بذلك البخاري
Cheating to the wife is forbidden is Quran but allowed in Sunna and Hadith.according to Bukhari

9. والوصية حلال بالقرءان ومطلقة بينما هي محددة بالسنة
Bequest is allowed in Quran but limited in Hadith and Sunna

10. واسترقاق الأسرى حرام بالقرءان وحلال بالسنة
To enslave the hostages is forbidden in Quran but allowed in Sunna


11. وشرب أبوال الإبل حرام بالقرءان [لأن الله حرم علينا الخبائث] بينما هي حلال في السنة
To drink camel urine is prohibited in Quran because Quran says '' [أن الله حرم عليكم الخبائث]God has prohibited to you impure dirty things

12. وعقوبة إشهار الزنا بحيث يشهد عليه أربعة هو الجلد بالقرءان بينما هو القتل رجما بالسنة
The penalty of fornification according to Quran is flogging but in Sunna it was stoning to death.


13. وعقوبة الاعتداء على اعضاء الإنسان وإتلافها هو التعزير والتغريم بالقرءان بينما هو القصاص بقطع عضو مماثل للعضو المقطوع أو الذي تم إتلافه بالسنة
Punishment to The harm or injury given to someone's limb is equal in any exchange in Quran, but the same injury the same harm should be given in Sunna

14. والموسيقى حلال بالقرءان وحرام بالسنة
The Music is allowed in Quran, prohibited in Sunna

15. وزواج الصغيرات بالرجل المسن مباح بالسنة وممنوع بالقرءان
Marriage of Old men to little children prohibited in Quran but allowed in Sunna

16. وإشهاد المرأة على جرائم الحدود ممنوع بينما هو في القرءان مباح
witness of Women to the crimes is prohibited in Sunna, but allowed in Quran
.

God says in Quran Sura 42: 21

( What! have they partners (in godhead), who have established for them some religion without the permission of Allah? Had it not been for the Decree of Judgment, the matter would have been decided between them (at once). But verily the Wrong-doers will have a grievous Penalty.

The story of Satan in Islamic tradition .. countinues...



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Astyanax


My contribution has been to suggest, and show some evidence to verify, that the concept of the Devil in Islam was rather obviously cribbed from the Christian concept.


And maybe, if we're really lucky, then we might even get to the next step and see whether Islam returned the favor and helped shape later Christian developments in "the best Bible character who isn't in the Bible."

One of these days, maybe.


logical7


why are you stuck on what the creed says?


Maybe because that's what's taught by the churches to which more than two billion people belong, and these define what most people call "Christianity" when they don't say which kind.


do you agree?


With what? That Christians can't use history to prove their complete system? OK. They believe, as do Muslims, that God created all things except God. Neither Christians nor Muslims can prove that using history. That history can play no part in criticizing Islam or Christianity? No, I don't agree with that, nor do I see what that has to do with both Christianity and Islam teaching beliefs beyond what history can prove.

I also don't see what any of that has to do with Christians believing that Jesus died and then later was resurrected while Muslims believe that Jesus didn't die. These are different views about what happened in history. Just because history can't decide this controversy, it doesn't follow that Christians can't criticize Mulsims about other things using historical grounds. Muslims criticize Christians that way. Scorpie has criticized orthodox Christians for their trinitarian theology based in part on what, in his view, happened historically.


Jesus pbuh recieved Gospel ...


Good example. Jesus preached orally, and some of what he preached was written down by men. That's history, I believe. But did Jesus receive the Gospel (in the sense of what he preached, "good news") or did he compose it? Christians think he composed it, Muslims think he received it. Parallel situation with Mohammed. He recited the Koran. That's history. Received or composed? Christians and Muslims answer the same way for both Jesus and Mohammed, and differently from each other.


How you can say one was inspired by God while other forged?


That doesn't ring any bells with anything I've posted. As I say to Scorpie, there's nothing wrong with influence. Nobody disputes that Jesus was influenced by the Jewish Bible; he quoted it just about every chance he got. There's nothing wrong with influence; there's no reason why God himself wouldn't quote the Bible if he were, say, writing a speech. Which, of course, is what Christians believe is going on with Jesus' speeches.


while NT was compiled in 325 CE and 4 gospels picked among 30 and that was long after all apostles had died.


I don't agree with your dates, but we're way, way away from Satan in Islam...


So tell me objectively, if both were historical figures, whose teachings are better preserved?


I didn't hear either one of them speak, so I really wouldn't know. I am also unaware that Christians quarrel all that much with the Koran being nearly faithful to what Mohammed recited, with maybe the occasional fascination with "the Satanic verses" or the suppression of alternative transcriptions which some allege to have happened.


Do you reject both equally regarding their claims of being Messiah(Jesus pbuh) and last Prophet(Muhammad pbuh)?
I guess both would be just humans to you with some teachings but If not then why?


I'm unsure what you mean by "just humans," but I'm not Jewish, so I don't have a vote on the Messiah thing. I am also unsure what I am supposed to "reject equally." So far as I know, Christians and Muslims agree that Jesus is the Messiah, and disagree whether Mohammed is a prophet (and also whether there is such a thing as a "last prophet").

So long as the focus of the discussion is Christians and Muslims (which it will be in this thread since they are the major religions who have an enemy or rival of God), then I would take for the purposes of discussion Jesus' Messiahship as a given, since both "sides" agree, and who's a prophet as something that is in dispute, since the "sides" disagree about that.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:50 PM
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And I am eager to hear from you how you could get the details about how to do Vozu , Tayammum , Haj.


You can easily find how to do ,ablution or ''vozu'' from Quran (sura 5 verse 6)

O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles.

But note.. This is how God has told you to do ''Vozu'' The ablution... Satan was not satisfied with this , God says to wash 4 parts

1)FACE,
2)ARMS TO THE ELBOW,
3)HEAD ,
4)FEET.

Satan added another 4 parts to this through Hadith


5)Palm with two wrists
6)mouth
7)nose
8)ears

And you could say 5,6,7,8 is to clean more, why not take shower if you want clean more ,Here the point is God had told us certain method to take ablution.and we are saying NOT ENOUGH.




Tayammum

Tayammum was a practice of nature, which was done and has been doing like taking shower
since long before prophet Mohammed was born. And it is not Rocket science.

For example Bath,...God would not say take a bath unless We know how to take bath.

It is not sensible that God would say to do something we don't know

We see chicken cleaning their body with sands. Who taught them? from which book?. We see see little turtles rush into the river or sea after they hatched? who taught them,
Those are practices of nature



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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Haj.

hajj also a practice learnt one by one, by following how the ancestors has been doing rather than Hadith books, what hadith books has done is to make it more controversial.

those who performed hajj 150 after the death of Prophet Mohammed, has no book of Bukhari, no muslim, no Abu dhavudh, thirmizee, or Nasaeem or Ibni Maajaa. Hadithes were surfaced only after 150 years after the Prophet Mohammed.

But you can still see an overview of Hajj from Quran.

2: 127 {And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.}

2:128 {"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.}

2:129 {"Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."}

And God heard Abraham's prayer, fulfilled his wish, and sent Mohammed as a Messenger from among Meccans.

See!! 2:130 {And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.}

So how can we say we forsakes the The Religion of Abraham, and we are practicing a new way?..

The pilgrimage begins with a bath or shower, followed by a state of sanctity called "Ihraam," where the male pilgrim wears seamless sheets of material, and the woman wears a modest dress (2:196). Throughout Hajj, the pilgrim abstains from sexual intercourse, vanities such as shaving and cutting the hair, arguments, misconduct, and bad language (2:197). Cleanliness, bathing, and regular hygiene practices are encouraged. Upon arrival at the Sacred Mosque in Mecca, the pilgrim walks around the Ka`bah seven times, while glorifying and praising God (2:125, 22:26-29).

he common formula is: "Labbayka Allaahumma Labbayk" (My God, I have responded to You). "Labbayka Laa Shareeka Laka Labbayk" (I have responded to You, and I proclaim that there is no other god besides You; I have responded to You). The next step is to walk the half-mile distance between the knolls of Safa and Marwah seven times, with occasional trotting (2:158). This completes the `Umrah portion of the pilgrimage.

The pilgrim then goes to `Arafat to spend a day of worship, meditation, and glorification of God, from dawn to sunset (2:198). After sunset, the pilgrim goes to Muzdalifah where the Night Prayer is observed, and 21 pebbles are picked up for the symbolic stoning of Satan at Mina. From Muzdalifah, the pilgrim goes to Mina to spend two or three days (2:203).

On the first morning at Mina, the pilgrim offers an animal sacrifice to feed the poor and to commemorate God's intervention to save Ismail and Abraham from Satan's trick. The stoning ceremonies symbolize rejection of Satan's polytheism and are done by throwing seven pebbles at each of three stations, while glorifying God (15:34). The pilgrim then returns to Mecca and observes a farewell circumvolution of the Ka`bah seven times.

Unfortunately, most of today's Muslim pilgrims make it a custom to visit the prophet Muhammad's tomb where they commit the most flagrant acts of idolatry and thus nullify their Hajj. The Quran consistently talks about "The Sacred Mosque," while today's Muslims talk about "The Two Sacred Mosques!" In a glaring act of idolatry, the Muslims have set up Muhammad's tomb as another "Sacred Mosque!" This is a blasphemous violation of the Quran, and, ironically, even violates Hadith. Hadith book as recorded this Hadith; "God has cursed the Jews and Christians for turning the tombs of their prophets into mosques." [Bukhari, Nawawi Edition, Vol. 6, Page 14]



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by eight bits
 





Just because history can't decide this controversy, it doesn't follow that Christians can't criticize Mulsims about other things using historical grounds. Muslims criticize Christians that way.

well i agree. I am not against criticizing any religion using history. I am against a theist of religion X criticizing things about religion Y which are in his/her own religion too and have to be taken by faith. Like prophethood, divine revealation, miracles etc. It also applies to denfender/s of a faith even if they don't belong to it

Using the scripture of a religion to question/crticize the same is fine.

Using scripture of X to criticize or as proof against Y and vice versa is just ridiculous! Sadly many do it and feel proud that they answered it so good.

Gospel (in the sense of what he
preached, "good news") or did he compose it? Christians think he
composed it,
Muslims think he
received it.

thats news to me! Are you sure?


So long as the focus of the discussion
is Christians and Muslims (which it will
be in this thread since they are the
major religions who have an enemy or
rival of God)

finally something on topic. NO God in Islam does not have a rival/enemy as you are thinking about satan. Satan is just enemy of humans. I don't know the christian view.
The opposite of Allah is not devil.
Allah has no equal and opposite entity.
Even in christianity, opposite of devil is angel and not God.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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logical7


thats news to me! Are you sure?


I am if we are both using the word "Gospel" in the sense of the content of the "good news." What Jesus preached, Jesus composed himself. Other uses of the word: The four canonical Gospels were written years later (maybe not as many years as you said, but years), by four different people, none of them were Jesus. Paul also referred to his preaching about Jesus (and the preaching of some others as well) as a Gospel.


finally something on topic. NO God in Islam does not have a rival/enemy as you are thinking about satan. Satan is just enemy of humans. I don't know the christian view.
The opposite of Allah is not devil.
Allah has no equal and opposite entity.
Even in christianity, opposite of devil is angel and not God.


I didn't say anything about equal, both Christianity and Islam teach that God has no equal. Nor did I say opposite. "Rival or enemy" was intended to be broad, as it must be even for Christian thinking; this is not creedal subject matter, and there is little Biblical foundation, either.

Any words are a little tricky here. Satan cannot actually be much of a problem for any version of the Abrahamic God; A creature can only directly influence humans or other sentient creatures. This affects the Christian God because God prefers that humans behave in certain ways, which Satan tries to prevent. Satan is a rival of God for human compliance with God's instructions. No human being could faithfully serve both, or follow the instructions of both.

By the phrase "enemy or rival," I was trying to get at an incompatibility of intentions, without much possibility of reconciliation or coordination. By all means, feel free to propose something better; but "equal and opposite" is Newtonian mechanics, not anything like what I was saying.



posted on Apr, 16 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



My point was simple. "if christians can't use history to prove their belief completely, they or anyone defending the side should not used history to disprove Islam"


Simple answer... they can't.

Honestly, I'd like to see ONE non-biblical record of the dead coming back to life and walking around the streets.

I'm referring to the New Testaments story of the dead rising from the grave and walking into the city.
Amazingly, this spectacular event takes place only in the book of Matthew. Even Mark, Luke and John seem to have ignored it!



posted on Apr, 17 2013 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 


I agree with you on more or less everything.
By Gospel i mean what Jesus pbuh preached orally.
The 4 gospels are just biographies.
What paul wrote is very doubtful like the writer.

Yes satan is not equal, he just has respite till an appointed time. His wish is to mislead as many as he can till his time runs out.



posted on May, 26 2013 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 



Again, you seem to have a problem distinguishing among literary influence, plagiarism, and eclecticism - all routinely encounterd literary practices


You seem to have a problem grasping the basic premise that, according to Islam, Mohammad received his revelations directly from Gabriel.

Suggesting "literary influence" is simply a way of discounting the Islamic idea that Mohammad received divine revelations. Sorry, but there really is no reason why I or any other Muslim should discuss an Islamic topic on the opponents terms that Mohammad did not receive divine revelations and that he was simply influenced by another book.

I'd rather discuss the theological matters presented in the OP and the attached video. With people like you, I guess I would first need to convince you that the Koran is divine revelation, before getting around to discussing its theology. Don't have the time or the energy for it. Its the same reason why Christians wouldn't waste their time with atheists who insist the Bible is a book of fairy tales.





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