The story of Satan in Islamic tradition

God never send different manuals, He sent the same manual to different people at different times. Now what happened was the manuals had been modified according to the culture and the nature and the region of those people that receaved, The book of Moses. and the book of Jesus, and the book of Mohammed came from the same source .

Quran never says the people who follow Quran and Mohammed would be the only people who would go to heaven .. See Quran Sura 2: verse 62

[Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.]

It is not a big deal if Quran has the same stories repeated as it is, or with some variation as which were in other Scriptures , why?.. because See
Quran 3 : 46

[And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.]

And the story of Satanic verses is a real living proof that Satan exists with his mission untill today, and that negative energy pushes the people forward to believe the DATA it has corrupted for days. Islamic Corrupted Data is Call HADITH..

The so called Hadith was written 200 years after the death of prophet Mohammed, and those Hadith is the only source that says Satan has given a verse to prophet Mohammed. when Ibn Ishaaq wrote his biography about Mohammed he took that Hadith .. lets make clear about Hadith??

HOW MANY HADITHS?
The number of hadiths collected and attributed to the prophet Muhammed is in the hundreds of thousands, as much as 700, 000. As much as 99% of all these hundreds of thousands hadiths are pure lies and fabrications and were rejected by the early Muslim scholars who thought they can figure out which hadith is authentic and which is not. Let us look at some of the famous hadiths collectors and what they collected.

Malik Ibn Anas collected about 500 hadiths in his famous book, "Al-Muwattaa"
Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, collected about 40, 000 hadiths, in his famous "Musnad".He chose these 40, 000 hadiths from among 700, 000 hadiths. In other words he thought 660, 000 hadith were un-proven, lies and/or fabrications and the others may be authentic. That is 94% lies and fabrications
Bukhary collected about 600, 000 hadiths and accepted 7275 hadiths and considered 592, 725 hadiths to be un-proven hadiths, lies and/or fabrications, that is almost 99% of what he collected .
Moslem collected 300, 000 hadiths and only accepted 4000 of them, and refused about 296, 000 . that is almost 99% of these collected hadiths .
This will give you an idea of how much corruption entered or tried to enter Islam from the back door.


DOES HISTORY REPEAT ITSELF ??
The Jews, hundreds of years after Moses's death created Mishnah (hadith, sayings) and Gemarrah (sunna, Actions) and uphold them and the invented laws in them rather than the TORAH (revealed word of God).

In the city of Nicene 300 years after the death of Jesus, the concept of Trinity was CREATED, and is now the primary source of a Christian's belief in defiance of the Bible which advocates the absolute worship of God Alone.

The Muslims 150- 200 years after the death of Muhammed CREATED another source of their religion with the Quran, "Hadith and Sunnah", falsely attributed to the prophet Muhammed, and in defiance of the Quran. Today most Muslims have discarded the Quran in favor of Hadith and Sunnah.

I hope now you can have an overview about Islam today .. if you want to know more,? here we go www.submission.org...

reply to post by newincubus


it was nice to read a reasonable and intellectual post.
Are you new to ATS? Welcome
i hope to read more of your views.
EDIT- i saw your id is registered on july 2011!!
Got a wrong idea as i just noticed number of posts.
Anyways still eager to know more of your views.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Sequence of narration...

- Jinns were created before Adam
- They lived on earth as communities
- They were extremely wicked and corrupted in their ways
- They were driven out of the land by an army of angels
- Satan(Iblis) was among the Jinn but he worshiped God
- He was given the rank of an angel
- God created a new kind of being from clay (Adam)
- The angels asked if the new being would also spread corruption on earth, like the Jinn.
- Satan grows jealous of the new being
- His jealousy turns to pride and looks down upon the new being
- God commands the angels to prostrate before the new being, they comply
- Satan (who had the rank of an angel) refuses to
- Satan being made of fire says he is better than Adam who was made of clay
- Satan ends up being cursed by God
- Satan asks God for respite till the day of judgement
- Satan then swears to lead humans astray
- Satan is told that he would have no power over the true servants of God

Enjoy.


IMO, this gives a background to the Biblical story of Satan misleading Adam / Eve into eating the fruit. Satan's plan was to mislead mankind, so it explains why Satan decided to deceive somebody just minding their own business, not posing a threat to him, or even being aware of him.

edit on 13-4-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

It's pretty crazy what arrogance can to do to someone. It feeds a person envy and hate. It breeds racism and national pride, and ego.
I fear my Lord and hope He forgives me for all my sins. Shaitan wants everyone to either worship their own greed or Shaitan himself. As long as human beings continue to worship them selves and give credit to themselves, we will never prosper truly.
Its crazy how the media is pointing at the truth and calling it lies.
alhamdulillah – “praise belongs to Allah (swt) That im born a Muslim
insha’Allah – God willing, if Allah (swt) wills my deen( the way of life for a Muslim.) will grow stronger.

Honestly, Quran is all right. There is not one line that wrong

reply to post by logical7

I don't see a reason to argue with you.

I'm glad you finally realised that. Unlike some here, I am not on this thread to pour hatred over your faith.

*

reply to post by maung

I don't know enough about Islam to know whether your way of looking at the issue is doctrinally sound, but it is certainly similar to that of many Muslims I have personally known. Better than that, you obviously aren't here with a chip on your shoulder to take offence against perceived insults to your religion, like half the Muslims and Christians on this web site. A star for you, and thank you for bringing some normality back to the discussion.

*

reply to post by mideast

So, as a Christian, you are doing what exactly Jews did to Christ.

I have already stated that I am an atheist.

Your post has nothing to do with the matters we are discussing; you are simply lecturing me about my beliefs and attitudes. This is quite annoying, but since it is obvious that you lack the educational development, or even the language skills, to understand what I'm talking about, you are forgiven. Go in peace.

reply to post by Astyanax

In response to the OP's suggestion of parallels between the Biblical Satan and that of the Koran, I pointed out that Arabia was largely surrounded and influenced by the Christian world, but not part of it; thus the stories in the Bible would be known to many Arabs

If the Christian world was half as influential on the Islamic religion as you make it seem, then Arabia would have become Christian. Pre-Islamic Arabia was a hotbed of idolatry and paganism, not a Christian kingdom. Yet, Islam a purely monotheistic religion which recognized Jesus as messiah, was established in Arabia after routing the polytheists and idolaters. Islams references to Jesus and the Biblical stories exist because Mohammad received those revelations.

The Biblical Israelites living in the Levant were also surrounded by a multitude of other cultures following their own religions. Doesn't automatically mean that the Israelite religion was influenced by those cultures, though many people make that claim.

I then gave a well-known example of how Christian ideas have been adopted into Islam, which the OP, doubtless for his own reasons, refused to accept.

Your example was already addressed. Also read above.

only an atheist is rationally qualified to discuss religion.

The word "atheist" simply means someone who lacks belief in any deity. Being one doesn't automatically make you qualified for anything.

reply to post by Joecroft

Interesting thread, I never knew Islam saw Jinns as Satan, always thought that Jinns were just viewed as evil spirits.

Jinns, like angels and humans are a race of beings. Satan was one of the Jinn, but dwelled with angels because of his worship of God. And yes, Jinns are the evil spirits the bible speaks of, as they are capable of possessing humans.

I’m curious though, in regards to your OP, what is the Islamic (or your own) perspective of Genesis 3, verses 14-15… specifically verse 15 in particular.

15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

Regarding the enmity between Adam and Eve and their offspring, Islam teaches...
Allah said, "Descend from Paradise - all, your descendants being enemies to one another.
-Koran 20:123

other translations say
"He said: Go down hence, both of you, one of you a foe unto the other."

Scorpie

If the Christian world was half as influential on the Islamic religion as you make it seem, then Arabia would have become Christian.

Now there's an interesting thread idea - given that the Christian and Jewish religions were so obviously the antecedents of the Koran and that their lore so thoroughly preoccupied Mohammed, why didn't he institute a locally flavored version of Jewish-Christianity?

Maybe he did. There were some ancient Jewish Christianities, some of them were documented in Epiphanius' Fourth Century Panarion. Unsurprisingly, they didn't look much like orthodox Gentile Christianity, either.

Anyway, the Panarion teaches one thing clearly: the most common variety of Christianity, measured by number of systems, was the many highly developed heterodox Christianities. Even measured by number of adherents or by longevity, heterodoxy was at least competitive with orthodoxy. So, it's not hugely surprising that if a place was converted violently and on a national scale to its first widely observed Abrahamic religion, by a native of the nation (not a missionary warrior bringing in something that was fully formed elsewhere), that Abrahamic religion would be something that could be called, based on content, a Christian heresy.

Doesn't automatically mean that the Israelite religion was influenced by those cultures, though many people make that claim.

Including Jews. What's the problem with noticing, commenting on, and learning from your neighbors? Whatever the influence, few of any persuasion seriously dispute that Judasim stems from a distinctive religious tradition when compared with its ancestral neighbors.

The one and only problem Islam has with "influence" is that it is an inherently credible competing explanation with "revelation" as the entire source of the Koran. Jews don't have that problem. Their chief revelation is supposedly set in the desert, where it's just the Israelites, collectively, and their God. Whlie gathered, they talk openly about their influences: how things were in Egypt and how things are among their neighbors-to-be. They resolve that they will go their own way in righteousness, being eclectic in their adoption of the neighbors' practices, suitably adapted to the worship of their one national God.

logical7

I thank you for your reply, but conversation can only be impeded by one-two punches like calling my ideas stupid and then calling me personally a sarcastic name, featuring an inappropriate religious title which demeans my own religion. I did nothing to deserve that attack except to follow the OP's lead on what is actually an uncontroversial point. There is nothing else on the table from you for me to comment upon at this time.

Originally posted by DuecesxGeneral
Honestly, Quran is all right. There is not one line that wrong

Oh dude .. don't get us started. You can start here ...
Scientific Errors in the Qu'ran
Historical Errors in the Qu'ran
... and there is so much more ....

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DuecesxGeneral
Honestly, Quran is all right. There is not one line that wrong

Oh dude .. don't get us started.

You can start here ...
Scientific Errors in the Qu'ran
Historical Errors in the Qu'ran
... and there is so much more ....

The content and opinions of anti-Islamic sites mean nothing Muslims... much like how contents and opinions of anti-Christian websites mean nothing to Christians.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
The content and opinions of anti-Islamic sites mean nothing Muslims...

1 - Truth is truth. The information is correct.
2 - I'm sure that many Muslims don't like to see the truth about their Qu'ran, just as many Christians don't want to know the truth about where the 10 Commandments come from .. or the truth about where the Noahs Ark and Garden of Eden fables come from. But truth is truth.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
The content and opinions of anti-Islamic sites mean nothing Muslims...

1 - Truth is truth. The information is correct.
2 - I'm sure that many Muslims don't like to see the truth about their Qu'ran, just as many Christians don't want to know the truth about where the 10 Commandments come from .. or the truth about where the Noahs Ark and Garden of Eden fables come from. But truth is truth.

Yeah , truth is truth , but it is being induced to you. For you are favorite and others are not. Or maybe you have been worshiping and practicing religion for years that god chose you as his messenger ?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
The content and opinions of anti-Islamic sites mean nothing Muslims...

1 - Truth is truth. The information is correct.
2 - I'm sure that many Muslims don't like to see the truth about their Qu'ran, just as many Christians don't want to know the truth about where the 10 Commandments come from .. or the truth about where the Noahs Ark and Garden of Eden fables come from. But truth is truth.

One scientific error is that Qur'an encourages Human beings and jin to go to space and travel

Another error is how Qur'an explains the formation of stars from gas.

Another one is that it says god has the power to recreate same human beings with exact hand print

Another error is how Qur'an explains the creation of human beings

Another error is how it talks about the power of god which is keeping ocean hot and cold streams from colliding.

Another error is how it says that three gods with same power should take care of their own created.

Another error is that Qur'an explains how god created Jesus pbuh like Adam pbuh.

Another error is that Islam was supposed to be religion for Israelite , but this time it was the whole human beings that was the target of last prophet. This prophet was not supposed to be crucified by them. When some Jews planned to kill Muhammad , god informed him and their corruption exposed one more time.

Another error is that Qur'an was memorized by every Muslims . There was elite people ,but even slaves were able to memorize and keep it from change.

Another error is that Islam doesn't allow Muslims to produce porno , to have same sex marriage , to let women sell their bodies , to let men force women to sell their bodies , to have sex in public , to have sex with animals......

OMG , there were many errors

You opened my eyes.

God bless you and you know I mean it.

reply to post by logical7

Allah lets wrong happen to let the wrongdoers know what they had done so that they don't have any excuse or defense on Judgement day

right , like god planned Eblis to be expelled from heaven.

7:16 he said: "because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! i will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:

No , Eblis thought it was plan of allah because he refused to accept the responsibility.

I am not emotional.

I say Muhammad PBUH was a treasure , we lost him. and others took over his power.

Now , you and the my other friend , scorpion say "Jesus may come back with the savior , the 12th Imam"

So , What is going to happen of we haven't learned from the past and act the same way. Wouldn't we lose him for the last time ?

It is reasonable and horrible possibility.

Nobody will be spared just because they praised the prophet and his family by their tongues and disobeyed the prophet by their actions.

so , that is the power of truth. It can enter every little whole. But god always neglects and let us come back to him.

But it doesn't mean that truth is that we deserve. He is generous , as he is. He is khabir and halim.

Lets just do our part the best and leave the rest to Allah.

Exactly , it is part of our job , and I believe it too. But we should learn from the past. We should start from a point.

Many western powerful people , see the division between Muslims and they create more new divisions to help them conquer easily. But we should stand aware and united to stay strong against these hyenas which have always been circling around the middle eastern Muslim nations.

I do , do believe this sentence of yours " Nobody will be spared just because they praised the prophet and his family by their tongues and disobeyed the prophet by their actions. "

And I hope to be aware and I pray to allah to help me stay aware and compensate for the wrong actions of mine. But I never justify false actions as I don't do it for my own.

God bless you,

I just mean development and unity for Muslims. Peace between nations and a good stack of deeds for resurrection.

God help you and give you strength and light.

Fi amanellah.

The Muslims 150- 200 years after the death of Muhammed CREATED another source of their religion with the Quran, "Hadith and Sunnah", falsely attributed to the prophet Muhammed, and in defiance of the Quran. Today most Muslims have discarded the Quran in favor of Hadith and Sunnah.

I hope now you can have an overview about Islam today .. if you want to know more,? here we go

Shia had been following the leaders which were fortold by Muhammad PBUH. 6th Imam had about 4000 students whcihc were being taught directly and indirectly.

+ Moses had Harun and other prophet as his Wasi (the one who people refer to , but he is not adding anything to the book). He didn't leave Hews for themselves as well as Muhammad PBUH didn't leave us to live under who ever who gets to power.

+ Hadith has been helping us interpret the untold ways in Qur'an to do our prayers and actions like Vozu , pray , Haj and ...... So , hadith is what we have always been referring to , during life of Muhammad PBUH after and until now.

The people who fight against Hadith are the people who want to play the role of Muhammad PBUH , as interpreter .

Or

they want Muslims to be divide and every Muslims follow as he please.

But god told us

3:103 وَاعْتَصِمُواْ بِحَبْلِ اللّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلاَ تَفَرَّقُواْ

and hold fast, all together, by the rope which allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves

We shouldn't get divided.

And Muhammad pbuh told us what to hole after his death in the hadith of Theghalyan.

....

But from what I discovered , you follow the same men that said to Muhammad pbuh :he is a crazy man , he has lost his mind" , when Muhammad pbuh asked his friend to give him a letter and a pen to write something.

You know what the friend replied "the qur'an is enough for us"

After all the corruptions since the death of Muhammad pbuh until now , you choose to walk the same way ?

Originally posted by mideast
One scientific error is that Qur'an encourages Human beings and jin to go to space and travel

There is no such thing as a jinn.

Another error is how Qur'an explains the formation of stars from gas.

Another error ... the sun is smaller than the earth and sets in 'murky waters'
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
Qur'an 18:86

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float along in an orbit. Qur'an 21:33
So the sun orbits around the earth? really?

And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with stars/lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame. Qur'an 67:5
So shooting stars are missiles for the devil? really?

Another one is that it says god has the power to recreate same human beings with exact hand print

People have hand prints. DUH. That's obvious. How exactly is this any kind of scientific revelation? Answer .. it's not. I could go around saying that God made people with blue and brown eyes .. that doesn't mean it's science.

Another error is how Qur'an explains the creation of human beings

Yes, another error. The Quran says humans were created from clay and then it contradicts itself and says humans were created from blod clots.
We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape; Qur'an 15:26
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood: Qur'an 96:2

He is created from a drop emitted .Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs Qur'an 86:6-7
So sperm is made between the backbone and the ribs?? Really?

Another error is how it talks about the power of god which is keeping ocean hot and cold streams from colliding.

You'll have to give an exact quote. I have no idea what that means.
If you are talking about this - Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress Qur'an 55:20
That is incorrect. The seas do indeed eventually merge together and with different, fresher waters.

Another error is how it says that three gods with same power should take care of their own created.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Another error is that Qur'an explains how god created Jesus pbuh like Adam pbuh.

Another error. There was no Adam or Eve.

Another error is that Islam was supposed to be religion for Israelite ,

Big error. The Jews already had their religion. So did the Christians. There was no need for them to adopt Muhammads fiction. All he did was poorly transpose information from those other religions, and from the pagans, and make up his own.

Another error is that Qur'an was memorized by every Muslims .

Irrelevant. Educated and noneducated people memorize things all the time. Songs. Games. Family histories. Bibles. Jewish prayers. Loooooong Hindu prayers. Memorizing fiction means nothing.

Another error is that Islam doesn't allow Muslims to produce porno , to have same sex marriage , to let women sell their bodies , to let men force women to sell their bodies , to have sex in public , to have sex with animals......

Islam treats women like dirt. Islam is homophobic.

OMG , there were many errors

Yes .. many many errors.

And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves Qur'an 16:15

So .. mountains prevent earthquakes?? Um .. no. They are actually made by earthquake fault lines and are either the products of earthquakes and/or are on fault lines.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You are both educated and open mind

Keep up the good work.

Satan in Islamic tradition urge us to stick the ways which our forefathers had told us.

I know it's a hard thing to do, to be agaist the cultural upbringing of the society. our cultaral upringing has established on us a very strong anti machanism to not to accept any alien Idea ,So most of us can not to think out of the box. See Quran (2:170)

[When it is said to them: "Follow what God hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?]

So Quran does not care about Islamic tradition, it urge us to stick to our logic with the right information we gain, and it urges us to not to believe any information unless we verify it on our own.

[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

This means Quran has given the Human beings it's freewill to accept and reject , so let's start..

+ Hadith has been helping us interpret the untold ways in Qur'an to do our prayers and actions like Vozu , pray , Haj and ...... So , hadith is what we have always been referring to , during life of Muhammad PBUH after and until now

.

There are three implications of the Quote above:

1) An implication that challenges God's assertion and a subconscious effort to prove that God is wrong in His repeated assertions that Quran is "Complete", "Perfect" and "Fully Detailed"

2) An implication that Hadith contains the details of Salat and therefore Hadith other than the Quran can be used for religious law.

3 An implication that God is wrong in teaching us in the Quran, that all the rituals of Islam, including Salat were given to Abraham.

The Quran teaches us in many suras that Submission translated (in Arabic "Islam") is the religion of Abraham (2:135, 3:95, 4:125, 6:161 and 22:78). Muhammad was a follower of Abraham, as we learn from 16:123. All religious practices in Submission (Islam) were given to us through Abraham; they include:

1) the five daily Contact Prayers (Salat),
2) the obligatory charity (Zakat),
3) the fasting during Ramadan, and
4) the Hajj Pilgrimage to Mecca.
5) Specifically, we learn from the Quran (21:73) that the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat) were given to Abraham.

Those who are knowledgeable of the Quran know that there are two sources for the religion of Islam (Submission in English).

1) The Quran which is COMPLETE, PERFECT and fully details all religious LAW.

2) Religious practices given to Prophet Abraham and passing on to us generation after generation since the time of Abraham.and (not like written documents, like Bukhari, Muslim, etc..)

While prophet Mohammed has been doing daily prayers five times with all his friends since it is an obligation , how come his friend's children forget it?.

And when Hajj was a community worship,Millions go to mecca to pilgrimage how come people forget it after Mohammed?

So we know it is not the real issue why something call the ''Sunna''existed.

we muslims wanted to attribute something special to prophet Mohammed , so we gave a title call ''sunna'' the ways the prophet Mohammed did everything, or his deeds.

So all the practises which passed on us through generations since the time of Abraham.
attributed to Prophet Mohammed and WE created a two way traffic

First way is (Major worshipping) ( in Arabic ''Farlu''
second way is (Minor worshipping) (in Arabic ''Sunna''

God says to choose only one way .. see 6 : 153

[وَأَنَّ هَـٰذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا السُّبُلَ فَتَفَرَّقَ بِكُمْ عَن سَبِيلِهِ ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ]

[Verily, this is My way, leading straight: follow it: follow not (other) paths: they will scatter you about from His (great) path: thus doth He command you. that ye may be righteous.]

As far as we know Quran came out as spoken words from Prophet Mohammed's mouth, and when he says from his own words ''[Verily, this is My way,

I don't think He is lying!!

All positions of the Contact Prayers are found in the Quran, including the standing position (3:39, 39:9), the bowing and prostration positions (Rukoo' and Sajood) (2:43, 3:43, 9:112, 22:26, 22:77).

Check this out, the same prayer of Muslims performing by an orthodox Jew according to his Forefathers

www.youtube.com...

Numerous verses throughout the Quran inform us that the Contact Prayers were in existence, intact, and practiced before the advent of Muhammad (see for example 8:35 & 9:54).

It is also interesting to know that many of these Muslims who ask the question do not know that, the Hadith and Sunna books do not have enough information about how to perform Salat, the number of Rakaat (units), or what to say in them.

The Hadiths and Sunna books are rather full of contradictory statements.

Countinued ...NOT a single time, was the prophet Muhammad reported as telling the people; let me tell you how to perform your Salat prayers, or let me tell you the number of Rakaat in the prayers.

Had Muhammad willed or was of his duties to teach the community their prayer and the number of Rakaat, he would have done such that, and in the public arena for everyone to witness it. It never happened. Because the Prophet Muhammad and the people before him were given the ways to pray, handed down from Abraham through generations of believers who kept the prayers intact as God promised. God would not have told Muhammad to follow the religion of Abraham if no one knows or practices that religion.

Abraham was the founder of Islam (Submission in English) as we practice it today, and the one who called us "Muslims" (Submitters in English).

[Quran 3:67-68] Abraham was neither Jewish , nor Christian; he was a monotheist; a Muslim; he never was an idol-worshiper. The people most worthy of following Abraham are those who follow him and this prophet (Muhammad), and those who believed. God is the Lord of the believers.

[Quran 16:123] Then we inspired you (O Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, monotheism; never was he an idol-worshiper.

Logically, if Muhammad was a follower of Abraham, and we are followers of Muhammad, then we are followers of Abraham. What did we and Muhammad learn from Abraham ???

The Quran teaches us that we learned ALL THE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES of Islam from Abraham. The whole Arabian society before and during the time of Muhammad had many followers of the religion of Abraham. Thus Abu Lahab, Abu Jahl, and the idolators of Quraish used to observe Salat prayers as we can see in 8:35.

[Quran 8:35] Their SALAT PRAYERS at the shrine were no more than deceit and repulsion. ...

It’s interesting to note that in the third revelation of the Quran (chapter 73), in verse 20, we find the first order from God to observe the contact prayer and the obligatory charity. There were no teachings or details about these two commands in the first or second revelation (chapter 96 and 68). God wouldn’t command us to practice something without any explanation or instructions unless it was already in existence.

In 2:128 we see Abraham and Ismail implore God to teach them "THE RELIGIOUS PRACTICES OF ISLAM"

[Quran 2:127-128] As Abraham raised the foundation of Ka'ba, together with Ismail, they prayed, 'Our Lord, accept this work from us; You are the Hearer, the Omniscient. Our Lord, and make us Muslims (Submitters) to You and from our descendants let there be a nation of Muslims (Submitters) to you; AND TEACH US HOW TO PRACTICE OUR RELIGIOUS DUTIES, and redeem us; You are the Redeemer, the Merciful'

SALAT OBSERVED BEFORE MUHAMMAD.

[Quran 3:43] O Mary (Mariam), you shall obey your Lord, and shall prostrate and bow down with those who bow down.

[Quran 19:31] (Jesus said) God has made me blessed wherever I go, and He commanded me to observe the SALAT PRAYERS and ZAKAT charity for as long as I live.

But the Jews and Christians lost the SALAT PRAYERS, changed it and invented their own.

[Quran 19:59] Generations came thereafter who LOST the SALAT prayers, and pursued their lusts.

If we look in the oldest prayer books for the Jews we can still see their prayers very similar to what the Muslims do today,

Unfortunately, this plain Quranic truth is not accessible by those who keep trying to prove that Quran is not complete.

But the funny thing is today WE Muslims accuse non muslims by saying ''they are trying to prove Quran is imprfect and Quran has so many errors !!

But Really?.. when God says this book is [complete and fully detailed] Look who is talking now?.

THEY STILL INSIST :

Even after showing all this Quranic evidence to those who do not believe God, you will note that they insist on their ways. They may ask you again and after all that ; "Where are the details of SALAT prayers in the Quran" ? Until they decide to believe their Creator in His repeated assertions that the Quran is complete, perfect and fully detailed, they can never see the Quranic truth. This is documented in 6:114 and 10:37

Satan had made Islam: a two way traffic

reply to post by newincubus

1) The Quran which is COMPLETE, PERFECT and fully details all religious LAW.

We agree on many aspects . But in Qur'an 53:3-4 it is said that "

وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى , إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى

And regarding that we believe in what ever Muhammad PBUH says.

And I am eager to hear from you how you could get the details about how to do Vozu , Tayammum , Haj.

There are many details on how we should do that. And it is first time I hear that it is said in Qur'an.

And please answer briefly.

There is another truth regarding Qur'an. Qur'an says in 47:24 افلا يتدبرون القرءان ام علي قلوب اقفالها

will they not then contemplate on the koran? or are there locks upon their hearts!

So , not every one is capable of understanding Qur'an. Even if they connect the verses and memorize it all. That is clear and I have experienced it many times.

You say that you are expert on Qur'an , so you must know that translation is not taking the burden of the same text.

And you are also expert on history.

So , you must remember that Arabs in the time of Muhammad PBUH were not attracted to education and writing. It is claimed that about 17 people were able to write in the time of Muhamad pbuh.

Which means that there was no grammar book on dictionary to translate the meaning for even Arabs.

So , some one should translate and say the meaning of the verses to the people. And that was Muhammad and his family pbut.

I don't know which sect of Islam you are following , but it seems that it is ignoring the history.

But Really?.. when God says this book is [complete and fully detailed] Look who is talking now?.

Saying qur'an is comprehensive , is done according some hadith

But saying that qur'an is not containing error and it is not affected by error is done regarding Qur'an itself.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Hey FF, about the errors you pointed, i'l explain one

He is created from a drop
emitted .Proceeding from between the
backbone and the ribs Qur'an 86:6-7
So sperm is made between the
backbone and the ribs?? Really?

yes, and not just sperm but also the egg.
During embroyological development, the precursors(pair) of testes/ovaries are situated near the ribs and spine in the foetus and then descend down till the pelvis in a female and become ovaries or keep going down and finally out in the scrotum in a male and work as testes.
So yes a drop is emitted from female(egg) and male(semen/sperm) and a baby is 'created'

you are a person of research, (at least great in anti-islamic research)
so you may look at islamic explanation of things that are told as errors to you.
If you are genuinely curious to know explanations about other 'errors' even if its just to refute them, then i'l tell you, just ask
you present an image of yourself that you have already passed judgement on Islam, i hope it just appears that way. I also hope that its not 'just' because Islam denies Christ's divinity.
Everyone thinks they are miraculously born in the right religion while its just the ego appearing to them like its faith. Unless they give each faith an equal chance they are just following their forefathers blindly worshipping idols, making partners with God and playing right into the hand of the satan, it was ego that made satan out of a believer!
(P.S.- a dictum, "anyone who says they don't have an ego, have a Big One")