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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
IMO, this gives a background to the Biblical story of Satan misleading Adam / Eve into eating the fruit. Satan's plan was to mislead mankind, so it explains why Satan decided to deceive somebody just minding their own business, not posing a threat to him, or even being aware of him.
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
Its interesting how you both chose to comment on Islam in general than the OP in specific.
The ones who don't, are just looking for justification for superiority of their faith
The Arabic Bible translates God(Elohim) as Allah, but according to your 'deep' research 'Allah' could be the chief idol!
(Do) you equate unbiased scholarship only to anti islamic scholars?
Will any western scholar that agrees with Islam, be labelled as biased by you?
Originally posted by eight bits
"Western" has nothing to do with the quality of scholarhip. I believe the poster meant "people who speak without fear of being branded on the nose for identifying antecedents of Koranic stories."
Sheikh Scorpion, you mean? Have you read the OP? I have no idea whether Scorpie is qualified to teach Muslims or not. However, he says he is a Muslim, and I take him at his word.
As it happens, I was aware that Islam
is a monotheistic religion. Since you
pretend this would be news to me,
and then call my ideas stupid, I'll end
our conversation here. Feel free to U2U
me when you're prepared to have a serious conversation without cheap
shots and name calling.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by ollncasino
The problem with the Satanic verses, for Muslims, is that if Muhammad was fooled by verses from the devil pretending to be messages from Allah, how many verses in the Koran could perhaps not be from Allah but rather from the devil?
Considering how many verses in the Qu'ran contradict first hand Sacred Scripture it could be that a whole lot were not from God but rather from the devil! Either that, or Muhammad just transposed them very, very poorly from the original sources. Or he did the poor transposing on purpose to fit an agenda - which would have been an evil act and inspired by the devil. Or perhaps it was a bit of all three of those. Who knows ...
Corselle (An Intellectual – translated the Qur’an)
"The Qur’an is the most perfect and excellent work of the Arabic. This miraculous work cannot be introduced by mankind. The Qur’an itself is an enduring miracle and such a miracle that it is more supreme than resurrecting dead bodies. "This holy book itself is enough to prove that it is originally heavenly. Enlightening the Arabian bare and barren deserts, and defying poets and preachers, the Qur’an insisted for an equivalent of a verse of the Quran but there has been no one paying in kind."
Goethe (a German Litterateur)
"That is a book that’s been attracting, marvelling and amazing us to kneel in front lately within a short period of time. The Qur’an’s style is such strong, supreme and magnificent in accordance with its content and purpose. This book will remain as the most influent book for eras."
Mr John Davenport (An Author – A Thinker)
"Especially two of the Qur’an’s numerous traits are extremely important: The loftiness of the harmony in the Qur’an’s verses expressing Allah (swt) who is the owner of the omnipotence and the greatness. The Qur’an Al- Kareem is totally far from attributing human weakness to Allah. From the beginning to the end the Qur’an is totally unfettered from ideas, sentences and stories that are non- eloquent, non-ethics or opposite to good manners. However there are many of all these flaws in the Bible that is in the hand of Christian world and has been falsified."
Edward Gibbon (a British Historian and Educator)
"The Qur’an is the strongest evidence of the oneness of Allah (swt). Having a philosophical encephalon and faith to the oneness of Allah, one will show no hesitation to accept a point that Islam gives into consideration. Islam is maybe a religion much more supreme than we think today."
Thomas Carlyle (A Famous British Thinker)
"Once you read the Qur’an carefully, you’ll realize its emerging unique features. The Qur’an’s own beauty is totally distinguished from other literary works, is unique. One of distinguishing features of the Qur’an is that It has not been falsified. In my opinion and conclusion, the Qur’an is full of truth and sincerity from
the beginning to the end. The Prophet Muhammad’s (saw) invitation to the world is truth."
Now, how about yours? What did the words you wrote have to do with the story of Satan in the Islamic tradition?
you mean comment and criticize every religion and waste his time? Ya then sure, its your time.
I am an atheist. As I am sure you'll
agree, only an atheist is rationally
qualified to discuss religion.
No, I think it is perfectly natural that
the Arabic Bible translates God as
Allah. And it proves my point.
Islamic scholars, on the other hand, start from the
assumption that the Koran is a
document dictated by God. What
objectivity can be hoped for after that?
Originally posted by logical7
"The Qur’an is the most perfect and excellent work of the Arabic.
you should read it and maybe then your opinions wouldn't be so ignorant.
my response was an attempt to discourage any future posters from drifting and trolling but as i said, if they do, they'l get their reply.
you mean comment and criticize every religion and waste his time?
Unless you prove that the word iblis only started to be used after greek contact. The arabs were very proud of their language and dint borrow words from outside (now its different due to globalisation)
that same document asks the believers to speak the truth and they would be accountable.
How about christian scholar criticizing Islam? Wouldnt he be biased against Islam?
The story of Satan in Islamic tradition
قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَى وَمَن يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَّزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ
say: i do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, we give him more of good therein; surely allah is forgiving, grateful
I'm posting facts and they aren't ignorant. Maybe you should accept the truth .. that the Qu'ran is just 'borrowed' from the other religions and very poorly transcribed. Then YOUR opinions wouldn't be so ignorant.
I’m curious though, in regards to your OP, what is the Islamic (or your own) perspective of Genesis 3, verses 14-15… specifically verse 15 in particular.
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring[a] and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
(Allâh) said: "Get down, one of you an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa (Eve), and Shaitân (Satan), etc.]. On earth will be a dwellingplace for you and an enjoyment, - for a time." (Al-A'raf 7:24)
Then We said: "O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you be distressed in misery. (Ta-Ha 20:117)
(Allâh) said:"Get you down (from the Paradise to the earth), both of you, together, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then if there comes to you guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery. (Ta-Ha 20:123)
Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by mideast
Walekum Assalam wa Rehmatullah.
Mideast i did not get your points. What are you trying to say? Anything wrong in the idea of iblis in the OP?
I am an atheist. As I am sure you'll agree, only an atheist is rationally qualified to discuss religion.
No. The point is that Western scholarship accepts no claims of supernatural authority. Even in the case of the Bible, it has not done so among academics since the nineteenth century at least. Islamic scholars, on the other hand, start from the assumption that the Koran is a document dictated by God. What objectivity can be hoped for after that?
Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by mideast
I can understand your disagreements with the Caliphs as we both have different ideas that started as a political divide after death of prophet Muhammad pbuh.
To overcome that, we should support whoever is right and not show favour to our own group or ideas especially if they do wrong or anything against the Qur'anic teachings.
Allah should be on our mind and not any past hatred or blind loyalty to any group.
The later caliphs after Ali(r.a) were nothing more than kings and did many wrongs.
Allah had decreed it that way and its the past and nobody will be spared on Judgement day.