Ancient Egyptian concept of the soul

How did they come to know all this stuff? Did they just decide to get super creative or was there access for them granted by a higher power?

The ancient Egyptians believed that a human soul was made up of five parts: the Ren, the Ba, the Ka, the Sheut, and the Ib.

Click here for all the info

reply to post by Foobler


Meditation, peace and understanding the laws of creation. No one knows for sure who built the Pyramids, but biblical texts states that they had a slave system. Magick in the "New Age" movement stretches back to Egypt. I can tell you that they most definitely had knowledge of interdimentional travel (Astral Projection) and of the stargates. Look it up, in "modern" occult, astral projecting during certain star alignments granted them access into other realms. It makes sense, since they didn't have spaceships, and even if they did, spaceships could only go so far in ones lifetime. I have read that many stargates have closed due to our wars and violence on this planet. Many of the peaceful realms are no longer available to us, only the lower ones. Now black magicians would rather not focus on this reality to make peace and jump straight to contact with darker beings, such as the greys and reptilians.

The Law of One - Akhenaten

firstly, to the poster above... there is much more to akhenaten than monotheism.. if indeed, that was an issue!

to the op
its not really that complicated

Ib - is the heart...the only organ left in the body after mummification...the seat of consiousness.

sheut - is ones shadow...

ren - is ones name


these three are in the material world and dont need explaining

the other two are not

now the Ka and Ba... i will use the king as reference, as most afterlife texts are found in kings tombs

the king when dead, would have a part of his soul already in the heavens... this would be his KA

another part of his soul, would go on a journey, to reunite with his Ka... the journey is seen as an underworld journey,
the ba was seen as a bird taken flight, or seen as the king sharing the boat of the gods with the dead sun....

the ba finally unites with the Ka... in the akhet/horizon....to create an akh.... a glorified light spirit seen as a rising sun.

its only the ba and ka that need further reading... but the five parts mentioned are only noticable because they were important in rituals... in the religion of the dead

peace

I could make a Lb of Sheut Ka Ba for supper tomorrow night. I know sick joke

reply to post by Foobler


The user ThePharaoh pointed it out pretty well already.

The ancients didn't have a working knowledge of the nervous system, or electric impulses, which means they couldn't have understood that the brain is the organ responsible for keeping us alive. They only knew that the heart muscle, the Ib, kept them breathing, and thus living. Since the heart had such a seemingly-apparent importance, they assumed it must keep track of memories, thoughts, and emotions as well. Again, not knowing about the brain's importance.

The Ren and Sheut were, likewise, visible but intangible elements of the person. A name, like any other word of power, was believed to have governance over the individual upon whom it was bestowed. The shadow, similarly, was believed to be individually attached to the individual whom it followed. Which is why these two things were believed to have had immense importance over the individual.

The Ka was believed to be all of the vital life functions which a living being performed: breathing, eating, sleeping, and the like. It was also thought to be magical, spectral, and ethereal so it could manifest as a "ghost," or appear in dreams, or become a star in the Heavens, and so on. It was the closest thing to the Christian concept of a soul, which I have no problem believed was adopted from Egyptian practice. This belief, of course, stemming from people's dreams, where they thought they saw their deceased loved ones again. Since dreams were believed to be the human accessing another world, it made sense that any dead seen there must have had some kind of "spirit-form" which continued to exist.

The Ba, by the same token, was representative of everything which the dead was never seen to be doing when encountered in dreams, trances, or spirit-visions: having a physical body, holding grudges, etc. So a dichotomy of Ka/Ba developed where one was the excess left behind during death, and the other the pure form of the dead. If both could be reunited, then the deceased would live again, wholly, in the Fields of Osiris, or the Afterlife.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I don't mean any disrespect to you at all but I think when you write of what they did or did not know in the past - you make assumptions based on the best knowledge we have available right now - the best knowledge mainstream anthropology and history will provide us or does NOT provide us at this time. I have come to believe we may have NO idea of what they actually did know. I think for religious dogma and our own ethnocentric views we tend to stay safe and assume they did not have the advanced knowledge that we are so lucky to have and seem to discount in others that may have been earlier, much much earlier on this life walk then us. I think in truth, the reality of what they understood is just not currently grasped by us modern humans.

Here's a good video I found that explores other aspects of their understanding of the soul

reply to post by LittleBirdSaid

I don't mean any disrespect to you at all

None taken.

I think when you write of what they did or did not know in the past - you make assumptions based on the best knowledge we have available right now - the best knowledge mainstream anthropology and history will provide us or does NOT provide us at this time. I have come to believe we may have NO idea of what they actually did know.

This is where we disagree.

Archaeologists have cracked the Egyptian Hieroglyphic language, we can literally read their holy books, word-for-word almost, to see exactly what their worldview was. There are no leaps-of-faith involved, or any type of hypothetical supposition. The Book of Coming Forth By Day has been translated, as have the Pyramid Texts, and numerous other works including lamentations, hymns, letters, poetry, and royal documents. We've clearly figured out the Hieroglyphic language, there's even a two-volume dictionary which presents nearly every pictograph archaeologists have uncovered, and the list of meanings which it has been known to represent.

We've even cracked the code on who their deities were too, including what type of theocracy they accepted, and when. For example:

During the Early Dynastic Period, the Old Kingdom, and the Pyramid Era (3000 bce - 1900 bce) Egypt was a pure Polytheism, with belief in many, individual, independent deities—who occasionally formed a pantheon, like the Ennead or Ogdoad, depending on the ruling class—but were traditionally seen as autonomous individuals with their own machinations. The most commonly known deity-figures from this period are the triple sun-god Khepra-Rē-Atum worshiped in Heliopolis (2600 bce - 1900 bce), and the Ennead extending from him, which includes Osiris, Isis, Set, and Horus on whom so much mythology has been based..

During the New Kingdom (1500 bce - 700 bce) Egypt was considered Henotheistic, and under the auspices of the All-Father, Amun, who merged with the more ancient sun-god Khepra-Rē-Atum to become Amun-Rē, whom all other Egyptian deities were believed to be emanations of. This type of "all gods are aspects of one God" belief became very popular with the Greek philosophers when they discovered Egyptian culture. It also served to unite the Egyptian people in a common worship which was designed by the Priests of Amun, but also slowly corrupted causing their power to rival that of the Pharaoh, which lead to the next type of theocracy Egypt employed.

During the reign of Akhenaten (1379 bce - 1362 bce) Egypt was monotheistic, forcibly worshiping the Aten while the remainder of the polytheistic figures were cast by the wayside... or, so the story says. Despite Akhenaten's quest to weaken the power of the Priestly Cast (who worshiped Amun-Rē) by introducing an even more powerful "All-Father," whom loved the Pharaoh instead of the priests, the Egyptian people continued to practice their own cultic worship to figures like Bast, Horus, Thoth, and Knum regardless of what the Pharaoh commanded. The earliest evidence of Atenism comes from Amenhotep II during his reign (1427 bce - 1401 bce) before Akhenaten adopted it.

So, you see, Egyptian culture is very well understood. Their beliefs, their values, their language, their texts, everything. We know when they lived, what they ate, how their economy was structured, who their leaders were, what the people believed, what the priests believed, and what the Pharaoh believed, and so much more.

It is no stretch of the imagination for archaeology to assume that if Egypt had knowledge of brain chemistry, the nervous system, electrical impulses, or how the body worked, they would have recorded it down somewhere, and we would have found it by now.

Egypt was an astounding culture. Even more astounding when you don't clutter their resume with assumed accomplishments. Building the pyramids, carving their massive monuments, establishing a 3000 year dominion along a single river, the use of copper and sand as saws, and so many other marvellous things are enough for Egypt to stand on its own.

Don't sully their already-good name with additional unsubstantiated suppositions.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe

The Ka was believed to be all of the vital life functions which a living being performed: breathing, eating, sleeping, and the like. It was also thought to be magical, spectral, and ethereal so it could manifest as a "ghost," or appear in dreams, or become a star in the Heavens, and so on. It was the closest thing to the Christian concept of a soul, which I have no problem believed was adopted from Egyptian practice. This belief, of course, stemming from people's dreams, where they thought they saw their deceased loved ones again. Since dreams were believed to be the human accessing another world, it made sense that any dead seen there must have had some kind of "spirit-form" which continued to exist.

The Ba, by the same token, was representative of everything which the dead was never seen to be doing when encountered in dreams, trances, or spirit-visions: having a physical body, holding grudges, etc. So a dichotomy of Ka/Ba developed where one was the excess left behind during death, and the other the pure form of the dead. If both could be reunited, then the deceased would live again, wholly, in the Fields of Osiris, or the Afterlife.

~ Wandering Scribe

This is pretty good. I can see the idea of the dream "visit" (which is what might be the interpretation of experiencing a moment with a dead loved one in a dream) at least reinforcing the life after death notion, if not initiating the concept all by itself. That's not bad at all. I'll have to do some looking into that idea. That said, I'm really REALLY hoping to not find that to be enough in itself to completely explain the counterintuitive belief in an afterlife emerging as central to what it means to be human within this material realm.

I'd rather not have that comfort yanked on me, but if that's where the evidence leads, then...

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


The early stone age people performed brain surgery, to the point where they drilled holes in the patients skull. The edges of the holes suggests that the patient lived and healed after the operation. The stone age people never carved their knowledge into rocks. But they still did it.

Just because there's no books/papyrus about the brain from ancient Egypt doesn't mean there wasn't ever one;

The Library at Alexandria was in charge of collecting all the world's knowledge,

Originally posted by Foobler
How did they come to know all this stuff? Did they just decide to get super creative or was there access for them granted by a higher power?

The ancient Egyptians believed that a human soul was made up of five parts: the Ren, the Ba, the Ka, the Sheut, and the Ib.

Click here for all the info

It must have started with someone from the material to the immaterial. Otherwise higher powers have instructed humanity from very early on and obviously either something went wrong or the higher powers are just plain evil.

More likely it was all imported from previous civilizations, might have been one single family at some time in the ancient past who have had access first of all humans but decided to use it for themselves and prevent others from learning so they could meet those higher powers. Each time the people were about to find out they destroyed the civilization and used a few slaves to establish themselves elsewhere. Those slaves no doubt were in the advantage with higher powers on their side.

Egypt like many other civilizations has the same system of a supreme ruler, nobles which were directly related and everybody else were only slaves, reading and writing and learning the important stuff was only for a few and very intertwined with religion so anyone getting too intelligent and feeling oppressed would either be noticed by the religious authorities (pharaoh) or would come to believe the pharaoh is a person which can never be surpassed in power, or defeated by which the slaves could be free.

reply to post by LLinx

The early stone age people performed brain surgery, to the point where they drilled holes in the patients skull. The edges of the holes suggests that the patient lived and healed after the operation. The stone age people never carved their knowledge into rocks. But they still did it.

It's called trepanation, and it's not brain surgery. Surgery involves carefully performed surgical procedures. Trepanation is done by taking a sharp object—like a stone, or a spear—and puncturing the skull with brute force. Additionally, our ancestors were not doing it as a surgical, or even medical pursuit. Trepanation was done then, as it was during the 70s, and is still now, as a spiritual experience. When you make the hole it causes the blood flow and oxygen levels in the brain to alter. This causes the individual to have more spiritual experiences. Trepanation was a cultic process, just as later castration, and the removal of foreskins were. It was anything but surgery.

Just because there's no books/papyrus about the brain from ancient Egypt doesn't mean there wasn't ever one

Egyptian records exist on more than just papyri. Every temple, tomb, Pyramid, sculpture, and artifact in Egypt contains hieroglyphics somewhere on its surface. This is because the Egyptians believed that the pictographs they used were more than just "letters," they thought they were sentient, living forces unto themselves.

So, no, the lack of papyri featuring detailed explanations of brain chemistry and neurological principles does not mean the evidence was "probably destroyed," as you seem to believe. If the Egyptian people did understand the importance of the brain, then their temples, tombs, sculptures, Pyramids, and papyri would have been filled with references to the brain and its importance.

Instead, we have copious amounts of references to the heart being the center of consciousness, the home of the personality, and the seat of the soul. In fact, in Egyptian mythology all over the place there's even references to supreme god's "feeling" something "in their heart" and then "making it so." The best example of this being the Memphite creator-god, Ptah, who willed things into being with his heart, and spoke them into existence with his tongue.

It was the heart, not the brain, which was important to the Egyptians. In fact, after pulling the brain out through the nostril with a hooked instrument, they dissolved it in water and discarded it. Obviously because the brain was not important to their practices.

The Library at Alexandria was in charge of collecting all the world's knowledge,

Seriously?
Why a library would be a good source on egyptian knowledge ? Perhaps because egyptians had a understanding of knowledge that we strive to explain even today ? example goes The pyramids, The precisions involved in getting it right.. How to move the weight, the usage of it, etc.

Ptolemy was Greek, and therefor the library could not contain Egyptian culture ?

From wiki:
The Library at Alexandria was in charge of collecting all the world's knowledge, and most of the staff was occupied with the task of translating works onto papyrus paper ...

Would not that include any other source that had knowledge on the brain ?

As a research institution, the library filled its stacks with new works in mathematics, astronomy, physics, natural sciences and other subjects.

Notice physics. I don't see why they would have ignored it (the brain as a subject). Theres a bigger chance of the knowledge having been stolen, and replaced, to make the Egyptians look like a religious bunch, not a scientific bunch.

Theres still a lot of ancient information being kept from us, from the Giza plateau. They spend decades upon decades to do the simplest progress down there... I have given up finding new stuff on the subject...

Wiki:
It is now impossible to determine the collection's size in any era with any certainty.

Im not going against the notion that they had names for parts of the soul and the brain is not one of them. But I do believe its a subject the ancients would had invested some efford in understanding, since they took upon themselves to study stars and other epic quests.


As for your reply; The holes in the skulls were drilled - not punctuated; Scraping is not in any way "puncturing the skull with brute force."
From Wiki:
Trepanning, also known as trephination, trephining or making a burr hole, is a surgical intervention in which a hole is drilled or scraped into the human skull, exposing the dura mater to treat health problems related to intracranial diseases. It may also refer to any "burr" hole created through other body surfaces, including nail beds. It is often used to relieve pressure beneath a surface. A trephine is an instrument used for cutting out a round piece of skull bone.

Evidence of trepanation has been found in prehistoric human remains from Neolithic times onward. Cave paintings indicate that people believed the practice would cure epileptic seizures, migraines, and mental disorders.[1] The bone that was trepanned was kept by the prehistoric people and may have been worn as a charm to keep evil spirits away. Evidence also suggests that trepanation was primitive emergency surgery after head wounds[2] to remove shattered bits of bone from a fractured skull and clean out the blood that often pools under the skull after a blow to the head. Such injuries were typical for primitive weaponry such as slings and war clubs.[3]



Still think the Egyptians just IGNORED the brain in any circumstances ? Didn't they go a lot to war during the dynasties ? Oh thats right they knocked holes in their head to get high :.. Don't you think they had stuff that was a BIT less dangerous than having to knock a hole in yer head, to get intoxicated ? or?

I do believe as you suggested, that the scrolls on the subject has been stolen or destroyed... It just makes more sense than them never having cared about studying the brain.