Another School. Another Teacher. This time it's Nazi's. I hate nazi's.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


What finally sold me on home school was when my son was acting up in 1st grade, 3 years ago. The teacher, the principal both recommended pharmaceuticals. I countered with more work.

They stated that he would then be ahead of the class and that it wouldn't be fair.

I then politely told them to go to hell.

And this was in Utah! You can't get any more conservative than that!

Now I'm moving to a very liberal state.

I won't jeopardize my childs education to a liberal propaganda machine.

reply to post by beezzer

I won't jeopardize my childs education to a liberal propaganda machine.

I want to post a face palm

instead I'll just say - bona fortuna beezzer

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I appreciate the restraint.

reply to post by beezzer



Really "liberal" assignment, hey?

Don't worry. If the word was "Zionist' though, he might have gotten away with it.

reply to post by beezzer


My college professor gave us an an assignment on critical thinking using a water tower. Half the class had to fight for reasons that the ugly water tower could be side stepped by pumping water from a nearby town and half the class had to fight that it would be less expensive to erect one inside the town.

A critical thinking assignment doesn't have to teach hatred unless you want to count the people who hated the darn water tower.

Originally posted by StarsInDust
reply to post by beezzer

 

My college professor gave us an an assignment on critical thinking using a water tower. Half the class had to fight for reasons that the ugly water tower could be side stepped by pumping water from a nearby town and half the class had to fight that it would be less expensive to erect one inside the town.

A critical thinking assignment doesn't have to teach hatred unless you want to count the people who hated the darn water tower.

edit on 13-4-2013 by StarsInDust because: (no reason given)

A brilliant point! thank you for providing it!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Do you understand what propaganda actually is?
The lesson was in propaganda and outside of the super light version found regularly in advertising propaganda is never going to be a part of something that isn't charged and fraught with tension. That's part of the point.
The idea behind any lesson that teaches children about propaganda is to understand how it is constructed. It is to see how there must be certain actual or generally accepted truth littered throughout what is otherwise a bunch of (usually hateful) lies.
So, the teacher was teaching them the critical thinking skill of understanding propaganda. Since the definition of propaganda includes the ideas of lies and half truths that means that he was NOT teaching them that Jews are evil. He was asking them to LIE and use/create propaganda appropriate to the time and historical context.

I

reply to post by beezzer


The posted example of a water tower is argument but is not specifically propaganda.
The lesson was propaganda.

Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by beezzer

 

The posted example of a water tower is argument but is not specifically propaganda.
The lesson was propaganda.

And the teacher failed in that lesson.

A grade of F is appropriate to the teacher for being a dumbass.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

What finally sold me on home school was when my son was acting up in 1st grade, 3 years ago. The teacher, the principal both recommended pharmaceuticals. I countered with more work.

...

And this was in Utah! You can't get any more conservative than that!

If this happened you should have reported them. By Federal Law school staff are not allowed to recommend medication. I hear all the time that people are done with schools over things like this and that this is what is wrong with the Public School System. Maybe parents, if they face this situation, should bring it to the attention of the appropriate people so that the law can be enforced.
Or maybe (not necessarily you) some people who say things like this are using half truths to push an agenda -- dismantling the public school system. Hey, that's propaganda - why don't our kids know about propaganda?? Somebody should teach some kind of lesson showing how using half truths and lies can cause harm. If only there was a really clear example of sometime when that happened....Oh! Wait....

I wouldn't have chosen that kind of a lesson myself. It is too controvertial, a teacher should not be stirring up the elderly people of this country with school projects like this. That kind of conflicting philosophy should be avoided as it tends to pit people against others.

I give the teacher an F also for stupidity Maybe it should be an S. I can't see this as being good propaganda or conditioning. I know what the teacher was trying to do but his choice of subject was extremely bad.

I'm not surprised that some students refused to do the exercise. The subject matter is simply too sensitive for any but the most adamantly self-proclaimed progressives. All in the name of 'critical thinking', the meaning of which to this day I don't get. (I say either you're willing to agree with something or you're not.)

It's amusing, the implication that people have to be taught to comprehend erroneous logic. I guess thinking up a curriculum involving being MORE logical would be too much work. So, instead, let's play 'pretend Nazi!'

Originally posted by watcher3339
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Do you understand what propaganda actually is?
The lesson was in propaganda and outside of the super light version found regularly in advertising propaganda is never going to be a part of something that isn't charged and fraught with tension. That's part of the point.
The idea behind any lesson that teaches children about propaganda is to understand how it is constructed. It is to see how there must be certain actual or generally accepted truth littered throughout what is otherwise a bunch of (usually hateful) lies.
So, the teacher was teaching them the critical thinking skill of understanding propaganda. Since the definition of propaganda includes the ideas of lies and half truths that means that he was NOT teaching them that Jews are evil. He was asking them to LIE and use/create propaganda appropriate to the time and historical context.

I

Excellent

He was asking them to lie - and empathize

He was asking them to demonstrate their loyalty and justify their existence - which is the same situation many average citizens in Germany were facing at that time

So interesting...we live in a time and place now where fingers are being pointed, patriotism questioned - the economy is tanking, we're at war and being threatened on all sides by dangerous people - who for some reason are never quite dangerous enough - so a little extra advertising can't hurt. People can be taught to hate - and coaxed into saying and doing the most inexplicable things

I don't think that was an ordinary lesson

He was an idiot for saying that the Jews were evil. But there are a few historians that would argue that he was right when he stated that Jews were responsible for some of the Germans economic woes. Mainly due to the world wide economics boycott they placed on Germany.

THE JEWS DECLARE WAR ON GERMANY (1933).

"Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here. It is not sufficient that you should buy no goods made in Germany. You must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronises German ships or shipping.... we will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends." - Samuel Undermeyer, in a Radio Broadcast on WABC, New York, August 6, 1933. Reported in the New York Times, August 7, 1933.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

There are numerous ways to develop critical thinking skills. But is this teaching skills or is it teaching something more sinister?

Good question.
Perhaps they should have tried asking the children to justify the Crusades.
And have them try and make sense out of a religion that preaches "thou shalt not kill",butchering millions.
Just my 2 cents.
~Cheers~

Originally posted by EllaMarina
I'm not surprised that some students refused to do the exercise. The subject matter is simply too sensitive for any but the most adamantly self-proclaimed progressives. All in the name of 'critical thinking', the meaning of which to this day I don't get. (I say either you're willing to agree with something or you're not.)

It's amusing, the implication that people have to be taught to comprehend erroneous logic. I guess thinking up a curriculum involving being MORE logical would be too much work. So, instead, let's play 'pretend Nazi!'

edit on 13-4-2013 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)

The subject matter is simply too sensitive. lol really my grandfather fought in world war two and has passed away already. The world war two people are dwindling down fast at what point is it ok to openly discuss topics 10 years after it happens 20 years ok 50 years? the war ended for Germany April 29 1945 so children born on that date are already 68 years old. I remember the subject in school they leave out everything that would have made sense. Germany just started blaming the jew's for everything then began killing them off is what people who don't question history would come away with and its non sense

What's interesting is, this assignment which makes students look at the opposing sides views and reasons is wrong, hateful, evil, stupid, yet it is perfectly fine to teach 11 year olds about 6 million people getting gassed and shot, and showing dead bodies to them.

"oh, but it happened..." Seems to be what the response would be. So what, it's also true the opposing side had their reasons.

child sex slavery happened (happens) but we don't show 11 year olds this kind of information.

And of course, there is certain information, banned in over a dozen European countries, that we won't even allow adults to learn about. Hmm...

If an underlying lesson is "mass murder is justified for reasons that warrant pointing out for posterity", then that should be made clear.

I'm hardly a faint-hearted pearl-clutching prude when it comes to discussing dark periods in the past of the world. I just don't really see a point. To prevent history from being repeated?

reply to post by EllaMarina


hitler was an anti-semite. He was also an anti-smoker.

If the assignment had been to demonstrate their loyalty to the state by explaining "the evilness of smokers", would anyone had thought twice about it?

Or would it have been a "politically correct" assignment.

Tired of Control Freaks

I don't buy this "the subject is just way too sensitive" crap. Our kids are way smarter than we give them credit for. They know the issues. I would venture to guess that kids these days know way more about political and social science due to the increased exposure through multimedia these days.

I love how many people complain that were are becoming too soft on children. People complain that we can't "beat" children these days saying such things as "I got the belt, I turned out fine" and "Spare the rod, spoil the children", but when it comes to taking about sensitive subjects, we go "Oh gee, someone might be sensitive to the subject".

I am only the second generation born into a primarily German family here in the US. I had relatives that fought for the Americans, the Germans, and the Russians. (If you are wondering why the Russian side, look up Black Sea Germans") Even though my family was split by it, not one of them questioned their reasoning for backing each side. I had family that fought for the Germans not because it was the right thing to do, but it was a choice between the fathers of the family sacrificing their lives in a war that didn't believe in or that those fathers and their families get shipped to the concentration camps. Those in the Ukraine were their for work and unfortunately they also had a choice, fight for one dictator or the other. They trusted the devil they know vs the devil they didn't.

The point is that after being included into family discussions when I was younger did not scar me, it cultivated me, it made me grow. Discussions like those made me realize that most decisions are not easy or black or white. I would much rather have my daughter discuss these issues early in life, rather than waiting until after high school.

These type of assignments are what makes behavioral analysts, advertising experts, political advisers, , detectives, writers, actors, salesmen, managers, leaders, teachers, etc. etc. Any profession that could benefit from the ability to be able to walk in another person's shoes or see something from the perspective of another person is invaluable.

Aristotle once said "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." If we truly want our future generations to be better off than us then we must be able let these subjects be discussed.

Though I do agree it could have been done in a better way, this is not some kind of crazy indoctrination for some evil world agenda. Its our children gaining understanding of events that happened in the past in hopes that it will never happen again..