Another School. Another Teacher. This time it's Nazi's. I hate nazi's.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I agree, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle

No one is saying they have to believe that Jews were the cause of Germany's woes. While this statement is distasteful, people are asked to do things everyday they may not personally agree with and yet they still must have the critical reasoning and writing skills to complete their assignment.

Originally posted by th3dudeabides
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I agree, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle

No one is saying they have to believe that Jews were the cause of Germany's woes. While this statement is distasteful, people are asked to do things everyday they may not personally agree with and yet they still must have the critical reasoning and writing skills to complete their assignment.

So would you agree if the countries and races were changed? Let's say Early America and black people? Or is this racism tolerated in the name of academia just against those pesky Jews?

reply to post by th3dudeabides


Hating Nazi's...isn't that just a bit redundant? Certainly not worth mentioning.

Our school did a debate on gay marriage for and against. The against side literally had nothing to present.

Before they enter public school, it is the DUTY of EVERY PARENT
To make their child thoroughly incorigable...................
This has been aparent for a long time people......

Originally posted by Turq1
reply to post by th3dudeabides

 

Hating Nazi's...isn't that just a bit redundant? Certainly not worth mentioning.

Our school did a debate on gay marriage for and against. The against side literally had nothing to present.

So... Did the against side fail? If they did their homework, they could find an argument. Whether its valid in the real world doesn't seem to have any bearing on real people, so why should it hamper that debate?

reply to post by CrikeyMagnet


Yeah its funny how the Jewish thing is more sensitive than any other race or group on the planet.

I mean its even becoming acceptable for whites to drop the N-bomb in certain contexts. But tell a Jew joke or call someone one when they are being cheap. Wow. The backlash is intense sometimes.

For example, a kid spraypaints a penis on the side of a building, gets charged with mischief. Spraypaints a swastika(which is just a symbol and means nothing anti-semitic)? Charged with a hate crime. Its out of hand.

It is my understanding that what they were actually learning about was Propaganda which is a component of the make it or break it standardized testing. Nazi propaganda is one of the few areas of propaganda in which the PC police haven't run out and said "hey, wait --that's not propaganda it's just a point of few and everyone is entitled to one". So, while the subject matter is sensitive (isn't anything that actually matters) there is real validity to the assignment. I think that perhaps (and who knows, maybe it was) there should have been a great deal of discussion about why this assignment was sensitive and an, of course there had to be a strong historical context provided.

I am not going to say that this assignment was perfect - and even if it was done as well as possible for this assignment to be done it would still be touchy. But, Propaganda by definition is saying things that are not necessarily true to bring people to your point of view. If you want kids to be able to recognize it you need to expose them to "known examples" and in a moral and culturally relativistic world the Nazis are one of the last agreed upon "known examples".

Successfully done this assignment would have helped to create students who would grow to adults who questioned what they were told and did their own thinking.

Should we be concerned about the assignment or the backlash against it?

reply to post by beezzer

What the hell, people! We have; MSNBC saying your kids don't belong to you. Kids bringing home assignments about trading freedom for security. Now Nazi's.

Hey bunnyboy,
I think what we're seeing here is a bit of manufactured outrage. The story on the MSNBC reporters commentary was a willful choice to interpret what she said in a nefarious manner. The freedom for security story... I haven't seen less emotional reports on, yet. And this latest...

High school students are not too young to engage in critical though/debate assignments even ones that are so 'taboo'. In fact, as much as I hate the subject, I think it's a good thing to learn about all sides of history... all sides of any issue really.

There's a far Right Wing agenda at play here, to demonize teachers, to demonize public schools, to assert that there's some social engineering going on that there simply isn't. Why? ALEC, Americans for Prosperity and a few other groups are writing local legislation and pushing to re-segregate public schools, have creationism and climate denialism taught in classrooms. There's your indoctrination.

The assignment told students ‘You must argue that Jews are evil.’ They were given five paragraphs to argue that Jews were the source of Germany’s problems.

Yeah well here is some "critical thinking".

So what if the "assignment" told students "You must argue Muslims are evil" and we given 5 paragraphs to argue that muslims were the source of America's problems.

How many people would stand for that?

reply to post by neo96


What difference does it make? The point of the assignment is to look at the side of an issue that you are opposed to and argue for it.

reply to post by Kali74


An assignment arguing for events that lead up to the persecution and mass murder of the Jews.

What possible lesson is learned from that?

reply to post by neo96


Not much of one if we can't ask questions, examine deeper than 'Hitler and the Nazi's were evil'... that's a given, doesn't need to be taught even. But, how did they become so powerful? How did they get a whole nation to turn on type of citizen? How did it then go beyond their own borders? What made them so effective? It would be nice if things were as simple as you think they are... 'that's good, that's bad'.

I'd rather not wrap my childs brain in bubble wrap, I want him to be able to think, not just accept things at face value. I've taught him right from wrong, he and I play devils advocate with each other all the time. For example, I'll use your favorite topic of late... guns. After Newtown my 13 year old boy and I both watched the several news stories, we both cried and both got angry that this situation could happen, that there could be a person capable of doing something so horrific.

After a few days he said to me on the way to school, that guns should be against the law. I could have left it that, I could have not encouraged him to think deeper about it... but I didn't so I asked him why he thought guns should be illegal. He said Newtown wouldn't have happened if guns were illegal. So I asked him how do people get illegal drugs if they're illegal, he answered that they buy them from drug dealers. I said exactly and we left it off there for a few days. He still doesn't like guns, neither do I but he understands now that outlawing them isn't the answer.

He isn't always going to discuss issues with me, I can't follow him wherever he goes to make sure he thinks about things before making decisions or drawing conclusions. He has to be encouraged to think for himself and not just react, education should foster this as well.

reply to post by Kali74


It was a ENGLISH class others want to be fine with propaganda being taught in schools I am not.

Everyone should have problems.

reply to post by neo96


How is it teaching propaganda to learn not to accept things at face value, to think before forming an opinion?

reply to post by Kali74


We don't know what the point was, as of yet.

It may have been a poorly thought out assignment or indoctrination.

We don't know yet.

Basically, I'm shocked by the whole deal. But it solidifies my assertion that my youngest will be home schooled.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by neo96

 

How is it teaching propaganda to learn not to accept things at face value, to think before forming an opinion?

Seems a third of a class passed with flying colors as their refusal to accept that "assignment".

reply to post by beezzer

But it solidifies my assertion that my youngest will be home schooled.

Score 1 for emotional reaction.

I despise (there's really not a a strong enough word) anti-semitism. I think the holocaust is about one of the ugliest stains in human history. However I would not have a problem with my son doing this assignment because I have faith in my parenting. I feel confident that I have and will continue to lay a good moral foundation for him to stand on, one assignment as icky as it feels isn't going to undo 13 years of my raising. I know that he would pass the assignment and be the wiser for it. The more people are aware of propaganda and how much like a minefield it is walking through life everyday, the better.

reply to post by Kali74


I'm not going to home-school because of the assignment, I'm going to home-school because;
the teacher didn't discuss this with parents first,
because there are idiot teachers,
because my 4th grader reads at a high school level,
because he's already doing 6th grade math
because other schools have recommended drugs to keep him at his "age level"
because they don't encourage him to succeed,

etc. . . . .

Well the school apologized for this, but if the assignment was "pretend like you're a communist and say how Christians and capitalists are evil" it would probably be a non-story. It also doesn't seem like the teacher is promoting nazism according to your thread subject, it is most likely a controversial way of drawing attention to nazi racism.

The other thing is, your thread title says "I hate nazis" pray tell, who are these "nazis" you refer to? Are there any in government, the media, or the federal reserve? If I were to make a thread saying "I love the nazis" it would get shut down, which is why I don't make threads on here anymore. So, let's just say that I can't even argue this freely because of the terms and conditions, you know those rules we must follow, the "party line" so to speak, which if violated your account gets banned.

reply to post by beezzer


That I can understand.
But you did say it solidified...