The Silence of the Lambs

I used to be one of those individuals who thought that a woman should have a right to her body, to do with it what she wanted. After all, that's a basic human right.

But now I'm starting to realize how screwed up this abortion thing is. The only circumstances that I see it should be used in is in case of rape, but no late term abortions from rape. Even then, I wouldn't agree with it, but this is getting out of hand.

May God have mercy upon the people who do this for a living, because the Devil sure won't.

reply to post by Amanda5


I think my points are very clear. As for adoption? Been there done that.

I value life. Especially innocent life that doesn't have a voice.

This abortion doc has brought to light the aspects of abortion that many want to ignore.

That it is life, that it is viable. That it is murder.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by beezzer

 

Originally posted by beezzer
Before the pro-abortion crowd starts huffing in indignation, please remember that you have brought this upon all of us.

So typical of the "pro-government-intervention" crowd...

If you're going to use "pro-abortion" to describe people who want each individual to have the CHOICE, I'll use the phrase "anti-choice", "anti-freedom" or "pro-government-intervention" to describe you.

I am AGAINST abortion. The little heartbeat is just as precious to me as it is to you. That's why the CHOICE is so important to me. You want government intervention into an individual's body. I want freedom of choice for each individual. It's really simple.

Carry on.

I don't want the government to intervene into an individuals body anymore than it already has...I just want them to apply the laws of Murder equally to all human beings.

I'm all for equality...I am for gay marriage because it is an equality issue...and I am against abortion because it is an equality issue. A very young human being is being allowed to be murdered just because of it's current location.

I almost never agree with Beezer...but I agree with him here...the pro-choice crowd has allowed things like this to happen. There is probably a decent chance this doctor gets away with doing things like this because the pro-choice crowd has created this "debate" about when is it murder and when is it a "choice".

Ultimately, the doctor is put into an odd situation...it is "legal" for a woman to come in and tell him to kill her baby...but if he doesn't do it in the exact right way...it becomes murder.

So yes, the pro-choice crowd is responsible for all these disgusting abortions and all of you should have a hell of a time sleeping thinking of all the babies being mutilated every day so you can have your "choice".

reply to post by beezzer


Again - you are not addressing all my issues - maybe you don't have the answers or maybe you cannot answer.

I am adopted - my adopted mother told me to my face it wasn't me she wanted - I have no doubt that this has influenced my decision not to bring Children into the world. I made that decision when I was 15 years of age and the truth coming to me in the 'being unwanted' comment - when I was 21 years of age. I would not wish my life on anyone - ever.

Is my opinion valid? I had no voice when I was in the womb and had I seen the life I was to be given - I would have said no thank you I want to be born wanted - in whatever the circumstances. According to you I don't get that choice and perhaps even now I don't even get the respect to choose my opinion!!

The doctor performed a service. Were you there to hear the comments? How long did it take for the employee to make the comments? Why do posters within this thread keep stating that the pro choice people have brought this debate on? Men who rape women, have sex with them when drunk and drugged and every other reason - is the true cause of the situation.

When we live in a world where no Child is in need/ homeless/without a warm welcome into the world - then we will have learned.

I am glad you adopted - it's a shame you didn't keep adopting. As a pro lifer you could have kept on adopting as long as there were Children to adopt or until you ran out of money. I respect your opinion but the doctor you keep referring to provided a service.

Much Peace...

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
I am against abortion personally, but I am also not going to be screaming Pro Choice either. How dare we consider even the smallest lifeforms at the bottom of the ocean to be considered life when we will not acknowlege the life forms we create in our bodies.

Should it be a choice? Sure. Murder is a choice also but I wouldn't recommend it!

Mankind is so foolish!

I think people surely have enough time to make a choice before there is a child with a brain and is alive pumping blood. I can't understand why anyone other then health related problems need 24 weeks to decide to abort. Before that it is simply a very tiny cluster of cells. By week 5 I would not think it right.

Week 5: The embryonic period begins

The fifth week of pregnancy, or the third week after conception, marks the beginning of the embryonic period. This is when the baby's brain, spinal cord, heart and other organs begin to form. The embryo is now made of three layers. The top layer — the ectoderm — will give rise to your baby's outermost layer of skin, central and peripheral nervous systems, eyes, inner ear, and many connective tissues. Your baby's heart and a primitive circulatory system will form in the middle layer of cells — the mesoderm. This layer of cells will also serve as the foundation for your baby's bones, muscles, kidneys and much of the reproductive system. The inner layer of cells — the endoderm — will become a simple tube lined with mucous membranes. Your baby's lungs, intestines and bladder will develop here. By the end of this week, your baby is likely about the size of the tip of a pen.

www.mayoclinic.com...

reply to post by Amanda5

Men who rape women, have sex with them when drunk and drugged and every other reason - is the true cause of the situation.

But why would you need 24 weeks to decide to remove the pregnancy in this circumstance?

Otherwise I like you would have chosen not to be born if given a choice.
I hate seeing abused children who are born to people who never wanted them. Every child should be a wanted child and planed for in my opinion.

reply to post by Amanda5


I'm not sure what you want to know and why it is pertinent to the thread topic.

We adopted a child. We can provide for the child. I wish everyone who felt the same as I adopted. Perhaps there would be fewer abortions.

I'm sorry you had life forced upon you.

I'm sorry that women get raped. But why punish a child with death when it wasn't his/her fault?

The doctor (back on topic) is now performing an act (or was) that you would agree with, but morally, I can't.

Beez, always riding that slippery slope! As for the topic of the OP? I heard about Dr. Kermit's "House of Horrors," a few years ago after his arrest. This whole subject gives me the heebie jeebies. It always has. Murder is murder! We can twist our words about it, make excuses, redefine, or whatever. If that makes people feel good about their decisions? More power to them!

I am kind of surprised that this tale is not all over the news as well? Perhaps, it may shock some people and make them gasp? Perhaps, abortion is not as humane, and dignified after all? Or as my left leaning friends would have it, "Perish the thought." It is all about freedom, and a women's right to do with her own body as she sees fit. Just like cosmetic surgery. Right? Nobody is being killed. As long as the nature of these procedures are out of sight and out of mind? It is okay. Move along folks nothing to see here. *Now paging Dr. Mengele*

reply to post by Jakes51


Succinct as usual!

When they talk of "choice" it sounds so clean, doesn't it?

Well, if we are all for taking away the rights of a woman to do what she wants to her body, then I think the perfect solution would be to require all young boys to have a vasectomy. Then, when they want to have children, they can have the procedure to reverse it. That will stop all unwanted pregnancies. Your welcome.

Personally, I'm on the fence about abortion.

I am against it if someone chooses to do it because they were irresponsible. If you feel you should have sex, then you should consider the fact you may become pregnant. I feel abortion should be permitted for rape victims and stem cell research. But it should ultimately be the choice of the woman.

But when people do disgusting things with the fetuses, that's were it goes wrong fast. If a abortion takes place you should at least do it as humane as possible.

This doesn't make abortion itself wrong. People will to things in the wrong way no matter what the situation.

Some people may get boosed up and kill someone in a car accident. Does this make alcohol wrong?

Someone may grab a gun and go "postal." Does this make guns wrong?

People will always do certain things in a negative way. I feel karma will take it's course though, they'll get what's coming to them.

reply to post by Lingweenie


Some though (like me) see all abortion as murder. So we're just arguing as to HOW to kill someone, or WHEN to kill someone.

reply to post by beezzer


I don't see how this is murder. A fetus is not a human yet. And it's technically not alive until the heart begins beating. Sure, the cells of the fetus are alive, but the fetus in general isn't.

If that were the case, why are tadpoles not considered frogs? Why are catterpillars not considered butterflies? Why are eggs not considered chickens? Why take a humans life more seriously than another creatures?

Sure these are not humans, but theres no consistency,and it makes that claim a little less credable.

But when it comes to humans, why is a woman that goes through he menstrual cycles not considered a mass murderer? Why are people who masturbate not demonized, and called murderers? Why is birth control not demonized? Why do people say they have a child on the way, and not say they already have one? And why does the government no include them in the census?

Just looking for a bit of consistancy here.

reply to post by Lingweenie


You speak of species and age. Is a teenager the same as an adult? I would ask that you study the difference between haploid and diploid cells. It may illuminate.

Look, I've been through this abortion debate countless times. I dreaded this thread but thought it important enough to post.

Believe how you wish. I would fight to the death so you could.

But we will never agree.

(pardon the poetic wording, I'm watching Game of Thrones)

Originally posted by beezzer


I want freedom for the pre-natal person. I want freedom for the voice that can't yet speak.

Should I coin you pro-abortionists as anti-freedom as well?

There's the problem. I believe in freedom to do whatever you want with your body, but where do you draw the line on life, and its conception?

Those "aborted" have NO say in the matter. Its convenient to justify a fetus as non-living, or just an "it". Desensitizing life, so to speak. How do those judge the sanctity of life ? What is life? Questions..........

reply to post by sonnny1


Well, once upon a time, there were those that thought black folks didn't have the ability to self-determine or that they didn't have the same rights.

Funny that we fight to afford rights to minorities to gays to anyone except children that have yet to be born.

Because it is an inconvenience, apparently.

Originally posted by beezzer


Because it is an inconvenience, apparently.

Agree.

Maybe the "guilt" of Abortion is easier to swallow in the long run.

reply to post by beezzer


Well yes, teens would be considered adults. Since people who are over the age of 18 usually are considered adults.

I don't see where your going with diploid and haploid cells. Their both cells, and their both life forms. Why favor one over the other? Both are used for important purposes.

Originally posted by Lingweenie
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well yes, teens would be considered adults. Since people who are over the age of 18 usually are considered adults.

I don't see where your going with diploid and haploid cells. Their both cells, and their both life forms. Why favor one over the other? Both are used for important purposes.

Because one set of chromosomes can produce life and the other can't.

I'll let you figure out which is which.

reply to post by beezzer


And your point is?

Does it really matter which one produces the life? Both cells are living.

And that brings me back to my previous questions.

Are people who maturbate, or menstruate murders? Or use birth control/condoms?

After all these are diploid cells that are being used, the ones that are involved with reproduction.