Where did we go wrong? Was there a signal point when the U.S.turned in the wrong direction that stan

Originally posted by Ex_CT2

14th Amendment, no question about it:

Bulls eye!

Ex_CT2,
I stand with you on this one.

1) the "missing" 13th amendment is ratified
2) the British burn down Washington d.c.
3) the new 14th amendment is ratified


Mike Grouchy

May I offer another possibility? John Dewey and the Progressive Education Alliance.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

It matters not the "technological" state of that weaponry.

Okay...

If you say so. It is our expertise with technology that has borne us along till now, though. This has to be one of the prime movers behind our drive to control nations don't you think? I mean obviously we don't outnumber our adversaries, we just out- "class" them. Meaning we have better weapons and the skill to employ them.

Weapons are the force multiplier.

Originally posted by intrptr
If you say so. It is our expertise with technology that has borne us along till now, though. This has to be one of the prime movers behind our drive to control nations don't you think? I mean obviously we don't outnumber our adversaries, we just out- "class" them. Meaning we have better weapons and the skill to employ them.

Weapons are the force multiplier.

You speak as if technology is only a 'current' thing. It has been around since the day Man harnessed fire. The use of having control of that technology and using it to bully others is as old as mankind. In a way, I agree that it is a 'prime' mover, but it has been since we walked on two legs.

Example"

Village One: Develops tools to hunt and fish and fend off wild animals.
Village Two: Develops those tools further to overtake previous village.

Rinse and repeat. The cycle is far older than your "military industrial complex" notion.

if only there had been a Mutiny right when the guy yelled
"Land ho.............. it"s the new world"
if the sailor would have killed Columbus then and there before news of the new world got out.
we could all be watching the 'Buffalo Roam'.


oh well...................Painfulhead

Originally posted by Painfulhead
if only there had been a Mutiny right when the guy yelled
"Land ho.............. it"s the new world"
if the sailor would have killed Columbus then and there before news of the new world got out.
we could all be watching the 'Buffalo Roam'.


oh well...................Painfulhead

Except news of the new world was out before Columbus. Leif Erickson found it far before him. Others are speculated to have migrated here before Columbus. His credit is for bringing the Crown to it....

On a long truck haul a few years back, I was surfing Sirius Radio and came upon a discussion on how the speech writer for GW's second inaugural speech misplaced the word "liberty" and the word "freedom".

These pedantic types from Georgetown University, if I have this right, opened for me a new level of understanding "Liberty" at least in a political sense.

It's" give me liberty or death". Not "freedom" or death.

Again, if I have this right, politically, freedom implies "rights" granted by a gov't. Such as a Canadian constitution. Just an "eg", I'm not singling Canada out. The "right" to free speech and so on.

Liberty implies you are the gov't, you empower your representatives. You are the militia. You adjust, correct and oversee your chosen representatives. YOU...ME.

We have, therefore, failed to exercise our liberties. (Of course it gets a bit difficult when one doesn't learn of the very concept until over 50 years old.LOL)

This isn't The "Gov't's fault, it's ours and no one elses. No cabal, no group, no vested interests. Just thee and me.

Depressing....

reply to post by mikegrouchy


what is this the"missing" 14th amendment is ratified you mentioned?

i've never heard of it.

did you mean the "missing" 13th, which would have bumped the current 13th to 14th and the 14th to 15th.

i would really like to hear more. please explain.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


As hounddoghowlie points out, I believe you are referring to the lost and found 13th. That was another, but different, piece of evil. The real 13th could have saved us many a grievous injury itself, and there probably never would have been a 14th Amendment as it now exists (although there may have been a 14th covering a different subject).

I'd still like to see the genuine 13th put into effect. But alas....

1910-1913

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

what is this the"missing" 14th amendment is ratified you mentioned?

i've never heard of it.

did you mean the "missing" 13th, which would have bumped the current 13th to 14th and the 14th to 15th.

i would really like to hear more. please explain.

d'oh

You're right.
I edited my post.

Thanks, didn't realize I made a mistake.


Mike Grouchy

reply to post by nwtrucker




Probably the genocide of an entire race of people in order to settle here. That's where we really screwed up


Followed by slavery, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, a-bombs in Japan, Reagan's Iran Contra drug smuggling, 9/11 and the Patriot Act


When were things going well again?

The op has asked the question as to what all has gone wrong and where we turned wrong. The reality is that there is not one point, but several points which has led to the downfall of the country and here is what I would believe they are:

1) TV. As much as many of us like TV, TV was predicted back in the 1960's as being a bad idea, as it was seen as a dangerous tool that could either save or destroy society. While it can be used to enlighten the viewer, more and more it is used to entertain and dumb down society.

2) Jails and Prisons. They no longer are the places to fear, too often those who are incarcerated, have it to easy. While they do not have the freedom of movement, but if you look at how a prisoner is treated and what all they have at their disposal, it is a joke more times than not.

3) The education system. Course that were once taught, ideas and critical thinking are slowly being replaced with more and more rhetoric. The no child left behind program is a joke, as too often students are having to study more for tests that they will have to take, rather than understand the course material.

4) Wall street. Before the idea of wall street as being the pincacle of business, many businesses were partnerships, a big difference. Under a partnership and single ownership, a business if it fails, falls to limit the liability of a one or 2 individuals, as it stands a business in the public sector, publically traded, ends up if it fails, the failure falls and has to be paid out by the people.

5) Division of the people, on a social point. Too often you hear people identify themselves as This kind of American, or that kind of American, the lack of one identifying factor is ultimately what is dividing the country, where too many groups are demanding special interests, fracturing the country more and more. At one time, while some would say yes or no, most people refered to themselves as American. With the advent of being politically correct, has left many in the cold and isolated.

6) Politicians who are too comfortable in their seats. If you go back and read through the old speeches of people who accepted a high office, they were not overjoyed, it was somber, solem, often kind of sad, as they did not want to be in that position and would vacate as soon as their term was over, not wanting to remain there. Now it takes an upheavle in the citizens to get an incumbent out of office.

7) The lack of personal responsibility in the minds of the citizens.

-Its always been screwed...

The more I look into History and corruption, the more I see that there is nothing new under the sun. I hear many mentioning jeckle Island and the creation of the fed- Yes, we are paying for that NOW but there were 2-3 generations which prospered beyond anything History has ever seen (and left us the pricetag)- So I wouldnt say that.

-I would be more inclined to think Nafta and the "Free trade" agreements coupled with reaganomics ("trickle down effect") coming at a time that the 1913 scheme is falling apart- A perfect storm.

-As for corruption, its always been there. From George Washington's land Theft on the Ohio River Valley, to the railroad swindle, to countless "Central banking " Schemes- Nothing is new there.... What IS new is this perfect storm coupled with globalization.

Originally posted by charles1952
May I offer another possibility? John Dewey and the Progressive Education Alliance.

I would personally disagree with this one.

Most of the ideas of progressive education are not bad. If implemented correctly these would create a much stronger education, although in certain cases, like US, the interpretations of these have weakened the education, rather than strenghtening it. In some countries these have truly strengthened the education. Everything depends on how these are implented.

I believe the decisions that have led US to the position where they are right now :

1) Federal Reserve
2) Laws giving too much power to corporations
3) Low progressive taxes (high-income people and luxury items should be taxed much higher)
4) Too low investment in higher education & too low standards in education system up to high school
5) Too low sales/cigarettes/alcohol/gas tax. This would make the country trillions in long term, if they used even a bit similar taxes to European countries. This could be invested in developing stronger public transport system, stronger education etc. Overally healthier for the society and environment as compared to most of the world, US consumerism is too much. That is probably one of the reasons behind the obesity problems.
6) Letting too many important facilities for the country become privatised into profit-based corporations e.g. prison system, universities, healthcare etc. I believe common human needs should not be exploited for profit, Also a system where someone profits based on the amount of criminals is not good. This only leads to absurdities.

These were the first ones that came to mind.

The invention of the television:

A means to promote biased news/propaganda, and a means to sedate higher thinking. Take the invention of the television out of history and I truely believe a starkly different timeline of history would emerge.

Nope. The Cycles must come to pass.

The War on Drugs (begun in 1914) with its programs of foreign aid and military intervention, the top-down corruption as a result, dumping drugs on American city streets to fund illegal war operations, and the resultant loss of privacy and personal liberties with intrusions into our homes with intent to side-step due process in a zeal for property and asset forfeiture. Success is measured by how many people are incarcerated and how many new prisons are built.

This "War" corrupts by inflating prices to astronomical proportions of what would otherwise be a nearly worthless commodity in a free market, but which under prohibition now offers huge profits to anyone willing to be corrupted by the illicit market. Use it to create more crime on the streets and cashing in on that, then further erode our privacies and liberties all in the name of keeping us safe; raise taxes to hire more police and build more prisons.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
The War on Drugs (begun in 1914) with its programs of foreign aid and military intervention, the top-down corruption as a result, dumping drugs on American city streets to fund illegal war operations, and the resultant loss of privacy and personal liberties with intrusions into our homes with intent to side-step due process in a zeal for property and asset forfeiture. Success is measured by how many people are incarcerated and how many new prisons are built. This "War" inflates prices to astronomical proportions of what would otherwise be a nearly worthless commodity in a free market but which under prohibition now offers huge profits to anyone willing to be corrupted by this market.

edit on 12-4-2013 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

I fully agree with this.
But didnt know we could discuss this.
Its like "he who shall not be named"....

1964 when planned obsolescence was introduced to car manufactures.

Instead of making cars to last and be repaired they instituted a plan of cars wearing out to be replaced by a new car.

The whole manufacturing industries followed suit and so did American culture and attitudes.

"The throw away Culture of materialism and greed" "New and Improved and just a bit more expensive"

www.thedailygreen.com...-4