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Where did we go wrong? Was there a signal point when the U.S.turned in the wrong direction that stan

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posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:42 PM
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Many cite coming off the gold standard, personal income tax, the Fed.

All are valid, I suppose, yet if there's one point where we seemed to be correcting things somewhat, had turned the corner and had slowed down the perhaps inevitable rush to the left. That was generally agreed upon to be during the Reagan era.

I won't recount his accomplishments and failures here. His over-all results thrusted Bush 41 into office and the results, if not spectacular were not bad at all.

I seem to focus on one huge disaster. Ross Perot. His splitting of the vote, who personally had me excited at the time, directly led to the election of a President who never achieved 50% of the national vote and moved us even faster to the left.

I also don't want to imply any connection to the Ron Paul/Tea Party movement as a "vote splitting" entity as there is no "Reagan" in sight that I can see and splitting the vote looks now as the only option remaining that has any chance of working.

I won't dwell on the unmitigated disaster the Carter and Clinton administrations were. Sorry, Clintonites, budgets are "balanced" in congress, not by the president.

This is the point where I feel we "lost it",

Is there other points that stand out or even trumps the Ross Perot cluster-fudge?




posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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The FDR administration and the 1964 elections.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:52 PM
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Jekyll Island.

Nothing more to add.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:55 PM
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Eisenhower warned America about the Industrial Military Complex, born of WWII. His protege Kennedy tried to thwart it and they killed him for it.

That was the beginning of the track that leads us all the way to here.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


LOL, good point. Johnson was an outright pig. FDR.. sigh.

Still, we seemed to be recovering, at least somewhat, from those black days during Reagan/Bush 41. Who knows whether that would have continued without Perot. It sure didn't with him....



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
Eisenhower warned America about the Industrial Military Complex, born of WWII. His protege Kennedy tried to thwart it and they killed him for it.

That was the beginning of the track that leads us all the way to here.




posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by nwtrucker
Many cite coming off the gold standard, personal income tax, the Fed.


You speak of the early 1900s with a couple of these. Creation of the Federal Reserve, finally passing into law a direct tax on income (using the nefarious "withholding" scheme), and the 17th Amendment.

All consolidated power and heavily swung the natural pendulum of power between a Nationalistic government (Federal Government) and the States (and the People respectfully).

The time period between 1910-1920 saw one of the greatest consolidations of power the country had known and still knows. It continued into the Great Deal era with many of Roosevelt's programs and the Court expanding the Commerce Clause.

Since then, there have been some strides of further consolidation of power that rival the early 20th century. Consolidation of executive branches, expanded use of "executive orders", Presidential War Powers Act, Patriot Act, etc, etc.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
That was the beginning of the track that leads us all the way to here.


Look back further, but another point of great power being consolidated to the top. The power grab occurred long before that. That was the 'money' grab in light of 'self defense' and 'national security'.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by intrptr
Eisenhower warned America about the Industrial Military Complex, born of WWII.


Also worth mentioning General Smedley Butler whom warned America about the Military industrial complex a half century earlier, born of the Banana wars.


I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested.

Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.” ― Smedley D. Butler,
edit on 12-4-2013 by METACOMET because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:03 AM
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Nafta was the beginning of the destruction of America, Bush/Cheney almost finished it off.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:04 AM
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I'd personally go with the LAST "exit ramp" I think this nation really had, in hindsight. We can argue the first, all the way back to the 1st Bank of the United States and it's successor which came a time after the charter of #1 expired.

The last chance I think we had was the election and immediate period following George W.. I don't mean Florida and I don't mean the election itself. NOT the thread for that ... No question, as I read the OP.

I mean I wasn't half as experienced and awake as I am today and I was still, even then, pointing out to people in my life that the new President was building himself a War Cabinet. Everyone he was appointing was perfect ....for War Time leadership. There WAS no war in 2000. There was no OUTLOOK or even rumor of war anywhere in the world for U.S. involvement in 2000. Preemptive War? What was THAT!? Impeachment was what that would have been to even suggest it then.

Yet, sure as hell...that was a War cabinet he assembled. We should have screamed and beat the tabletops for explanation then. Maybe it was too late ..but then, maybe it wasn't. Just maybe....we still could have hit that ramp off the road to crazy town, however high a speed we'd have taken it at. In hindsight ...I don't think America had any real chance to change a thing after that point.
edit on 12-4-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 


Yet my understanding was that the percentage of the GDP being spent on the military at the time was around 11%.

We had dropped down to the 4-5% range before 9-11.

Sorry, but this mess isn't military industrial complex in origin from what I can see. We've had a strong military for a long time AND a strong economy at the same time for a good part of that time. (Even under democrat presidents).

Kennedy was no pacifist by any stretch. The bay of pigs and turning our "advisors" in Vietnam into an actual war was JFK's legacy/failings as well.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by CB328
Nafta was the beginning of the destruction of America, Bush/Cheney almost finished it off.


Part of it, but not the beginning. Look back further and separate yourself from ideology for at this. It isn't a simple answer such as NAFTA or even the Federal Reserve. There are many factors that have led to this moment.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by intrptr
That was the beginning of the track that leads us all the way to here.


Look back further, but another point of great power being consolidated to the top. The power grab occurred long before that. That was the 'money' grab in light of 'self defense' and 'national security'.


But not in the modern weaponized world. We have never before had the numbers of modern arms and the seeming willfulness to threaten and use them all like we do today.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 


14th Amendment, no question about it:

Treason by Design: The Evil behind the 14th Amendment


I happened upon a treatise by Lysander Spooner1 entitled “No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority” in the mid-December, 1999. This particular article was forwarded to me by an acquaintance in the freedom movement. Spooner was a brilliant attorney from the country of Massachusetts who spoke out gallantly against “The State”. While the title of this particular work of Lysander Spooner was intriguing enough, I was floored by its issues.

To set premise: the reason this particular treatise set me on end is that Mr. Spooner had the exact same sentiments about the purpose of the Civil War which I have come to discern. Accordingly, for the past year I have been researching the Fourteenth Amendment—which is fallout from the so-called Civil War—and its bastard effects. In my researched opinion, this amendment is so evil it would go beyond the comprehension of many. I had found most people in the movement only scrutinize Section 1, wherein the issue of citizenship and due process is established; however, the true evil lies within the other sections. In the opinion of this jurist, the most evil is Section 2. This particular section deals with the [re]apportionment of the so-called “inhabitants” for representation and also sets forth voter stipulations.


Enjoy....

Edit: Just so you don't get the idea that all this is the fevered imaginings of some single "conspiracy" site:

The TRUTH About the 14th AMENDMENT

Power, Legitimacy, and the 14th Amendment

The Dual System of Law Effectuated by the 14th Amendment

A diligent search will turn up many, many more treatises on this foul, treasonous "private law" amendment....



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:07 AM
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Industrial Military Complex basically gave birth to, and opened up the flood gates to, Corporate Fascism.

With that in place, The Corporations, Industrial Military Complex, and Foreign Banking Systems fund who they want in power via molding their Manchurian Style Candidates in all the Private Skull & Cross Bones type Fraternities in all the top schools where most politicians come from.

The rest is just keeping a club & annual meetings going like the Bilderberg groups and Bohemian Groves where all the Elite keep in touch.

The top 1% also suffer from a Masochistic Egotism complex of massive proportions.

So its a number of things that got us to where we are now.

Sadly, I see and feel that Big Bro is prepping for a possible Civil war with all the mention of Christians/Catholics being on the same list as Al-CIAda.

Its a really sad state of affairs that I see my country in. I never thought I would see half the things going now, in my lifetime. I figured my kids would have most of the issues to contend with, like drones, cameras, and being watched everywhere.

Oh well. I guess we'll wait and see what happens, and try to be proactive in slapping some of the sleepwalkers awake



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by CB328
 


Nafta gets a lot of blame and I see the point. YET, cars had been built in Canada for decades for the U.S. market. G.M. was building it's motors in Mexico long before Nafta as well.

I seemed to me to formalize a lot of what already was happening between the three countries.

I supported it at first, if for no other reason than a healthy Canada and Mexico was a good thing for the U.S.(not that Canada needed any help). They bitch about Nafta as much as we do.LOL.
edit on 12-4-2013 by nwtrucker because: punctuation error



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by CB328
 


once centralized banking came back after the civil war. Aka federal reserve.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by intrptr
But not in the modern weaponized world. We have never before had the numbers of modern arms and the seeming willfulness to threaten and use them all like we do today.


A bit of nitpicking here, but "never had the numbers of modern arms" is a ridiculous statement. In 1900, the arms of that time were 'modern', in 1960s, those arms were 'modern'.....

Countries have threatened from the dawn of countries using their military might as the backing. It matters not the "technological" state of that weaponry.

The power struggle was lost in the early 20th century between 1912-1945 for the United States. From there it has grown and included the military industrial complex; that I don't deny.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by nwtrucker
 


You didn't go wrong - your government did! Everything experienced now is as a result of the public being blind to what was creeping up on them. Now you are seeing the end result of what has been allowed by those who have trusted. End of.






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