Sometimes, spending taxpayer dollars IS appropriate!

When you think of wasted taxpayer money, what do you think of? Bicycle trails over old railroad tracks? Airports that service few, go almost nowhere yet have some special Congressman or Senator's name on the road sign? How about bridges to nowhere or even the endless pensions paid to Congressmen and Congresswomen of all shapes, sizes and colors, red and blue?

These are the things I consider when I hear someone start off a sentence with words like "You know what I heard the Government wasted a pile of money on???"

How about National Defense? Lets see what the Heritage Foundation has on this?

National defense is the only mandatory function of the national government.

Most of the powers granted to Congress are permissive in nature. Congress is given certain authorities but not required by the Constitution to exercise them. For example, Article One, Section Eight gives Congress power to pass a bankruptcy code, but Congress actually did not enact bankruptcy laws until well into the 19th century.
But the Constitution does require the federal government to protect the nation. Article Four, Section Four states that the “United States shall guarantee to every State a republican form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion.” In other words, even if the federal government chose to exercise no other power, it must, under the Constitution, provide for the common defense.

Source

Yup.. Says right there. National Defense. It's a responsibility of Congress to provide the resources necessary to accomplish that goal.

So...What is wrong with this picture, folks?

Congress Frets About How Much It'd Cost To Save Earth From a City-Killer Asteroid

WASHINGTON (CN) - The House Committee on Science, Space and Technology shied away Wednesday from pledging tax money to track down and deflect "city-killer" asteroids, but called for international and private help during a hearing on giant space rocks.

"Congratulations," Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Colo., told B612 Foundation CEO Dr. Ed Lu, whose organization has been raising money to build a space-based telescope system that will orbit the sun, tracking city-killer asteroids that aren't detectable by NASA and Earth-bound amateur astronomers.

Ummm.... Errrr.... Uhhh..... I think a few thousand Russians would tend to feel pretty strongly about space based "oops" type things occurring without notice or ability to mitigate. In fact, a few probably need that in sign language....or at least did immediately after the booms that blew out windows for a rather surprising distance.

"In our first hearing we learned that of the estimated 20,000 asteroids that could be labeled as city-killers, we have identified only 10 percent," said Committee Chairman Lamar Smith, R- Texas. "And we are unlikely to have the means to detect them until 2030."

But, Smith said, "In these fiscally challenging times, [the government and private sector] can't afford duplication or the inefficient use of our recourses. The more we discuss and understand the challenges we face, the easier it will be to facilitate possible solutions."

Source

Fiscally challenging times?! We ought to SHOW him fiscally challenging times!

I say we start with HIS benefits, HIS pay package and HIS pension after his sorry tail gets a size 12 boot out of Congress on his next election. I don't give a hoot if he's an R and that means a D likely would replace him.

(R)idiculous is all the R stands for in this case, IMO. This isn't just a potential city and hey...while he's worrying so much about pennies over dollars during orgies of spending that are still happening in a Congress who can't even PASS a budget? Perhaps he might consider.....it could be HIS city. At the very least, he ought to lose his spot on the bus to whatever shelter Congress has these days if such a thing did come calling ....without funding to have seen it in advance.

So it cost's too much money for a telescope to track killer asteroid, but they have all the money in the world to study shrimp on treadmills,studying cow farts, and the endless other asinine spending that is well known.

It's cheaper to build a telescope than to rebuild a city, where thousands could perish, and right along with the tax revenue, and the economic turmoil accompanied by a killer asteroid.

They really don't care among the billions wasted on pork.

reply to post by neo96

Thanks... I figured you and a couple others would see through the fluff for the fundamental problem here if you found the thread. They have lists every year for the 10's of billions wasted on things like tax breaks to NASCAR tracks for bleacher and concession stand costs or bike trails in local communities (federal? really??) or like you say, the mating habits of a critter no one really cares about mating in the first place outside of having enough of them to eat on a buffet. lol...

Of all that crap, you'd think they'd happily carve out what's needed for a decent insurance policy on the whole planet's worth of potential 'very bad days' after just ONE is missed, just ONE time. Heck.. a city killer isn't even THAT big in terms of possibly doing something about it ...unless it's so close by the time it's noticed that it's either a burning streak of fire already crossing the visible sky, or so close that nothing exists for time anymore.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

reply to post by defcon5


On the first point, I do see the point too in that it's a bit tiresome that we be Captain America to the World on problem solving everything that comes down the pike. It would be awfully nice to see things of a planetary nature be handled in a planetary approach. Ultimately, I think that's a major milestone to cross on our evolution as a species and we sure aren't there yet.

On the other hand for that, it's also true in looking at history overall that if we don't do it, too often, it simply doesn't get done at all. If we were a nation like Austria or New Zealand for land mass (I.E...Target area) it wouldn't even make sense but for philanthropy on the world scale. However, we do occupy a measurable % of the world's land mass with exposure to 2 of the major bodies of water (and a lesser one), not counting the Great Lakes for places such an object could hit and cause indirect damage by Tsunami, if not a land strike in the first place. It does give it a logic, doesn't it?

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On the second point... Hmmm... They way you repeat 'crap' back does make me wish I'd chosen a better word. err... That is where I think we're also into what I'd call total and absolute over-reach to what the Federal Government's purpose is in this nation and by it's founding documents where such powers and duties are outlined.

It isn't necessarily that easy anymore though, is it? I'm only a 50% stakeholder with that opinion and many would argue even equal standing for pure statistical numbers. Regardless, it's not a controlling majority view anymore and, honestly, neither is the opposite one of Central Government expansion into these traditional state areas of responsibility being a proper and necessary thing.

In all honesty here? It's really time the U.S. face the fact we need to meet the issue head on and have an open, national discussion and debate on this for the future of the Republic...IF it is even to remain a Republic at all. Is it to become more socialist or back out to a true form of capitalism? Central Government or power within the states and close to the level which folks live? It's as fundamental as it gets, IMO ...and this spending for examples puts form to the concept, doesn't it?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Actually those smaller, lower altitude areas along the pacific have more to worry about they the US. Land wise Asia has the largest chance of being hit, and water wise the Pacific Ocean. Is you mention, if it lands in an ocean all those lower lying Pacific countries would be obliterated by the tsunamis generated by such an impact.

While I agree its not the federal governments job to create jobs, control of the economy is part of their function, which then means they have to keep it flowing. Additionally the jobless market is held against our representatives when it comes time for election. So on one hand you want to say, “its not their job to create jobs”, but then on the other who gets the blame the instant that the job market dries up?

reply to post by defcon5

On the first one, you make a good point as always. My remaining point there is simply that those with the ability are left to take the duty. America and Russia are essentially the two sole powers with decades of direct, hands on experience to make something like this work and produce solutions without recycling development efforts and relearning so much that was achieved through bitter loss and great cost since the 60's. Now it might be a real good time to call Putin and suggest a thing like this be a shining example of joint efforts between two nations which are starting to slip backward in efforts.

We still hitch rides on Russian craft to the ISS and use Russian craft to return, so all is not bad there...but it could sure be better. This would be an opportunity to advance that, if taken. This just crossed my mind as a side thing while reading your reply, but the more I've thought while typing mine? The more sense it would make, too.

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I really enjoy debating you on the occasions you're in the forums and same areas I'm in these days. You're one of those who can really put me into an intellectual box that takes effort to get myself out of without contradiction. This wouldn't be any exception..lol

I'd say on the Federal level of jobs, unemployment and national well being? The Governments role should start and end with fostering a welcoming and healthy environment for business to thrive in. Not assuring that, anymore than any of us are assured we will GET Happiness as the third item stated in the 'Life, liberty and pursuit of 'happiness' ' we all know so well.

I believe it becomes almost hopelessly complicated and counterproductive when those in Government willingly take on job creation and employment as a direct and personal responsibility to manage as opposed to simply encourage the environment for it. At that point, they earn both the credit if it goes well ...but more often, the blame when it goes very badly. This and the previous administration have both, at various times, taken on that role as a personal and direct thing to try and fix. Those who have spent their lives serving Government have little understanding of the nitty gritty inner workings of Business...and so, I believe, need to stay clear away from micromanagement of it. Especially at the job creation level and with tax money.

After all...It's spending some people's money to make jobs for others to get it. Kinda odd on the face of it, but then to look at Cost : Job ratios in more than just one Admin's attempt at this? I think it becomes almost crazy.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

All that other “crap” you are mentioning, while seeming senseless to you and I, is generating jobs and helping keep the economy flowing here in the US. Things like the bike paths are actually more important long term as they reduce our dependance on foreign oil. As the price of gas is increasing the number of folks riding bikes is as well.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

It would be better if we made our own toasters, refrigerators, stoves, washers and other appliances for our citizens instead of the government stimulating the economy. We need to bring small factories back to the country. Why can't we build affordable tools? it seems that the middle man wants to make a high percentage on his investment. I can't understand this philosophy at all, a grocery store will mark up a high quality hot dog made locally from 3.60 per pound cost to five sixty per pound retail. That same store sells a lb of cheap hotdogs for a buck thirty and only makes a quarter. This isn't right, big business grows while small businesses are suppressed by extravagant overcharges on some products considered premium.:shk: