Originally posted by veritas93
Well, we are only a democracy when it comes to electing those that represent us.

Yes, exactly...you got a representiv democracy..but you democratic system is a republic-system.

Saying US are not a democracy, US are a republic is like saying this is not a milkshake, Its a strawberrymilkshake.

First off anyone making a remark like this towards any other group would have gotten a warning.

Nothing against attacking groups, just individual members....though she's come close to a warn in other postings today

Secondly, I would like to know where you got this. I may not be a fundamentalist Christian, but I am a Christian, and still did not vote for Bush. I have spoken with many other Christians that felt the same way I did, and also voted for Kerry.

No one that I have ever spoken with, that did support Bush, ever brought up gay marriage as a reason for it. The main reason that I have come across is that most believed that Kerry could not make a decision and stick with it. That he talked a big game, but never came through with his actions.

Early this morning, voters listed their top priority as "family values". Since the only items on most ballots pertaining to this were stem cell research and gay marriage, it was a natural assumption to blame the changing tide on Christians. Likewise, she stated she was basing it on personal experience and friends she knew, as she stated.

God help us a super power has gone MAD

Mutually Assured Destruction: However, I really don't see how it would have been different if Kerry had won. You do know Kerry and Bush are bloodbrothers. Either way, whoever we would have voted for, we would have got a bones member. America, and many other countries in the world, are not run by the elected governments, they are run by a shadowy body.

Everyone, stop acting surprised and shocked. It was all over in 2000.

Everyone, stop acting surprised and shocked. It was all over in 2000.

I think the corpofascists took a firm grip around US goverment back in 1963 or at least showed its muscles by blowing the brains out of JFK.


[edit on 3-11-2004 by Kollapse]

Well are you all ready for another four years of hell, but worse. Here it comes. It's just so amazing that half of the American puplic lost their fricken minds and voted for the anti-christ again. Well you get what you pay for. And I hope that those Americans that voted for him get the worst of it.

Here once again fear rules the day. Those of you that are God fearing, should be scared, because your God has something for your A.....

It may not be tomorrow or the next day,but it will be ccoming.

I'm glad I don't have to fear my God.

Thanks for the clarification.

I just get tired of being lumped into this group, like all of us are off the assembly line duplicates of each other. We are all stupid, shallow and misguided, and of course none of us think for ourselves.

Like I said the biggest reason that I have come across is Kerry’s flip-flopping, there are a lot of people that think we need decisive action against terrorism, and that Kerry does not have the decisiveness to deal with that. Then there was the munitions debacle at the last minute, and his voting against properly equipping our troops.

If you guys want to blame it on gay marriage, why not blame it on the Homosexual lobby, if they had just let the whole marriage thing simmer on the back burner until after the election, maybe more of the conservative Christians would have changed sides. Point is there is plenty of blame to go around, its not just the Christians fault.

To those that are picking on us from other countries, just remember this though. Almost half this country got together and basically said they did not care for the way this country has been handled over the last four years, unfortunately it was just not enough of us.

Originally posted by Kollapse

Yes, exactly...you got a representiv democracy..but you democratic system is a republic-system.

Saying US are not a democracy, US are a republic is like saying this is not a milkshake, Its a strawberrymilkshake.

Actually, it would be like saying it's not a milkshake, it's a malt lol.
However, point taken.
My point was that a democracy is mob-rule, which is why our system was designed to prevent that. Guess I was just responding to your seeming shock at the mention of us technically being a republic and not a mob-rule democracy.

Originally posted by veritas93
My point was that a democracy is mob-rule, which is why our system was designed to prevent that. Guess I was just responding to your seeming shock at the mention of us technically being a republic and not a mob-rule democracy.

The first Democracy in ancient Greece and was based on a very large slave population to make it work. How else could these guys sit around debating all day?

In Canada we say we have a instituded revolution every 4 years. So for one brief moment we have a direct say.

Who knows maybe when we get computers /Internet to work secure and without to much failure , we may all be able to vote on new laws / bills and admin decision's etc. hey it could happen

I new Bush was going to be re elected, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I have never lost as much respect for a country as I have in the last two years. Through out the cold war I was an outspoken supporter of the USA and its efforts in NATO and around the world.

People lesson number one. Occupations never work unless A) you intend to be as brutal as the Nazies or B) You have fought an enemy to exhaustion [Germany/Japan in WW-II]. Either way its unworkable.

Lesson #2 Democracy is not a flag you can plant any where and expect to grow. Democracy only takes route if it arises out of a indigenous popular movement with an national identity. You have imposed this upon a people who 100 years ago were nomad tribes , and have only been held together as a country by brutal leaders.

Lesson #3 Never base an act of war on a gamble. If you lose the gamble , it only makes you the enemy and a laughing stock. After this who is going to believe America on Iran or NK where the threats are much more real than Iraq ever was. All wars are a balance on what you will gain against what you will lose. Was Saddam really worth the price you have paid?

Lesson #4 now that America has established preventative war as policy, whats to stop all the other regims around the world from their own preventative war. The world is a much less safe place than it was in 2002 .

Finally don't mix politics and religion and stay out of the bedrooms of the nation [thats none of your damn business] . You have to think of what will happen at the other end of the scale . Imagine how bad it would be if an islamic government took over and imposed their islamic law Government has to be secular to work.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by psteel]

Originally posted by psteel
Finally don't mix politics and religion and stay out of the bedrooms of the nation [thats none of your damn business] .
[edit on 4-11-2004 by psteel]

Ummm, I assume that you're speaking of the gay marriage topic? If so, I don't remember hearing that the gay marriage amendments actually went into people's bedrooms and prevented intimacy. Why do people keep acting like this is what's happening. I could care less who does and doesn't get married, but I think the arguement is based more on tax breaks and insurance coverage more than sexual preference.

Well the US is now a Christian Fundametlist Extremist country when you have a leader who thinks he has a personal hotline to God and who beleved hes Richard the Lionheart off to fight the Muslim Hordes in the Crusades.

Anti Gay vote, anti abortion etc. I never realised the Saudi Royal Family ran the White House.

(Where Bin Laden came from i may remind you all)

Bush is a fool, the US people (well half of) are fools. And not many peole around the world especially the UK (Americas lapdog, well Blair is) has any respect for the US anymore.

Originally posted by rustiswordz
Bush is a fool, the US people (well half of) are fools. And not many peole around the world especially the UK (Americas lapdog, well Blair is) has any respect for the US anymore.

rusti, you are certainly one of the classiest members on ATS my friend. That kind of arrogance is one of the reasons that most Americans (at least the conservative ones) are losing the ability to CARE what others may think. I'm not sure most Americans would care about being respected by someone who thinks like you do.
No matter how much you would like to fantasize that half of all Americans are fools, that simply isn't true. Just as many (or few) fools voted for Kerry. You don't know why people voted for Bush, because it was probably a different combination of reasons for each person. You assume that those who voted for Bush were tricked into doing so, when the truth is that they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Come down off that high horse... at least for one or two threads.

So foreigners want to know what Americans were thinking when they voted for Bush? I can give a clue. I believe Abortion is wrong and is just a legalized form of murder. Kerry supported murder and I could not condemn myself by voting for someone who supports murder of the unborn and innocent. All other issues were overridden by this fact as far as I'm concerned. It didn't help any that Kerry seemed to support gay marriage and was against having any missle defense for the US when North Korea has been threatening to launch missles our way. Many of Kerry's views are out of line with mine too. While I would like it if Bush got along better with foreign governments, that issue was low down on my concerns.

I'm not terribly concerned about the US getting involved in alot of future wars. I don't believe we'll start anything if other countries don't start anything. We have a big enough mess just cleaning up Iraq right now. It's alot more costly than I think our officials counted on too. Perhaps if the peace loving civilized countries can just agree in common values that we all seek peace and security, we can all get along together and stop fighting and disagreeing so much.

Can we Just get along?

There comes a time that those that represents a cause need to sit down and talk! We/Us/Them have a need to be heard. There will be a chance to find a peaceful outcome if the desire is there to do so. It goes without saying, that not all issues will be seen the same way, however, there is no difference in the need to understand and resolve our differences by words that will give life, not death in the conversation.

If we were to look at the entire world, every Nation,every State,every belief system that we pray to... anything that is ugly, in each moral aspect, no one is not gulity.

Right now, were not pro-active, just re-active to each each threat that wishes to express their need to be heard for whatever the cause may be.

Emotions are what drives the Hate, or Love that will get to a real solution, or not!

Originally posted by mwm1331

I think the rest of the world is totally scratching their heads and wondering what the hell the US voting public is thinking.

Which is exactly why the rest of the world would have voted for kerry.
Americans and europeans are different.
Different values, Different culture, Different way of doing things. When are you people going to get it? We aren't like you and we don't want to be.

Well Europe doesn't try to force people to be like them... anymore. America on the other hand does and we don't want to be like you, which is one thing we share in common. Get it?

Originally posted by orionthehunter
I believe Abortion is wrong and is just a legalized form of murder. Kerry supported murder and I could not condemn myself by voting for someone who supports murder of the unborn and innocent. All other issues were overridden by this fact as far as I'm concerned.

Ok with this statement in mind you are telling that you are against killing the unborn and innocent. This is an irony for any president who choses to wage war. You simply cannot fight to protect your unborn and innocent with no regard to Iraq's unborn an innocent. Killing is killing...period. If you chose to wage war you are making the decision to kill innocent civilians whether you want to or not. Now what bothers me is that I feel Bush values American innocent more than Iraqi innocent.

Does anyone else see the hypocracy in this. If you are pro life............. you are for living, not aborting, killing, maiming, bombing.

This is why no true Christian can claim to hold the presidency, it's impossible. A real christian would "turn the other cheek". We would be a weak country if this was our policy.

We are not doing a very good job of leading by example here.