Let's Talk About True Sacrifice

This question is posed to all practitioners of the Christian faith. Let's say "God" has two choices:

1. Destroy himself to preserve the universe. His death would invoke an eternity of peace and prosperity for all living creatures throughout the universe. In destroying himself, he would never again be able to exist in any form. His only remaining traces would be his creations.

2. Destroy the universe to preserve his own existence. The continued existence of the universe would weaken him until he could no longer do anything but enjoy the agonized slumber of an old man suffering perpetual degeneration, for as long as he also exists. Should he destroy the universe, he would be unable to create a new one.

To the best of your Christian knowledge, what would he choose? And remember - these are the only two options allowed in answering this question.

What Would God Do? Heh heh heh...

why can't he do both?
i mean, he's god. right?

heh, heh, heh.


edit The Apocryphon of John

reply to post by tinhattribunal

why can't he do both?
i mean, he's god. right?

I'm looking for a serious answer here.

i added a link to the above post that may explain what i said.

reply to post by tinhattribunal


Why don't you quote the relevant selection so I don't have to waste my time finding the part you believe to be of interest?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It may be that you're asking the question of the wrong people. I can't imagine that any Christian would say that either of those two choices are possible, let alone preferable.

Choice 1 is the suicide of an undying God. What????

Choice 2 is that the Universe's existence would kill God. What????

Your choices are creative and imaginative, but, for me at least, they don't make any sense.

reply to post by charles1952

Choice 1 is the suicide of an undying God. What????

Choice 2 is that the Universe's existence would kill God. What????

Your choices are creative and imaginative, but, for me at least, they don't make any sense.

I'll tell you what doesn't make any sense: the apparent belief that no matter what happens, "God" can't lose. He exhibits the personality of Voldemort with the skills and intentions of Dumbledore. It sounds like he's afraid of being anything less than unstoppable. That, to me, is a dangerous personality trait. Every single figure we have ever seen who was afraid of being less than invincible went to terrible lengths to prevent their own mortality.

Either "God" isn't afraid to truly and permanently die for our sake, or he isn't afraid to destroy us for his own. You can't have it both ways. Even Dumbledore died in the end. Does it make sense now?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Dear AfterInfinity,

I'm sorry to be missing your point. Of course it doesn't help that I know nothing about Voldemort or Dumbledore except V. is supposed to be bad and D. is supposed to be good.

When you ask for the opinions of Christians, you are asking for the the thoughts of people who have certain beliefs. I'm not sure what you mean by "God can't lose," but for a Christian, that's quite true.

Either "God" isn't afraid to truly and permanently die for our sake, or he isn't afraid to destroy us for his own. You can't have it both ways.

My point is that a Christian can't have it either way.

Perhaps if you were to ask Agnostics, Atheists, or Pagans?

With respect,
Charles1952

The God that Christians believe in is eternal -- he can neither kill himself, nor be killed by the universe.

You must be thinking of some other god.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Let's say "God" has two choices:

1. Destroy himself to preserve the universe. His death would invoke an eternity of peace and prosperity for all living creatures throughout the universe. In destroying himself, he would never again be able to exist in any form. His only remaining traces would be his creations.

That is assuming that God created the universe, something the Bible does not claim. The "universe" was created by what it calls in Hebrew, the Elohim.
"God" as a single person, gets labeled as, Yahweh, who made a set of individual people for His garden, and through heredity, it is assumed, the Israelites, who hold this particular god, Yahweh, as their national god.
Such a national god could, if you see him as more of an angel than an actual universal God, die, and, like you suggest, never again be that 'god', again.
Jesus would fulfil 'national' prophecy and present himself as "The Lord" and the great "I Am" of the national scripture, die, and never be that national god ever again.
Thus, that idea of a national god died with him.
Now the actual person who he was, of course is eternal, regardless of if he is god or man, and that continues.

The Spirit of God never dies and is eternal.

Sorry there is no such game, and the first is impossible, for all souls are ifinite parts of infinity and God/Life/Consciousness cannot destroy Himself/Herself.

The Universe is a school, so don't know what matters here, but all people would go home.

Instead there is a divine plan for everyone and everything.

Since I'm not a Christian I would chose the first one. That's the one that my mind agreed with more.
Second line needed.

Holographic Universe, infinity within, could be a grain of sand on another planets beach, even, or a flower growing in someone's garden, but its a school, and not Soul.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Your truth does not stand to The Truth.

Your futile attempts to debunk the Truth with lies will be seen through and disregarded with little to no thought by anyone informed and educated in Reality.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I'll tell you what doesn't make any sense: the apparent belief that no matter what happens, "God" can't lose. He exhibits the personality of Voldemort with the skills and intentions of Dumbledore. It sounds like he's afraid of being anything less than unstoppable. That, to me, is a dangerous personality trait. Every single figure we have ever seen who was afraid of being less than invincible went to terrible lengths to prevent their own mortality. Either "God" isn't afraid to truly and permanently die for our sake, or he isn't afraid to destroy us for his own. You can't have it both ways. Even Dumbledore died in the end. Does it make sense now?

sorry couldn't resist!!
D had to die as he made mistakes, i guess you wouldn't mind an immortal D. Would you?

For you, death is the end, ceasation of existence but is death really this?

I have answered your question in my thread.
Here i'l like to question your question.

Do you think God has a material existence? A body? That can 'die'
Do you think God would reach a point like you suggest when God would have predicted it even before bringing the Universe into existence?

I'l say if a being reaches the dilemma like in the OP, The being is then not God.

Btw maybe God had divided his soul and made the universe as a horcrux!!
There you go! "None can die while the other survives!"

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
This question is posed to all practitioners of the Christian faith. Let's say "God" has two choices:

1. Destroy himself to preserve the universe. His death would invoke an eternity of peace and prosperity for all living creatures throughout the universe. In destroying himself, he would never again be able to exist in any form. His only remaining traces would be his creations.

2. Destroy the universe to preserve his own existence. The continued existence of the universe would weaken him until he could no longer do anything but enjoy the agonized slumber of an old man suffering perpetual degeneration, for as long as he also exists. Should he destroy the universe, he would be unable to create a new one.

To the best of your Christian knowledge, what would he choose? And remember - these are the only two options allowed in answering this question.

What Would God Do? Heh heh heh...

edit on 11-4-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I know you are specifically picking the brains of Christians here but, since none of them are actually answering, I figured I'd take a stab at it.

Firstly, I'm answering this under the assumption that the Abrahamic religion is true and their god is real and is as depicted in the respective religious texts. If that is the case, the answer is simple. He would choose to sacrifice the universe over himself.

The reason is that he had the chance several times over save humanity simply by not existing but he remains. The Abrahamic faiths are the driving factors of most of the hate, violence, and bigotry in the world and, knowing that, their god could bow out and preserve much of what's left of our harmony. Much like what we had before the Dravidian came from India, planting the seeds of religions with a priest class.

In Christian mythology, he sacrificed his son instead. The Abrahamic god would totally sacrifice us over himself.

Originally posted by Cuervo
I know you are specifically picking the brains of Christians here but, since none of them are actually answering, I figured I'd take a stab at it.

Um...

We answered it. It's a nonsensical question, for Christians. You want to answer it, fine, but by saying that there is an answer, you're demonstrating complete ignorance of Judaic and Christian theology, just like the OP showed.

The Christian God is eternal. He cannot kill himself, he cannot be killed by the universe. Period. Check the definition of the word "eternal" if you don't understand that. You may not agree that God is eternal, not being a Christian, but by positing the question to Christians, it is, necessarily, limited to Christian theology, and is therefore a nonsensical question.

reply to post by godlover25

. . . anyone informed and educated in Reality.

Oh!
So, is that what you call your cult indoctrination meetings?
I think it might be more according to forum etiquette to engage in some actual dialogue rather than jumping into what looks like a personal attack.
For example, mentioning exactly what he said that you disagree with, then responding by mentioning what you believe that is at variance with the first thing.

reply to post by Cuervo

I know you are specifically picking the brains of Christians here but, since none of them are actually answering, I figured I'd take a stab at it.

Well, hang on, there!!
I did answer the OP and said #1, that not only would god choose that, but that he already did, in the person of Jesus.

In Christian mythology, he sacrificed his son instead.

Excuse me but you have got that backwards!
Jesus, as the Lord and the I Am, introduced us to a God we didn't know before, who he called the Father.
So it was not the Old Testament god killing his son, but Jesus assuming that office and saying it is OK for him to die because the Universal God "who you only up to now suspected existed", really does, because "I personally know Him".