Effects of an EMP on our Infrastructure...

The scenario reminds of the bleeding sky prophecies from the Tom Brown books.

Red Sky

It was at the end of the fourth day that the third Vision came to him. As he gazed out onto the landscape towards the setting Sun, the sky suddenly turned to a liquid and then turned blood-red. As far as his eyes could see, the sky was solid red, with no variation in shadow, texture or light. The whole of Creation seemed to have grown still, as if awaiting some unseen command. Time, place and destiny seemed to be in limbo, stilled by the bleeding sky. He gazed for a long time at the sky, in a state of awe and terror, for the red colour of the sky was like nothing he had ever seen in any sunset or sunrise. The colour was that of man, not of Nature, and it had a vile stench and texture. It seemed to burn the Earth wherever it touched. As sunset drifted to night, the stars shone bright red, the colour never leaving the sky, and everywhere the cries of fear and pain were heard.

This would be a nightmare on Earth.

Yes, because there are almost no electronics on a reefer (Refrigerated trailer / truck unit (tractor)

they would just call em right up. Load em up. Ship em out. Yeah.

Originally posted by antar
Refrigeration trucks would be called in as temporary morgues too. Hospitals and Nursing Homes would be hardest hit imo.

Originally posted by whywhynot
reply to post by Mr Tranny

 

Reread your post mrtranny, you contradict yourself several times. Goodnight!

Well, please point out those contradictions because I don’t see them.

The process behind rebuilding the transformer is straight forward, but the size of the items is large, so it will take effort to move and restack stuff. But that is strictly a logistical problem that can be solved in a standard manner.

Do you know what I think the scariest thing about an EMP attack is?

People would have to actually learn to talk to each other again instead of always keeping their head bowed down staring/texting on their stupid phones and pretending nobody else is around. Or updating their stupid facebook status with regurgitated pictures of cliched sayings.

The zombie apocalypse is nigh......It might not be all bad if it does happen.

reply to post by lnfideI


The reason that came to mind was because I have read in the distant past here on the board how when the DHS was creating continuity of Gov and society, this was one of the first considerations for the worst case scenario and widespread death.

The ref. trucks would be a priority for generators after a disaster either manmade or other.

I really do not believe that this whole NK thing is anything to be concerned about, at least not now. It is so much posturing by the young Kim.

IMO a more realistic concern about the effects of an emp type take down of the grid system will come from the sun this year.

reply to post by Gazrok


I cannot get your link to load properly. Some sort of error with Adobe acrobat. I came across this article and thought it was pretty eye opening.
www.futurescience.com...
I have been interested in the reality of our vulnerability to EMP for some time.

reply to post by unsteadystate


Have to wait for it, it's a 7mb file. I did warn you.

Especially surprising was the bit on cars and trucks. Seems we may not be as bad off there...but the infrastructure is the real problem. Losing power would be catastrophic on many levels.

Pick up and read the book One Second After. Very Very good read.

Stop and think

No power - first it is the sick and dead in hospitals Then anyone who uses insulin. No refrigeration. Medications will run out and those controlled by meds are on the streets. Crazy. Death...stench....it is not a pretty picture folks and not one to talk of lightly.

I would suggest that everyone have a month of dry food goods and buy that ammo for your 22 for protection and hunting.

One port in the US crawling to a halt would put the entire country back a few months. If we are at war the US will be the secondary receiver of support as it will be gong to the military.

reply to post by antar


Did you see that one let off yesterday!!!!

I don't know Gaz,

Lots of people can talk about the pudding, how good or bad it was, wrote numerous books on cooking it, eating it, testing it.

But the best test for the pudding, is actually in the actual pudding.

Discovery Channel EMP test

Proof lays in the pudding.

Edit:
The U.S. EMP Commission tested a number of cars and trucks. Although this was the most comprehensive set of tests on vehicles that has been done, those tests were very poorly done because the Commission was financially responsible for the vehicles, but did not have the funding to pay for any of the vehicles they tested. The vehicles were borrowed from other government agencies (most vehicles came from the Department of Defense); and the vehicles had to be returned to those lending agencies in good condition.

Those vehicles were tested up to the level that some sort of upset occurred, then further testing was stopped on that vehicle. In most cases, after the initial upset occurred, the vehicle could be restarted. In most of the remaining cases where the vehicle could not be immediately restarted, a latch-up had occurred in the electronics, and the battery could be momentarily disconnected to "re-boot" the electronics, and the vehicle could then be restarted. This temporary electronic latch-up failure mode caused by EMP is something that almost never occurs in automobiles during a typical lifetime of operation.

Only one of the vehicles tested (a pickup) could not be restarted after some minor work, and it had to be towed to the shop for repairs.

Very few of the vehicles were tested up to the maximum level of the EMP simulator. There was considerable disagreement among Commission staff members about how to report on the testing that had been done. Some EMP Commission staff members believe that the wording of the paragraphs in the EMP Commission's Critical National Infrastructures Report about the effect of EMP on vehicles is quite misleading.

Link to full article

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by unsteadystate

 

Have to wait for it, it's a 7mb file. I did warn you.

Especially surprising was the bit on cars and trucks. Seems we may not be as bad off there...but the infrastructure is the real problem. Losing power would be catastrophic on many levels.

The satellite NK launched is tumbling. It is unable to send or receive commands.

EMP is not a sure thing. Effects have been noted but usually as an extra hassle far off the weapons burst point. There is a lot of mistaken beliefs about it. You can read about it here...

Debunking EMP myths

And shield stuff which isn't already shielded.

Shielding

Electromagnetic storms (lightning) pass thru a vehicle harmlessly by circumventing the interior. Most vehicles are an iron cage insulated from the ground by rubber tires. A lightning strike (there ain't no more potent EMP than that) will induce heavy amounts of current around the interior and then arc to ground.


Most electronics (including power transmission) are located inside metal boxes and that is it's own protection from induced current. Same with the shielding on your electronics. The current will proceed around the phone or computer sitting in your lap if a bomb goes off.

There are warnings during electrical storms that one should heed. Same with nukes. Stay indoors, unplug your electronics, don't go to the window. Wear sunglasses. Then kiss you ass goodbye because the real desired effect of nuclear weapons is about to erase your whole existence.

Heat, blast and radiation.

Having been through a couple of several day power outages in the last couple of years, after a blizzard and a hurricane, we got just a glimpse of what it would be like to be without power.

The gas stations and grocery stores were closed. Well, all stores were closed in the area. There was one small grocery store open that was taking cash only, and running their refrigeration on generators. But if you did not have cash, you were out of luck, because there were no local banks open.

There were long lines for generators in the few stores that were receiving shipments. If you were at the end of the line and had not prepared in advance, you were out of luck again.

Many people I know lost hundreds of dollars of food in their refrigerators and freezers.

The thing in, this was localized. So, you could drive a little while and find a gas station or store or bank. The hotels in the surrounding areas filled up quickly, and some people had to drive far to find lodging if they did not want to stick it out in the dark.

Our company was closed for several days, as most business were, which means people had to use vacation days or get no pay. Just imagine if that was more long term!

Some people were out of power for a couple of weeks, until the trucks could get to their areas. What happened was - they saw the storm coming, so they had cooperating power companies in local areas prearranged to help out. But, the storm hit those other areas harder than expected, and our local companies did not get as much help as expected restoring power.

There were concerns about security and looting, but I must say that people seemed to mostly help each other out, sharing what resources we had. I would hope that would hold true if the situation were worse, but knowing humanity, I have my doubts. People were definitely getting cranky everywhere you ran into them after days in the dark with no hot showers or hot meals.

Now, magnify that power failure in a larger area, for a longer period of time. No driving a bit to find a store. I am sure if generator availability was so limited for one area, that in a larger crises they would be even more limited. Eventually the gas for generators would run out.

Power companies were stretched to their limit in these storms. For those saying - no worries the power companies will save us - well, they do not have unlimited resources. There is only so much they can do so quickly, so I am sure in a situation where they had to rebuild an entire grid, we would be in the dark for a long, long time.

People would start getting very grouchy - no make that dangerous. Looting would be rampant. It would not matter to people that they were working on rebuilding. People would want food for their kids today.

And of course there would be more than just power outages, as equipment of all kinds would be knocked out.

People would die, as hospitals run out of generator power (if the generators were even shielded).

Shipments of food would be interrupted, if not non-existent. Ask the people recovering from Hurricane Sandy. The government did not seem overly concerned with bringing food in for people. Most were pretty much on their own.

If the military was busy fighting a war at the same time its people were going through all of this, I doubt there would be much national guard left to come in to restore order or help with recovery.

There would be little communication. No way to know what is going on in the rest of the world, or even with your family across the country.

This is not a science fiction scenario. We see a tiny glimpse of it every time the power fails, and it takes longer and longer for the power company to rebuild our systems.

Just think about the Superdome...and that was a hurricane. An EMP strike would cripple us. No ifs and's or buts. You would have a complete breakdown of social order within one week. One. By the second week you would have local conflicts in the US. Martial law would be attempted and people would fight back. The US is used to instant gratification. That would be gone and replaced with hunger. That would be the only need you would have if you had a home. No order folks...

Now, think about the following that could be used following an EMP strike

1. All those DHS rounds to defend the US
2. All those military vehicles defend the US
3. All those camps for dissidents/NK sympatheizers (anyone stated to be a terrorist) remember that ATF/DHS want to know all your friends article recently?
4. The Utah Data Center gets turned on
5. Report if you want to be a citizen and get basics

Folks, they have set it up better than the fire at a certain building.We are on the precipice of full dependency on our government.

reply to post by lnfideI


Thanks for the added info...

As for the bit about the NK satellite....I still have no doubt it's space junk, but the very threat of such a weapon (from any adversary) bears considering.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Starfish Prime was a 1.4 megaton weapon detonated high in the atmosphere. It caused a TEMPORARY outage in Hawaii, approximately 900 miles away, it knocked out a few small satellites overhead, and yet not one of the dozens of ships and planes operating underneath it suffered failures, or were lost.

As for the reports from North Korea, there is no way to tell if they detonated an EMP weapon, because it was and underground test. The ground surrounding the test site would have absorbed any gamma burst, and any EMP. So all they could tell is that a test occurred.

The W78, which is one of the more common warheads used by the US, is estimated to weigh in between 700 and 800 pounds. My understanding is that an EMP warhead is larger than a standard warhead, so it would be heavier than that. The Unha-3 was designed to place 220 pound satellites into an approximate 300 mile orbit. So if an EMP warhead (even a so called "Super-EMP) is LARGER than a 700 pound warhead, how in God's name does a rocket designed to put a 200 pound satellite into orbit manage to lift it that high? Can someone explain that one to me?

reply to post by Zaphod58


It can't. I have no doubt the NK satellite is space junk...but the EMP threat raised, is a good general WWIII concern from any technologically advanced foe.

reply to post by Gazrok


Sure it is, but let's use a little common sense and some research here before we run around like chickens without heads screaming about how we're going to be hit by a massive EMP from something that couldn't possibly do it. I'm concerned about an EMP attack, and it's a valid thing to worry about, but let's not blow it out of proportion here.

If the US was hit by an EMP, do you really think that all our allies wouldn't have planes loaded up within 24 hours, bringing whatever they could spare, and whatever technicians volunteered to come help us out? With spare generators, etc. Yeah, we're going to get hit hard, but we'd get hit hard by a nuclear attack too. Or if Russia ever decided to hit us with a conventional attack through Alaska and Canada. There are a couple dozen ways that we could be hurt badly, and an EMP is only one of them.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Here's to hoping we never have to find out. The reason for the thread wasn't more doom porn, but to provide a solid, recent study on the actual effects, instead of trying to guess.

reply to post by Gazrok


Oh, I appreciate the thread, and it's always good information to have out there. It just doesn't ever seem to stay how intended though. I haven't had a chance to read through the paper yet, but as soon as I have time I will, but from what I've read in the thread, it sounds pretty interesting.