Shanti Devi - The Only Fully Explained and Proven Case of Reincarnation

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
This is not proof of a past life. This Shanti person may have been being fed information by another entity - ask older Catholic priests about this.. demons can give information to people at the speed of light. It may also be possible there is a scientific reason for this that's not yet understood.. perhaps some form of genetic memory passed down through generations. Either way, there is no way to prove this is reincarnation or something else.

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Taking into consideration 'Demons' providing information, one might see the paradox here. The existence of a spiritual realm, God and Demons. Reincarnation would be only a 'proof' as I see it. I am however a Christian and already believe, needing no outside proof such as these accounts.
I'll also add that 'reincarnation' is not one of my beliefs, thus perhaps a demon source of information. There are accounts in the Bible of demons being cast out of people, so the plausibility exists.

Originally posted by cartesia
Honestly I am open to the idea of reincarnation but I am inclined to not accept the 'memories of past lives'. I dont discount it, but it seems less likely.

The reason being that memory is very clearly stored in neurons. you can cut out specific memories from someone. Now it is possible that there is another type of 'soul memory' , but it seems more likely to me that there would not be duplicate memory systems.

I dont discount the idea of genetic memory, however we have not witnessed any process that writes new data to DNA over the course of a lifetime - to me the idea of genetic memory is limited to something that was placed there when we were 'engineered' (if that was what happened)

Of course this shouldnt be confused with evolved 'genetic memories' AKA 'instincts'. Such as recognising the shape of a snake as a thing that should be paid serious attention, colour associations, feelings about food, fire, etc.

edit on 12-4-2013 by cartesia because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2013 by cartesia because: (no reason given)

You have no idea of the nature of the soul itself and the qualities possessed by the soul.
You know of only Western ideas about this issue.

reply to post by Plotus


Demon, Satan: These are explanations of wayward behavior which completely ignores human's own powers and choice of being good or evil.

The principle of soul taking different bodies as per its actions is fundamental to the universe. It does not matter which religion you follow or which God you believe in.

It is not easy to understand God and God's laws. Most humans (almost all nowadays) are too deep in sin. The result is chaos and violence.

Heres a video I saw a while back about a boy who claims he was a world war II pilot. After watching this I had second thoughts about reincarnation. Very intersting !

Here is another case that is just as convincing to me.

A lady named Jenny Cockell remembered living as an Irish lady with 12 kids and being on her deathbed scared of what would happen to them.

Pretty convincing story to me anyways.

www.people.com...

Maybe children have a stronger ability to recall past lives due to brain development? Children's brains aren't fully developed until their teens. Perhaps the "current" life has not fully taken over at that point?

Just a theory. It seems children are much more "open" to things like reincarnation, ghosts, etc.

What came of her son? the importance of her coming back, to me, was to give birth. so it has been quite a while now, how is he?

Originally posted by chiefsmom
I find it very interesting, thank you for sharing that.
I wonder. If it is true, why are there not more people that remember when/if they come back?
Or, maybe there are, but nobody listens or believes them?

Although the concept in theory is very easily understood, it's mechanics are not at all. I'm willing to bet that such topics are simply too complex for humanity's current rational understanding of the world.

The ancients knew about rebirth and reincarnation. WE knew about it, even though we often don't remember details about our past life. There's far too much evidence to suggest that we aren't reborn into this world to live again.

For a while, I thought rebirth was more or less a materialistic concept (I don't want to stop existing, I enjoy existing and don't want to leave this world), but as time passed, I began to realize what was going on: We're learning, slowly but surely, becoming ever more closer to God, shedding ever more of our physical existence until one day we will find union with God. This will truly be Heaven.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


For a while, I thought rebirth was more or less a materialistic concept (I don't want to stop existing, I enjoy existing and don't want to leave this world), but as time passed, I began to realize what was going on: We're learning, slowly but surely, becoming ever more closer to God, shedding ever more of our physical existence until one day we will find union with God. This will truly be Heaven.

Very wonderful conclusion. Nicely thought out. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Although gaining spirituality is a good way to come to realization, were not down here for that goal. weve been put here to learn our lessons and when we do go on, we will look back and know that it was just a passing thought. And we will come out better for it to be attending such a tough school in life. dont worry about going home, even college students dream of graduation. Sit down, open up a book, and listen to the professor. If you fail a class, you retake it dont you?

For all I know, reincarnation could be completely natural. However, while I don't support or oppose her story, I do feel the need to offer an alternate viewpoint.
Her story is not proof of reincarnation.
One who believes in spirits might submit the possibility that such higher beings have been giving her this information for the purposes of tricking people into believing in reincarnation. If you're wondering "why", think of it is a mass psychological operation to cause doubt in what is taught by your enemies.
"Ghosts are dead people who didn't go to either heaven or hell! Reincarnation is real, we can defeat death! Psychic powers are natural for human beings, because this and that person did it on their own!"
I think in order to fully grasp what I'm saying, you need to get rid of the "good and evil" or "right and wrong" mentality and understand that there are spiritual beings of various factions and abilities. We aren't capable of comprehending the full extent of this, but I firmly believe that spirits have throughout the history of humanity influenced thinking and psychology through such manipulation, vying for support from the human populations for their own agendas.

reply to post by trollz


I both agree and disagree. I thought of that but then i went through my own personal checklist of the events. There doesnt seem to be anything about abuse, negligence, or evil spirits. It seemed to be portrayed in a hindu cow sort of way, or it actually was that way. Point being, nothing negative came up in it. She seemed to care and know about quite a large bit of her family. It seemed to have been an okay thing. She had a significance for coming back, a lesson she hasnt yet learned.

But I do believe in your opinion that some manipulate. I just do not think this is one of those cases.

What about the boy Dalilma from Washington state. The lama told his followers where he would be born. They found him and brought him home. Do you think a four year in Washington state parents would let him go with people from Nepal they had never met unless he really is the Lama



www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by mactheaxe


Soul has no control over life (being born) and death. It is under the control of God's powers.

God decides where, when, a soul will be born and which life form soul will take.

Same with death. Death is under God's powers.

There is no such thing as "evil spirits". A soul cannot do anything without body. Somebody dies - the connection with the body is broken. The soul then is under the control of God's powers. What happens to soul after death is described in Veda and can be learnt from a yogi.

There are no ghosts, demons etc. Such stories are spread by evil people; or living people act as demons for some personal gain.

reply to post by trollz


Your viewpoint comes from not understanding the qualities and powers of soul; and the nature of God's creation.

Yogi calls this Earth 'jail' and 'heaven' at the same time. The soul is not free. You live on a jail bound to this planet. You will suffer the same pain as you caused others - even to animals and plants. You kill one animal - you will be the same animal in subsequent lives and will suffer that pain which this animal suffered due to your actions.

The soul accumulates experiences through its birth and lives in different life-forms; and that shapes the 'character' when born as a human (actually as an animal as well). But there is no evolution as you are referring to. Your soul is trapped in an endless jail.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Maybe children have a stronger ability to recall past lives due to brain development? Children's brains aren't fully developed until their teens. Perhaps the "current" life has not fully taken over at that point?

Just a theory. It seems children are much more "open" to things like reincarnation, ghosts, etc.

Or they have wilder imaginations, and after hearing about things believe them. Eg. perhaps a child hears their parent's talking about an old person dying, and then begin to wonder what it would be like. Then later when they hear about an Irish woman with many children they start thinking about how it would feel to be that Irish woman on her death bed, and then just talk about it with their parents.

Or the parents make up stories for their children to recite. Similar to how parents want attention by having a sick child, and poison their child (such as a recent case in Australia of a woman giving chemotherapy drugs to her child, or the balloon boy from a few years back).

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by mactheaxe

 

Soul has no control over life (being born) and death. It is under the control of God's powers.

God decides where, when, a soul will be born and which life form soul will take.

Same with death. Death is under God's powers.

There is no such thing as "evil spirits". A soul cannot do anything without body. Somebody dies - the connection with the body is broken. The soul then is under the control of God's powers. What happens to soul after death is described in Veda and can be learnt from a yogi.

There are no ghosts, demons etc. Such stories are spread by evil people; or living people act as demons for some personal gain.

The soul has control over its choices, hence free will. I believe the powers that you are referring to is Absolute perfect love. He or it forgives you so completely that it trancends our current awareness and ability to recall to one-a-nother.We quite simply do not have the brain computing ability to comprehend this nor do we have any kind of language so fully fleshed out to accurately and completely describe. Some languages are better than others and can get closer to a remotely definite explanation. The only way to completely and fully understand is to experience it. That is what "we" as souls are doing. We have come here on our own free will given to us by the love of "God". or just the absolute and pure love. Some are sent here, but when we are in the spirit, conscious of this, and conscious of all that is around us and in us, then we can fully understand the purpose, and understanding to knowingly come back.

It is decided within our lives what we learn, if you dont, then you re-learn in another life, or it keeps popping up in the life you live now until you get it.

As far as "evil people",there are higher beings that do take pleasure in motivating us to do certain things.
my point in this case is that i see no evidence to consider it the work of a demon or spirit. If you would like to continue using the eastern philosophies as evidence, I agree but I am reminded of yin and yang, Nature has a balance, for every good, there is bad. Neutral is the most optimal mindset because you promote neither good nor bad, just clarity.

These lives we lead, We are learning, we have chosen to learn out of our own free will or maybe "God's" ultimate understanding being so clearly understood that we want to come here. either way, it's for a purpose.

This lady just proves the ability to come back. But that was her path and it is ripe for such a wonderful convergence of intelligent thinkers such as this. I

I have a study program where I learn from everything, look at the constants amongst cases such as this so I can draw a fully fleshed out picture. From what I've learned in my personal studies, I believe in reincarnation, and I believe her.

And when i say we, I mean your soul. or spirit.

I can explain it easily but you just wont like the explanation.

reply to post by Cabin


Interesting one indeed! Now if a 9 year old today had done the same thing, I would think, "clever kid, but how about get outside and play instead of spending all your time researching on the internet for a hoax!" but this was well before the internets, obviously, so...things that make you go: hmmmm

As far as reincarnation, I suppose if I built an AI avatar in a virtual world, with a limited lifespan, I would like to be able to reanimate it, though reverted to some overall base "mind" it had developed, so as to re-run the program with its "mind" now a more advanced foundation than at the beginning of its last go'round, rather than simply scrap it completely and start fresh. At least, if I was looking to progress the thing further and further over time. Maybe the creator(s) if he/she/it/they exist(ed?) felt the same way.

Originally posted by Cabin
Couple of days ago, I came across a Swedish book: "Shanti Devi: En berättelse om reinkarnation",which was originally published in 1994. It has also been published in English: "I Have Lived Before: The True Story of the Reincarnation of Shanti DeviI"...

The tale strongly resembles one of the "case studies" in a book I read few years ago about "Old Souls".
While I agree that this tale gives a good argument for reincarnation...I don't know that anyone could go as far as to claim it is proof thereof... There are arguments that can be laid against this, depending on one's "belief system".
Nevertheless - it does lend substantive weight to the potential/possibility of reincarnation...as you say.
Thanks for bringing this back to mind --- may want to revisit it, and see if I'm missing something.