What Gun Control Really Means

A great book that i believe many of the pro-registration, pro-regulation folks should read is titled Unintended Consequences, by a man named John Ross. I just finished it, and all I can say is WOW. The book contains an AMAZING compilation of the causes and effects of gun regulation throughout 20th century America, and contains facts that i bet even the majority of the pro-2nd group never knew. Hard to find due to the banned books lists its on, but an awesome read if you can get your hands on a copy.

Originally posted by TorqueyThePig
To those people that say that the people that think the government will round them up and kill them are crazy answer me this. Can you actually 100% say it could never happen? Has it ever happened in the past?

Hell I am a LEO and can't say 100% it could never happen (I would obviously not participate). Just like I can't say 100% it could happen. I will tell you this though. I would like the option to defend myself if it did. My AR or my Ak is not harming anyone locked in my safe.

Another pet peeve. People that say "do you really think your AR can defend against what the military/LEO has?" So let me get this straight. Just because someone is bigger and stronger than you you don't fight back? Wow. I feel sorry for you. That's not how I was raised. If you want to die on your knees that is fine. I however will not. You have no right to tell me that I should die on my knees.

edit on 11-4-2013 by TorqueyThePig because: edited

edit on 11-4-2013 by TorqueyThePig because: edit

You are quite right about inability to round up guns, but groups such as the ATF have proven to Americans time and time again they are riddled with corruption. If a person who holds a class 2 manufacturing license finds him/her self in a situation where the ATF doesn't like what they're doing than major problems could arise...Even if laws haven't been broken. Just to list a few of the many cases of corrupt cases, or cases where information is withheld/altered to fit the ATF's agenda..

-Ruby Ridge ID Vicki weaver shot in the head while breastfeeding
-Waco, TX 76 burned alive due to $200 NFA tax..
-Ken Ballew Raid Raided, attempted murder, for inert grenade

Note the two livestock trailers used to block News camera view in the Waco siege when they set the camp on fire and burned nerve gas within it.

am i just hearing that they passed the gun bill?

I just read the same thing and there's even more, apparently No senator had any time to read it yet before voting...


How nice of them.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by guohua

 

Apologies for getting your name wrong guohua, a genuine error.

You aren't presumably going to take on any of your armed agencies, though ?

Surely that would just end up with you dead or in jail ?

Apology accepted.

But, I would take on any and all armed agencies, I've lived under the threat of losing every thing you have to include your Life and your families Life at the hands of a Government.
I know how it feels to have the Government knocking at your door. I know how it feels to be taught the Government Propaganda every day and to be taught to Hate America and all it stands for.
I know the feeling of your Government actually telling you were you can and can not live and how many children you can have.
And all the while, you are taught, the Government is your friend and knows whats best for you and will protect you.

I married my husband and moved to America and I'll never be a Government Controlled Sheeple Again.
Our guns are loaded.
Nothing wrong with being prepared. You can go quietly and meekly to the Government work Camp or to your Grave at the hands of Criminals or your Government, it sounds like you've already been indoctrinated and except all the Propaganda teaching of the evils of weapon ownership.

My family and I will not go quietly.
There is nothing I can say to you to change your fears of weapons and of the responsible people who own them.
There is nothing you can say to me that will Every Make Me Like You, Totally Dependent on the Government for our Safety and Well Being Ever Again.

This is the End.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by guohua

 

Furthermore, and with the greatest respect, your guns are loaded, but not locked away, in a secure cabinet, with bullets stored separately ?

Isn't that a rather lackadaisical attitude to gun ownership ?

Why do people talk so much about the subjects they're most ignorant in. How do you know she doesn't own a Glock? Glock has a trigger safety plus two internal safeties. Also if the magazine is inserted but no round is chambered you have four reasons why you will never have an accidental discharge. The bullets and gun may as well be in separate universes. My guns will always be loaded,easy for me to grab, and SAFE. The power to kill the greatest responsibility a human can have. You underestimate the rationale of the responsible gun owners ( I.e. 99 percent of us)

Originally posted by Danbones
am i just hearing that they passed the gun bill?

If they did, I refuse to obey an obviously UnConstitutional law.

reply to post by guohua


On behalf of freedom loving American citizens I would like to say we love you and are proud to have you as one of us.

thanks G
yeah DM I hear you

just noticing the use of poison gas at waco...wasn't saddam (and iraq) hung and dried for that very same thing?

ps
via CNN
the senate just voted to end the fillibuster

reply to post by riffraff


You are quite right, of course, riffraff, I don't know whether or not the lady in question owns the Glock of which you speak. Perhaps she will enlighten us.

And I don't know a Glock from a Gatling gun. And I'm very pleased to admit it. I go out of my house every day without having to consider whether someone might shoot me ...it would never cross my mind.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not anti American, it's just your obsession with firearms. You all seem very knowledgeable about guns, and the ones who seem to know the most are the most vitriolic towards my views,
Worrying, this tells me something about their temperament, and suitability for gun ownership.

reply to post by Danbones


I believe so. Didn't he kill 100,000 kurds with gas in 1998?

The issue with the whole waco siege is that it was carried out by tax agents (ATF) over suspected M-16 machine gun parts banned in the 1986 FOPA which had unpaid $200 NFA stamps.... 21 children under the age of 16 did not need to lose their life over an unpaid tax..

Not trying to thread jack with the siege topic, Waco is just a solid argument against continued regulations against guns and the implications of corrupt government agencies trying to carry out these gray-area laws.

well, One nice thing about gun ownership Mr Smith ( if that is your name.... )
When they come and take your stake knives away ( which I hear they are considering over there) you can always glock your self a nice slab of the roast...

ps
oh yeah, thats what them gunowners was talking about..keeping thier stake knives! ..their homes... and their children too...


eta
PS
yeah thing about Saddam the marine report of the day was not only inconclusive, it was a lot smaller number then that...point being it was likely as spurious a reason as was waco...

which shows the direction the gun takers are following:
NO JUSTICE

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by DaTroof

 

I wish it was fiction. It is historical fact.

Its not a coincidence that through out history in EVERY case, a gov that COULD make its people subservient to them HAS..........

People who deny this are sicker in the head then what they claim pro 2nd amendment people to be

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I would rather take my chances and have a chance to defend myself and my children then surrender and have no chance to protect them.

You seem pretty convinced your Gov wants to kill you.
With that Knowledge, why dont you and others thinking the same way, take the Initiative and Pre-empt your pending doom?

This coming from a poster who on many occasions talks about how EVIL the American gov is...

How they war monger and how they are imperialist hell bent on the destruction of nations....


Many of you who call 2nd amendment CRAZY, are people that believe the American gov is a horrible entity.....


Yet somehow WERE crazy for thinking that at some point were going to be the ones with the boots on our throats?


Hows that for flawed logic?

reply to post by Danbones


I chose the name Mr.John Smith because it is unpretentious, and anonymous,

Or there would be a few Americans on here who would probably like to track me
down and shoot me with their Glocks, which would be quite an event in the sleepy
little market town where I live....

Peace, man.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith


There is really nothing that makes military/LEO any more proficient or safe in the use of firearms than any other average gun enthusiast who is not military/LEO.

Most of the time a "civilian" firearm enthusiast will shoot just as much if not more than a member of the military/LEO agency (except obviously special forces/SWAT).

The only advantage/experience that military/LEO have over the average gun enthusiast is real life active secenario experience. However not all military/LEO even have that.

I can site numerous articles where a military member or LEO improperly used or stored a firearm that resulted in tragedy. Here's a current one.

www.cbsnews.com...

And another www.kcentv.com...

So not even mentioning our birth right to self protection/preservation and the 2nd ammendment, the government has no right in confiscating weapons from the general public. We are no more experienced in theory than anyone else. To think so would be completely naive. This is coming from an American LEO.

reply to post by TorqueyThePig


Thank you for your courteous reply, TorqueyThePig. A refreshing change.....

Originally posted by DaTroof
Spoken like a true madman.

They're not coming to get us yet, because of some secret plan you somehow know about?

Awesome X-Files fanfic bro. Keep going.

Spoken like someone truely ignorant of history and the human condition. It has nothing about "secret plans" and everything about how bad guys ahve contrlled and harmed people throughout history.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by Danbones

 

I chose the name Mr.John Smith because it is unpretentious, and anonymous,

Or there would be a few Americans on here who would probably like to track me
down and shoot me with their Glocks, which would be quite an event in the sleepy
little market town where I live....

Peace, man.

I don't think anyone would like to track you down from the US. The only guns that the NRA and American gun owners sent to the UK was guns to help you arm your home guard in case of Nazi invasion and you are welcome.

In the dark days following the British Expeditionary Force's evacuation from Dunkirk in 1940, Great Britain was a nation virtually disarmed. And not just by the need to abandon equipment on France's beaches to save British "Tommies" to fight another day, but by the policies of its own government. The days of devotion to civilian markmanship, "volunteer rifle clubs" and the idea that there should be "a rifle in every cottage," as proposed by the Prime Minister Marquis of Salisbury in 1900, had given way to restrictive gun control laws that required subjects to demonstrate "good reason" to merely obtain a handgun or rifle. So with Hitler's legions poised to cross the English Channel, the British people were defended by an ill-equipped and defeated army and a "Home Guard" armed with little more than sporting shotguns and pikes.
Help for the beleaguered nation came from both the American government and from the American people, the latter through the "American Committee for Defense of British Homes." In late 1940, the committee sent an urgent appeal -- which, of course, appeared in American Rifleman -- for Americans to send "Pistols - Rifles - Revolvers - Shotguns - Binoculars" because "British civilians, faced with the threat of invasion, desperately need arms for the defense of their homes." Thousands of arms were collected and sent to England, one of which was a .30-'06 Model 1903 target rifle owned by Major John W. Hession. Hession was one of the pre-eminent highpower rifle target shooters of his day, and he used that rifle to win Olympic gold at Bisley Camp in England in 1908. The rifle, unlike the majority sent, was returned and can now be viewed int he national Firearms Museum.

The U.S. Government responded to Britain's peril as well with passage of the Lend-Lease Act in March 1941. Almost immediately, quantities of "U.S. Rifle, Cal. .30, M1" were on their way across the Atlantic, and those guns are the subject of an article by noted M1 Garand historian Scott Duff starting on p. 42. The "British Garands" have an interesting history but the importance of arming the British at that time is made clear by the fact that the rapidly growing U.S. Army itself did not have sufficient numbers of the then-new M1 Garands. Winston Churchill wrote in Their Finest Hour: "When the ships from America approached our shores with their priceless arms, special trains were waiting in all ports to receive their cargoes. The Home Guard in every county, in every village, sat up through the night to receive them. ... By the end of July we were an armed nation ... ."

Now, sadly, Britain is again a disarmed nation, where even Olympic athletes wanting to represent their country cannot own a handgun and where an act of self-defense can land a subject in jail. As with virtually all rifles and handguns, those likely few remaining guns sent to England in its time of desperate need have been confiscated and destroyed. Despite the very near enslavement of England being so close a mere six decades ago, the lesson of the false promises of gun control and personal disarmament were not learned.

reply to post by GunzCoty


Hold on a minute! There is nothing in the bill about gun registration. Background checks (universal or other) do NOT equate to gun registration. Show me where it's written that there will be a registry of guns owned by an individual. The bill doesn't even require a background check for private sales, unless the seller paid to advertise it or used a website (i.e. Armslist.com, gunauction.com, etc.). The thing is that a lot of those sellers want to do the sell through an FFL vice at a rest stop on the turnpike.

Again I say that this bill only requires what is already being required...Background checks. It's only purpose is to give the "gun grabbin' left" a warm and fuzzy so they can feel like they've accomplished something.