Woo Hoo!!! Obama Will Become First President to Spend $4T in One Year

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posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



This nation hasn't had a budget passed since early 2009. That was Bush's budget


Yes, that was Bush's budget...which blew up the deficit to 1.4 Trillion dollars.

Since then, Obama has cut that deficit to 973 Billion...with a projection of next year to 744 Billion.

www.usgovernmentspending.com...

Yes, the debt is increasing...that is not an "Obama" problem...that has been the case for a very long time with a very brief pause in that during Clinton's term. For anyone to act outrage that Obama is increasing the debt and calling it "Obama's debt" or claiming that it is how "Obama runs a country", is just out willful ignorance.
edit on 11-4-2013 by xedocodex because: (no reason given)


First off when has the CBO ever been right?

second, The deficit is going down because of an increase in taxes on all americans. Someone has to pay for obamas partys at the WH on a tuesday night.




posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

reply to post by xedocodex
 




No, I'm a logical adult that knows that NO ONE can wave a magic wand and make a 1.4 Trillion deficit completely dissapear in 4 years. I deal with reality and don't judge on black and white basis like you are...with you it is "defict = horrible job"...regardless of progress to eliminating that deficit.

Well, I can tell you one thing..... you wonderful, logical, super-dee-duper adult.....

You can't pay down ANY accumulated debt by continuing to spend more money than you have coming in.

Tell me that I am in a fantasy world. You need to get with reality.


Did I ever say we can start paying down our debt?

But should we not try to reduce our deficit? You have black and white thinking, and that isn't a good thing. For you it seems like it is either we eliminate our deficit and nothing else is worth it.

You are in a fantasy world...a world where reducing our deficit is somehow still a bad thing in your eyes...a world where you think you can magically wave a wand and get rid of our problems....a world where doing something to help reduce our deficit is apparently a bad thing.

Stop lying to yourself and just admit that Obama is moving the deficit in the right direction.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 


Yes, the debt is increasing...that is not an "Obama" problem...that has been the case for a very long time with a very brief pause in that during Clinton's term. For anyone to act outrage that Obama is increasing the debt and calling it "Obama's debt" or claiming that it is how "Obama runs a country", is just out willful ignorance.


OIC... (rubs paws together) ...and this is why I spent literal weeks learning the last budget proposal (laid down less than a year ago for timelines and relevance) down to the line items.


First, we need to look at revenue. The actual revenue...vs. to debts...and not the assumed or spun version of it. All the following comes either from the Historical tables, current budget proposal (at that time for fiscal 2013) or General Accounting Office reports regarding the same.


(Outlays Vs. Revenue 1997 - 2017)

Now one may notice...Bush ran the nation for a good, solid 7 1/2 years without breaking a half trillion. Despite the wars at their peak of spending and deployments and the Real Estate going into a tailspin in 2007. Next I believe we'll need to look at the Economic Assumptions programmed in to get the White House figures in future projections. It's a hoot....


(Economic Assumptions 2011-2022)

It's also critically important to appreciate what this debt IS and what it represents. It is NOT foreign debt for the vast majority of it. It's not Government or banker held debt at all. It's bonds, treasury notes, t-bills and a variety of other similar investment instruments that fund pensions, retirement funds and the stash Ma and Pa Kettle have in their wall safe and send Grandkids every year.


(US Financing and Debt 2011-2022)

and..for the most current numbers...

5.6 trillion out of nearly 17 Trillion held by other nations (Jan. 2012 - 2013)

We own this debt. All of us....and our parents, or in the case of us older folk, we personally will crash when it does. Retirements and Life Savings are funded and backed by this monster.....but that's something they work exceptionally hard at NOT highlighting for people. The reaction wouldn't be pretty for wide spread, deep understanding of that fact.

Next, we can look at what Obama is most definately not saying a thing about ...while taxes and more taxes are the answer and cuts just seem unthinkable, it would seem. Well... cuts outside of the petty targeting of Sequestration anyway. ('No White House tours for you little people...but we'll have our WH parties because we're special')


(Top 50 line item expenditures, ranked by absolute dollars on the 2017 line)

Notice in that above one, what sits on line #2? Simply reducing a deficit he largely created (Oh..Bush's TARP insanity kick started it..but THAT money and bump to the deficit was spent by early 2009. Stimulus fed much of the 09/10 debt) is FAR from enough. It doesn't even start to fix anything.

Finally, a budget table I like to call....the best summary of the bunch.


(Overall Federal Debt, broken down by type and % of GDP 1990-2017)

Of course, if you've been into the depths of the proposal immediately before this one, this will all be familiar. Given your positions and arguments though, I can only assume you haven't, in fact, put the obscene amounts of time into this which are required to KNOW ...and not just read other's opinions about the Federal WH Non-Budget proposals. After all, a budget never passed is a budget with no meaning beyond ..future intentions (as stated by the authors) or past performance (which kinda sucks).

It's an ugly ugly thing and no other way I can see to put it. The last guy was bad...and NO ONE with any intellectual honesty can argue that, IMO. This guy is worse. That too, is self evident to the intellectually honest. In my humble opinion. The numbers just don't lie ...especially when the White House itself produces them, as they did for most of these.

*I'll get to this budget in the same depth I did 2013 ..but not until the end of Semester next month. I couldn't take the endless hours away from term projects and course work....so 2013, which hasn't changed THAT much for time, will have to do for support to my position for now.

White House Budget - Historic Tables
Government Printing Office - Past Budgets 1996 - 2014



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by xedocodex

Originally posted by butcherguy

reply to post by xedocodex
 




No, I'm a logical adult that knows that NO ONE can wave a magic wand and make a 1.4 Trillion deficit completely dissapear in 4 years. I deal with reality and don't judge on black and white basis like you are...with you it is "defict = horrible job"...regardless of progress to eliminating that deficit.

Well, I can tell you one thing..... you wonderful, logical, super-dee-duper adult.....

You can't pay down ANY accumulated debt by continuing to spend more money than you have coming in.

Tell me that I am in a fantasy world. You need to get with reality.


Did I ever say we can start paying down our debt?

But should we not try to reduce our deficit? You have black and white thinking, and that isn't a good thing. For you it seems like it is either we eliminate our deficit and nothing else is worth it.

You are in a fantasy world...a world where reducing our deficit is somehow still a bad thing in your eyes...a world where you think you can magically wave a wand and get rid of our problems....a world where doing something to help reduce our deficit is apparently a bad thing.

Stop lying to yourself and just admit that Obama is moving the deficit in the right direction.
You may need to pull your head out of somewhere so you can see all the type clearly.

National debt= HUGE
The way to change the National debt is either:
-increase it
-pay it down
-have it remain the same

It is my theory that having a national debt that exceeds the GDP of the country is very bad, and that theory is held by many ECONOMISTS.

The way to have the accumulated debt go down is to pay it down. In order to do that, you have to take in more money than you spend.

I know that this is pretty tough stuff, but maybe if you take just one sentence at a time and digest it over several days, then try to tackle another......




Did I ever say we can start paying down our debt?

No, you didn't. I am hoping that you soon see that we need to... It may actually be too late now.
edit on 11-4-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by jibeho
 



Yes I do. Apparently you can't see the big picture beyond the annual deficit. Debt is an accumulation of Obama's flippin deficits year after year. That is how we will reach $20 trillion in debt. Gimme a break. Now you're just trolling.


So only Obama's deficits are responsible for the debt???



I'm just interested if you are willing to actually admit facts. Do you admit that Obama is reducing the deficits and is on track to cut the deficit in HALF compared to the 2009 deficit???


Put down the crack pipe before its too late

I'll try to keep this simple. Deficit spending during Obama’s four years in the White House (based on WH figures) was to be estimated at $5.170 trillion at this same time last year when he released his 4th budget. His deficit spending averaged close to 8.5% of GDP. That's more than all presidents going back to Eisenhower.

Not only do we have a spending problem, we also have a GDP problem...




Once again, deficits are annual and Obama has had a deficit spending problem that is leading to our nations massive accumulation of DEBT!! DEBT, DEBT, DEBT!!!!



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:50 AM
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I thought it valuable to add this. On my big budget thread where I broke all this down and sourced every last number, a member had taken the time to calculate out just what it WOULD take to pay off the national debt. I was so sick of the whole subject by then, I must say, I'm grateful to his efforts. I sure wasn't doing anything else with spreadsheets and numbers at that point.

What paying off the national debt would take

Keep in mind of course, this was quite a lot of debt ago, in raw numbers. Taking compounding interest into account, the figures are measurably worse by now.

He found that it would take a 500 billion surplus every year, without fail and held there until 2079 to come back to 00's on our national hole. 750 Billion in surplus held to 2044 would also do it...but again, consistent and with no changes or failure to meet at least that much for every single year. What do we all think the odds are of that ever happening?

I so very much wish other nations had similar problems....but in truth? We stand in a class almost by ourselves on this one. Again, note the date in the source citation below the graphic. This is a bit dated....but shows the contrast quite well.


(Source Site)

Hope that helps... 4 trillion for 2014 is insane on steroids...in my humble bunny opinion.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



First off when has the CBO ever been right?


So you are fine using CBO numbers if they back up your opinion (confirmation bias), but if they go against that opinion you claim they are wrong (cognitive dissonance).

Nice. At least you fully admit your faults.



second, The deficit is going down because of an increase in taxes on all americans. Someone has to pay for obamas partys at the WH on a tuesday night.


I'm going to have to ask you to provide some proof of all these increased taxes on "all americans".

And please don't try the "everyone knows this" tactic. Again...you are making a claim (out of your backend)...so please go ahead and back that claim up.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by camaro68ss
 



First off when has the CBO ever been right?


So you are fine using CBO numbers if they back up your opinion (confirmation bias), but if they go against that opinion you claim they are wrong (cognitive dissonance).

Nice. At least you fully admit your faults.



second, The deficit is going down because of an increase in taxes on all americans. Someone has to pay for obamas partys at the WH on a tuesday night.


I'm going to have to ask you to provide some proof of all these increased taxes on "all americans".

And please don't try the "everyone knows this" tactic. Again...you are making a claim (out of your backend)...so please go ahead and back that claim up.


I never use CBO numbers so i dont know what your talking about? you like to put words in peoples mouths, thats a bad habbit.

please see link below. Are you that out of touch to not notice the 2% tax increase in your pay check starting January 1st 2013. whatever way you dice it, all workers are getting paid 2% less this year then last year due to taxes.

Everyone seemed to notice but you.

www.usatoday.com...
edit on 11-4-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-4-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-4-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



please see link below. Are you that out of touch to not notice the 2% tax increase in your pay check starting January 1st 2013. whatever way you dice it, all workers are getting paid 2% less this year then last year due to taxes.


The expiration of the temporary social security tax relief is NOT a tax increase. It is the exact same percent we have been paying for years...Obama passed a temporary relief during the peak of the recession to help people out and that temporary relief EXPIRED AS PLANNED.

You are going to have to try harder than that...your Social Security tax is not higher than before Obama was President...hence he did not RAISE the taxes.

Try again...or continue to lie yourself.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



It's an ugly ugly thing and no other way I can see to put it. The last guy was bad...and NO ONE with any intellectual honesty can argue that, IMO. This guy is worse. That too, is self evident to the intellectually honest. In my humble opinion. The numbers just don't lie ...especially when the White House itself produces them, as they did for most of these.


And you are focusing on political proposals. While the Republicans control the house, an "official" budget will not pass. What will happen is that Obama will release a political ideological proposal and the GOP will do the same (Ryan's budget). Neither have a chance of passing, both sides know this...but both sides need to present their case to their constiuents (this is what we want to do).

In the case of Obama's proposal from last year, the reason it got zero votes (something Republicans like yourself like to brag about) is because the House Republicans destroyed it with amendments that no Democrat would go on record voting for.

We agree on one very simple thing...the numbers do not lie...it is very very simple. The numbers show Obama is reducing the deficit despite the House Republicans not allowing an official budget to pass.

You are wasting your time "analyzing" fantasy budgets that are proposed for the purposes to demonstrate both sides political ideology. Neither side expects or would want their current proposals to pass 100% intact. I would think you would know this, but I guess not.

So you continue to waste your time in the fantasy of proposed budgets...I will use the real world data to support the fact that Obama continues to clean up Bush's garbage.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 



The way to have the accumulated debt go down is to pay it down. In order to do that, you have to take in more money than you spend.


So in order to do that...what is the best way to move towards that goal?

A) Decrease the deficit
B) Increase the deficit
C) Do nothing unless you can completely wipe out the deficit


Please choose the correct answer and then please tell me which one Obama has done the past 4 years.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by camaro68ss
 



please see link below. Are you that out of touch to not notice the 2% tax increase in your pay check starting January 1st 2013. whatever way you dice it, all workers are getting paid 2% less this year then last year due to taxes.


The expiration of the temporary social security tax relief is NOT a tax increase. It is the exact same percent we have been paying for years...Obama passed a temporary relief during the peak of the recession to help people out and that temporary relief EXPIRED AS PLANNED.

You are going to have to try harder than that...your Social Security tax is not higher than before Obama was President...hence he did not RAISE the taxes.

Try again...or continue to lie yourself.


its not a lie, taxes went up 2% for all in 2013. no matter how you dice it up. Obama let it expire and people today have less money in there paychecks this year then last year due to taxes.

Your so hard in the tank for ObaMao. The man partys on the tax payers dime. Hes a Community organizer. The man has no skills other than reading a teleprompter that his handlers type up for him
edit on 11-4-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by jibeho
 



Once again, deficits are annual and Obama has had a deficit spending problem that is leading to our nations massive accumulation of DEBT!! DEBT, DEBT, DEBT!!!!


I really don't know how much more simple I can make it for you.

Bush
FY 2007 - $161 billion
FY 2008 - $458 billion
FY 2009 - $1,413 billion
Obama
FY 2010 - $1,294 billion
FY 2011 - $1,300 billion
FY 2012 - $1,087 billion
FY 2013* - $973 billion
FY 2014* - $744 billion

Do you see a trend?

Do you see a cause?

Do you see anything at all?


History will prove you wrong. Your kids and grandkids will learn about how Obama pulled the country out of a recession and then cut the deficit he was handed in half (and more since he still has 4 more years to work on the problem). The high deficit wasn't all Bush's fault either...it was the recessions fault...that is just the facts.

I can't dumb it down for you anymore, here are the REAL numbers....deal with it.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



its not a lie, taxes went up 2% for all in 2013. no matter how you dice it up. Obama let it expire and people today have less money in there paychecks this year then last year due to taxes.

Your so hard in the tank for ObaMao. The man partys on the tax payers dime as children and the elderly go hungery.


Here are some facts for you.

www.ssa.gov...

The SS tax has been 6.2% for employees since 1990...what is the rate today???? You guessed it....6.2%.

Obama didn't RAISE the SS tax rate. He gave a temporary relief of 4.2% for employees for 1 year...he extended it 1 more year...and then it expired and went back to the normal 6.2%.

You have to be very dishonest with yourself to call that a tax increase...actuall, it is worse than that...you have to be completely illogical and desperate to call that a tax increase.

You are desperate trying to cling to your right wing talking points fed to you by the talking heads (deny it all you want, but you are one of the worst offending parrots on this site). Your use of silly name changes of Obama's name just proves how desperate and childish you are in your hate of him (btw, changing names like that is against the T&C, political trolling, just a heads up).

Show me an actual tax increase on all Americans from Obama. Meaning the tax is higher today than it was when Obama took office.

edit on 11-4-2013 by xedocodex because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by butcherguy
 



The way to have the accumulated debt go down is to pay it down. In order to do that, you have to take in more money than you spend.


So in order to do that...what is the best way to move towards that goal?

A) Decrease the deficit
B) Increase the deficit
C) Do nothing unless you can completely wipe out the deficit


Please choose the correct answer and then please tell me which one Obama has done the past 4 years.

It would help if you include the correct answer.

D) Stop deficit spending now.

You can cry all that you want that it is impossible....
But that doesn't make it so.

ETA: Obama didn't get it right either, I guess we can't expect you to know it.
edit on 11-4-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 



It would help if you include the correct answer.

E) Stop deficit spending now.

You can cry all that you want that it is impossible....
But that doesn't make it so.


So your real answer is that we should do nothing unless we can solve the problem 100% overnight...let's not even attempt to make the problem smaller. So silly.


But how about you show how it is possible.

Go ahead...give us the master plan...you seem to have it all figured out. Show us what you are going to cut and where...or show us where you are going to increase revenue.

It is so wonderful that you have all the answers to the countries problems...maybe you should run for office...but of course let's hear your proposal first so that you can use that as your campaign promise.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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edit on 11-4-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by xedocodex
 




So your real answer is that we should do nothing unless we can solve the problem 100% overnight...let's not even attempt to make the problem smaller. So silly.

No, my point is that your SOLUTION is not a solution.
Here is what you do...

Tax everyone per capita the amount that it would take to not just balance the budget, but create a surplus. After people see just how much it will cost them, they will love the across the board cuts that will need to take place.

Your answer is to spend more than we have, but to spend a little less each year.

REALITY CHECK!!!
Clinton and the Republican had the budget balanced (according to them) not that long ago. How did that work out? There was a projected surplus. Where's that at?

All the projected BS is just that. We need to tax more or spend less.... one or the other.

You want to say that it can't be done.

I say that it will be easier to do it as a plan than to wait until the collapse(that may at this point be inevitable anyway) occurs, at which point it will happen, and it will not be pretty.
edit on 11-4-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



so back in 09 the left raved that obama is "cutting taxes"

money.cnn.com...

Based on this news artical they were tax cuts! those taxes cuts expired and taxes went up. so how is that not called a tax increase?


Nope, try again...that article isn't talking about the Social Security tax holiday.

It is talking about specific tax credits that would be, again temporarily, given out. Most likely it was the "making work pay" tax credits, that was around the 2009/2010 timeframe.

The Social Security Tax holiday was for 2011 and 2012...not 2009. It seems you have no idea what you are talking about and are desperately looking things up as you go.

I would suggest you stop before you continue to look more mis-informed than you already have.

EDIT: I see you deleted your entire post, I guess you realized how wrong you were and instead of manning up...you tried to delete it.
edit on 11-4-2013 by xedocodex because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



And you are focusing on political proposals.


I'll just bet the Executive Branch of the United States Government would call their Fiscal Year Budget Proposal and request more than "political proposals". It generally forms the opening stage for the House.....back when the nation still passed budgets, anyway.


While the Republicans control the house, an "official" budget will not pass.


You're sure about that? I don't suggest Boehner is any solution...and I hated seeing him re-appointed as Speaker. Howdy Doody would have been better ...but he's 1/2 the Congressional leadership and problem.

Harry Reid: John Boehner’s Plan is ‘Dead on Arrival’ in Senate (2011)
Reid: No, I don’t plan to bring a budget to the floor this year (2012)
Reid’s Shrewd Plan: No Budget, No GOP Advantage (2013)


In the case of Obama's proposal from last year, the reason it got zero votes (something Republicans like yourself like to brag about) is because the House Republicans destroyed it with amendments that no Democrat would go on record voting for.


You do realize....the way this process works is for the House to make a budget, load it with their wish list and whatever they give tribute to from the President's proposal then either send it to the Senate for consideration or send it there for merging WITH the Senate's own version?

The bill then returns to the House (where ..THEN..they have the power for up/down and kill or live for a budget to the White House) ...If they don't accept it whole, then it goes to a conference committee of the Senate and House together to reconcile the differences before sending to the White House.

Unfortunately, nothing comes out of the Senate even when one WAS attempted and it's been made clear over the last couple years ....no one need bother with that much because the Senate under Reid will DOA the thing on the spot. No write up with their wish list to send back ......as again, this is designed to work ...Just a kill shot IF they get it to kill in the first place.

Politics here are running like a sewage leak from both sides of Capitol Hill.


We agree on one very simple thing...the numbers do not lie...it is very very simple. The numbers show Obama is reducing the deficit despite the House Republicans not allowing an official budget to pass.


Well, it's the least he can attempt....except (snaps fingers) Yeah.. there is that pesky 85 billion a month. As much as I too, wish that would go away (OH how I DO wish it would go away), simply leaving it off the budget numbers doesn't make the deficit suddenly shrink by the 1 trillion it's ADDING to existing projections. It just makes the projections blatantly dishonest.


You are wasting your time "analyzing" fantasy budgets that are proposed for the purposes to demonstrate both sides political ideology. Neither side expects or would want their current proposals to pass 100% intact. I would think you would know this, but I guess not.


You mean the same budget proposals which form the projections of deficit "reduction" you're using to attack everyone not of your some political leaning with? They seem workable for you?


So you continue to waste your time in the fantasy of proposed budgets...I will use the real world data to support the fact that Obama continues to clean up Bush's garbage.


Can you ever...just once perhaps...Link to any of the "real world data" you base your attacks on? You are quick to demand everyone on a thread spend whatever time it takes to support every last sentence they type ....Yet you never seem to support anything you say with more than your own typed interpretations on, we can only guess what, since you never show any of them.

Please do throw some of your own data into the ring you're fighting everyone in? We might get to a substantive discussion that way.





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