Homeless Tunnel/Camp closed by East Bottoms Kansas police

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posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by stars15k

If they are digging and living on public land, had a similar event happen, perhaps to the baby that apparently was living there, the local authorities would be sued for $$$, and the people who sued probably would win, whether they made the tunnel or not. It's a public nuisance, and should have (and probably had) been addressed and removed to prevent accidents from happening.




Hmm, I have seen this argument offered quite often.
Those that have the money are able to buy the top lawyers to represent them and basically buy justice.
Those with the least amount of money are at the mercy of the state.

Those homeless do not even have any money.

I did a google search for homeless and sued and all I got was people suing the homeless instead.

Show me some stats of homeless people suing, not just one or two, but to show that is indeed rampant, like many other law suits in this country.




posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


Sorry but homelessness is something that happens all over. Can you think of a place that would welcome them with open arms, providing shelter, food, medical care?
Moving people out of unsafe conditions is hardy TPTB continuing to trod on the already downtrodden.
It is the norm.
So is getting a job, saving money, and having a decent standard of living. If you can't do that....? I don't know what to do, but nobody else does either.
I cannot work myself. Illness prevents me. I do not get SSI; I have not asked for it, either although I worked for many years. My husband works, and I have what I need and lots of stuff I want.
I pay my taxes and obey all laws. If that is the norm, it works.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Well, they still do.
They are called many things in many countries, but nomads probably is the best description. But even nomads, people who live in tribes all over the world, and those that choose to "stay off the grid" have a means of living, whether hunter/gatherer, trade, herding, and subsistence gardening.
That is not what is being discussed. What is being discussed is what happened here in the US. My comment was to reflect only that.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte

IF this where the only case where the homeless were dispossessed and force to move on, I might buy that argument. However, TPTB have shown that any existence outside the "norm" will not be long tolerated.




This is what it is.
They do not want anyone independent of the system, but out there contributing somehow to the state.
Sounds like Russia and Communism, no lazing about, help out the motherland and work to get money to the top elite somehow.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by jacobe001
 


I used this in my Exfinity Google: lawsuits involving homeless vs city

I got 12,200,000 hits.
Many cities, for many reasons.
Take your pick.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:42 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by stars15k
Moving people out of unsafe conditions is hardy TPTB continuing to trod on the already downtrodden.

mankind didn't need to be policed in its living conditions for the majority of the history of this planet, so why does it need to be now. Did the government show up to close down cave dwellers homes for being unsafe thousands of years ago? Then they don't really need to do it today either. Did they drag mountain men down from their log cabins because they lived in a dangerous environment? Interfering with a mans ability to survive in this country goes against the fundamental tenets that this country was founded on long before banks, police departments, building codes, utilities, etc...


Originally posted by stars15k
It is the norm.

Only in the last 100 years.


Originally posted by stars15k
So is getting a job, saving money, and having a decent standard of living.

Only in the last 100 or so years. Prior to that, most people were involved in farming, which is basically the same hunter/gatherer lifestyle that humans have used to survive since the beginning. Survival BECOMES a full time job when you have to live in that lifestyle, and most of those who do, work much harder than those who have a “job”.

The truth is that our “owners” don't want you to be able to live without paying into their system now, and being a slave to them and their system.


Originally posted by stars15k
I cannot work myself. Illness prevents me. I do not get SSI; I have not asked for it, either although I worked for many years. My husband works, and I have what I need and lots of stuff I want.

I guess that you're saying that marrying well and having a spouse provide for you somehow makes you more deserving of a better lifestyle then those who work solely for their daily survival but cannot find gainful employment. I guess its a good thing that you aren't a single white male who stuck in a crappy jobless economy, or you'd be seeing things from quite a different perspective.


Originally posted by stars15k
I pay my taxes and obey all laws.

If you don't work, you don't pay taxes unless you are talking about capital gains on investments you have made.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by HumanitiesLastHope
 


Thanks, good to see you around again, and you are correct, our Government does not want Self Sufficient Citizens, because they might Toss Out The Whole Congress and bunch of Do Nothings if Self Sufficient Living was the "Norm" and were in control.

Onward!



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by jacobe001
 


I used this in my Exfinity Google: lawsuits involving homeless vs city

I got 12,200,000 hits.
Many cities, for many reasons.
Take your pick.


I did a search using your terms.

Did you take a look at the content of some of these lawsuits?
A lot of them involve lawsuits as counteractions against charges made against them from sleeping in public and then thrown in jail.

Also, some were lawsuits made by others with money (not homeless) when they had an agenda to benefit from said ordeal. The same ones throwing the lawsuits are also involved in other lawsuits to keep the money rolling in where the homeless were not involved

Then there are many in your search with the homeless being sued.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 06:01 PM
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Look at all the conservative members that whine about government intervention into peoples lives, praising the authorities for putting the boot to poor people. Hypocrites.
edit on 10-4-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by stars15k
 


Yes, You are FORTUNATE, and in my opinion a tad callous in your vision.
And No, I have yet to Live in a Cave, but should be able to on MY OWN LAND if I want without being labeled a terrorist or such.

And I really don't watch TV much for News, nor absorb the Whole Internet of News to Know All yet, but am working on it. I think I am well informed to voice the opinion I state which is

that America MAKES EXCUSES and Is Now giving the Homeless the shaft and a harder time than the Wall Street Bankers received.

I Work TWO Jobs, and may soon loose my house, because I fell $4000 behind, and am still making my payments, but can't catch up.Such is the Stagnant Living Wage for the Past 20 some or more years that I HAVE WORKED.

DO you think I have been helped, and I Don't like asking for help, nor will I BEG anymore from a System that is Corrupt and Unfeeling of MY HUMANITY.

I am a NUMBER to them and don't think it correct nor a way to treat humans,
Hand our or Not!

I am the kind of person that should be helped but Wells Fargo is GOD in the courts eyes, and who do you think the law will side with when a sheriff comes knocking on my front door to hand me eviction papers?

You Said:


What would happen to those buildings


WHAT? This is what you got from my Thread? Are you trolling ? Joking? or god forbid,, for REAL? Wow,
Are you really concerned for THE BUILDINGS,,, OMG! you are joking right? OMG OMG and I hate people who say OMG,,, but can't cuss,, OMG

Anyway, I am making other plans to Survive, and Yes it may deal with less than, "Normal" ways of survival. Yes, off grid, and maybe I should be able to opt out towards anyone being liable but ME if Lawsuits are the issue,, but I can't even do that,, CODE is GOD to the State. I am Not Free to Do as I please on my own land, much less being homeless doing as they please, I do understand that, and say we address it, not ridicule ones ability to Make it as a 'normal' citizen. You think people like being homeless? or Near eviction due to the SYSTEM being as it is, not ALL my Fault.

I really did Not understand this statement.


Should the people who have had jobs, saved money, paid their bills, and own things like homes continue to do so? Perhaps everyone should just have the basics of life given to them? Really? What country do you live in again?


Now if I follow you,,

YES EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE BASICS OF LIFE GIVEN TO THEM.

I said it,,
YES again,, YES everyone should have the Basic Maslov Needs met in this Country at least, but I say the whole Planet. Why should some have gold toilets to crap in and others, NOTHING. so,
I am not a bad person for saying,,,
YES EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE BASICS OF LIFE GIVEN TO THEM as a Start in LIFE,, what is wrong with that vision of the World.?

What is wrong with that,,,
being that you don't work and
someone is giving you the Basics of Life.

Lucky you,,
and again, Yes you are very fortunate.

Oh, I am down South,, in America, the Old United States.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 06:45 PM
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Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

There has been an attack lately on the homeless. It's illegal to feed them in some places now. They are getting ticketed for finding a bit of food in the garbage. When does it end?

Once upon a time I lived in Salem OR. I would go to Bob's Burger (I think that was the name) on their burger special days. You could get a cheeseburger for something like 30 or 40 cents. I would buy a big bag full of them and take them to the park and pass them out to whoever wanted one. We would all sit in a circle in the grass and eat together and talk. It was a good time that I still have fond memories of.

I have always had a soft spot for them, some of their stories were just terrible.

And, to think that my actions could be punishable by law these days in many places is a rather sobering thought.
edit on 10-4-2013 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Lazarus Short
The Kansas City, Missouri (NOT Kansas) police probably remember a few years ago, when part of the West Bottoms burnt because some homeless people started a fire in a vacant building to keep warm. Things of historical value were lost forever. The area looked like a war zone when the fire was over. BTW, the tunnels were up on the bluffs of the Northeast neighborhood, not in the East Bottoms. Cops do these things because they know that crime moves with the homeless. There's a lot of other bad things going on in the Northeast, but the homeless don't have the money for a bribe, if you know what I mean. KC always was a corrupt town, and maybe people like J. C. Nichols were just polishing a turd.

Edit: Back in the Dirty Thirties, people were also living in tunnels dug into the loess soil of the river bluffs. A vertical wall of the stuff is very stable, as the photo shows.
edit on 10-4-2013 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah


A) Crime moves with EVERY group. Homeless, poor, middle class, rich, white, black, religious, non religious, etc. But sometimes the poor and homeless have to resort to certain types of "crime" to survive. And the rich have to resort to certain types of crime to profit even more.

B) Fires start everywhere, accidentally, and are not exclusive to the homeless.

That said, people just want the homeless to "disappear," or at least become invisible, so they use whatever means they can to see that it happens.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
Now if I follow you,,

YES EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE BASICS OF LIFE GIVEN TO THEM.

At the very least, if people are making it on their own, leave them in friggen peace. You have the right in America to be left in peace and survive on your own. If we didn't have that right there would have been no settlers in this country.
Really, what makes this person:

Any different then this one:

Other then the rich want their cut of everyone's productivity now, and don't want to feel any guilt over their lifestyles. After all, the truth is that when you have a higher than average lifestyle, you're only getting that because you're making someone else have a lower one.


Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
I said it,,
YES again,, YES everyone should have the Basic Maslov Needs met in this Country at least, but I say the whole Planet. Why should some have gold toilets to crap in and others, NOTHING. so,
I am not a bad person for saying,,,
YES EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE BASICS OF LIFE GIVEN TO THEM as a Start in LIFE,, what is wrong with that vision of the World.?

Its all about the rich now, and the rich are made through exploitation of lower classes and cheap labor. The fact is the rich are not the job creators they wish to present themselves as, they are in fact the poverty creators.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


I really don't like Image of dragging a mountain man out of his cabin,,,,, Only because it has Happened right here in NC USA. But Loved the way you stated everything in your post. Right On target.

I started a thread about Turtle Island Preserve Shutdown by Building Codes and Eustace Conway It is Happening and NO ONE CARES.
He was living as a frontier person would in the 1800s,

Nope can't do that either.

Homeless
Self Sufficient
Need Not Apply to Live in America Anymore.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


The Question I ask, as someone who is trying to transition from Middle Class to Survival Class,, is Why is it Self Sufficient Living is Targeted as bad, and

Let us Not Forget all the Permits Required by our wonderful Nanny State Government,,, making sure I don't stub my toe..

Good Grief,, Just Leave me ALONE to do as best As I can,, I really am NOT ASKING FOR HELP... Just my Freedom to do as I wish IN AMERICA ,,, and yes,, ON MY OWN LAND

At Least Until they take it from me.



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
reply to post by defcon5
 


The Question I ask, as someone who is trying to transition from Middle Class to Survival Class,, is Why is it Self Sufficient Living is Targeted as bad, and

Let us Not Forget all the Permits Required by our wonderful Nanny State Government,,, making sure I don't stub my toe..

Good Grief,, Just Leave me ALONE to do as best As I can,, I really am NOT ASKING FOR HELP... Just my Freedom to do as I wish IN AMERICA ,,, and yes,, ON MY OWN LAND

At Least Until they take it from me.



The why has already been answered: you have to pay into the (government) system (in *some* measure) and you have to be dependent on the system (in *some* measure) or else the system fails (if everyone was self sufficient the government mechanism would collapse).

This is a reason why private property is a myth and one can never truly and independently live off the grid.

You will be forced into participation.

Somehow. :/



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by Liquesence
 


Forced Participation, that is correct.

So, lets say the Homeless in the article were innocent, just trying to survive some hard times,,, with Baby in hand.

sad sad sad



posted on Apr, 10 2013 @ 10:37 PM
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This supports the policy of people no longer being thought of as citizens just consumers. If you don't consume on the right scale then you must be moved along.
I don't know the whole story around this.but being homeless as a youth I know this will probably make the nights a little colder for those who had created a home to hang their hat for the evenings. (If these were indeed being truly used for the noble cause of housing those in need of shelter.



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 07:22 AM
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How about instead of empowering these folks to live in a tunnel or in the woods, we empower them to live within society?

A few months ago, I watched a documentary called Dark Days, by British film maker Marc Singer, about a homeless community which was living in an abandoned underground railway system in New York City. They were evicted from the tunnels, but offered subsidised housing and job assistance via vouchers for HUD assistance as part of relocating the group. Many agreed to be relocated, and were better off in the end. They had a home and a purpose back into their lives.

So, STOP feeling bad for these people and help them get a home, job, and much needed medical care. There are probibly organisations which help the homeless in your area, support them. The last thing the homeless need is your pitty.

To say that people are better off in the woods and not in their own homes is insane. Children don't belong in the woods...or tunnels. Not in this country. So instead of feeling sorry for them, people, help them! Put your money where your mouth is folks.

Homeless Task Force
Sheffeild Place



posted on Apr, 11 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Siberbat
How about instead of empowering these folks to live in a tunnel or in the woods, we empower them to live within society?

A few months ago, I watched a documentary called Dark Days, by British film maker Marc Singer, about a homeless community which was living in an abandoned underground railway system in New York City. They were evicted from the tunnels, but offered subsidised housing and job assistance via vouchers for HUD assistance as part of relocating the group. Many agreed to be relocated, and were better off in the end. They had a home and a purpose back into their lives.

So, STOP feeling bad for these people and help them get a home, job, and much needed medical care. There are probibly organisations which help the homeless in your area, support them. The last thing the homeless need is your pitty.

To say that people are better off in the woods and not in their own homes is insane. Children don't belong in the woods...or tunnels. Not in this country. So instead of feeling sorry for them, people, help them! Put your money where your mouth is folks.

Homeless Task Force
Sheffeild Place


It is actually thinking like this that is part of the problem. I don't pity anyone who is able to do what they have to do to survive, and even though I agree that we should Open up more means for those who wish to 'return' to 'society',, some, Rightly so, see Society as Not such a good thing.

Many want to BE IN THE WOODS, Nature, self sufficiently, but it is made hard and difficult by said society,,, See my post about Eustace Conway I referenced in previous post. What do you mean Children don't belong in the woods,, I understand the Tunnel remark,, but Woods, and Nature,, Yes they do Belong there, more than a ghetto in the city, scrapping by as State Sponsored Consumers. Many want to teach their children there is a different way than what presently passes for civilization in our society.
Our Society is shallow and Money Driven, turning children into Consumers for Big BIZ, more children need to be out in nature learning how to live WITHIN that System, not the artificial one created by modern society, it is much more healthy, even if it doesn't meet the CODE of how one builds, or lives a sustainable life.
So, if you mean giving a hand to help them learn to live a more Free and Natural life, I am with you, but if you mean to return to a ghetto and a McDonalds Job that will barely pay for your roof over your head,, I would prefer the woods myself.
But for those who wish to Return to Society, I agree a path should be made,, as I suggested in a previous post, there are a lot of Empty buildings that could be retro fitted to take in Everyone who wished to return. Those who wish to live by their wits and within Natures rule should be allowed to do so also without BIG SIS anD Brother stepping in to Save them.

Just my Opinion.





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